I want desperately to be able to process guitar in "real time" with PD.
I have a Sony VAIO laptop and Edirol FA-66 Firewire soundcard.
It seems that using Windows is not an option, since I get outrageously high audio latency with PD, and a search through the mail list archives suggests that the consensus is that this is unavoidable in Windows.
I'm trying to get the FA-66 working with Ubuntu, but I'm not quite smart enough to understand how to do this.
What I'm wondering is:
- What OS/hardware combinations have you found to result in low audio
latency with PD? 2. Isit possible to accomplish this with Ubuntu and the FA-66, or should I give up and try something else? 3. If it is possible with Ubuntu, are there other resources for figuring this out, other than stumbling through web forums that assume I understand more than I do?
Thanks for your help!
Joe
On Sun, 2008-03-30 at 12:30 -0700, Joe Newlin wrote:
I want desperately to be able to process guitar in "real time" with PD.
cool!
I have a Sony VAIO laptop and Edirol FA-66 Firewire soundcard.
It seems that using Windows is not an option, since I get outrageously high audio latency with PD, and a search through the mail list archives suggests that the consensus is that this is unavoidable in Windows.
definitely not true. it certainly depends on what you consider high latency. on windows with pd running on my built-in audio card, i could use a buffersize of 14ms (in the pd media dialog, didn't measure the actual round-trip). this might be too much for real-time processing a live signal. however, with the hdsp rpm soundcard i could go down to 3ms (still on windows). on linux (with old ubuntu dapper) i can go a bit lower with both cards. (128samples buffer for jack, when running on the hdsp without x-runs) without really knowing, i am tempted to say, that good hardware and well-written drivers are more latency critical than the os. on windows i had good experience with hdsp and motu cards.
I'm trying to get the FA-66 working with Ubuntu, but I'm not quite smart enough to understand how to do this.
not that i am an expert, but from what i heard, firewire audio seems to be harder to set up. don't know about the fa-66 in particular, but with a decent linux os (ubuntu gutsy) and no fear to compile the necessary driver yourself (freebob or.. what's its successor called again..?), quite a lot of the fw cards are supported nowadays (i heard that someone got a motu 824 card running).
What I'm wondering is:
- What OS/hardware combinations have you found to result in low audio
latency with PD?
ubuntu gutsy has a linux-rt package in its distro. setting up a system optimized for audio should be quite easy on gutsy (at least from my experience). check, if the new ffado driver (i think that's how it's called) supports your card. regarding decent audio hardware, i am pretty much in favor of the hdsp series. those are also pretty well supported under linux.
- Isit possible to accomplish this with Ubuntu and the FA-66, or
should I give up and try something else?
i just checked the ffado supported harware page and your card is listed: http://www.ffado.org/?q=devicesupport/list
- If it is possible with Ubuntu, are there other resources for
figuring this out, other than stumbling through web forums that assume I understand more than I do?
i never tried installing a ffado driver myself. personally, i would try to compile it myself. but probably you find an external repository for gutsy, that provides those drives as a package.
hope this helps.
roman
___________________________________________________________ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de
hi,
search the archive for low latency on windows (playing with priority). but of course i recommand you to switch to linux with a realtime kernel. i have a firepod (firewire soundcard - using freebob / ffado) and my latency is very low, it's around 7 ms.
this is how i start pd -nosleep -rt -audiobuf 64 -jack
jack audio connection kit (low latency for soundcard). you will need to play with priority in linux too (/etc/limits.conf - search the archive). i would recommand to uninstall or disable updatedb. use qjackctl to simplify your life.
pat
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Newlin" jtnewlin@gmail.com To: "pd-list" pd-list@iem.at Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 2:30 PM Subject: [PD] Best PD+OS/Hardware combinations for low audio latency?
I want desperately to be able to process guitar in "real time" with PD.
I have a Sony VAIO laptop and Edirol FA-66 Firewire soundcard.
It seems that using Windows is not an option, since I get outrageously high audio latency with PD, and a search through the mail list archives suggests that the consensus is that this is unavoidable in Windows.
I'm trying to get the FA-66 working with Ubuntu, but I'm not quite smart enough to understand how to do this.
What I'm wondering is:
- What OS/hardware combinations have you found to result in low audio
latency with PD? 2. Isit possible to accomplish this with Ubuntu and the FA-66, or should I give up and try something else? 3. If it is possible with Ubuntu, are there other resources for figuring this out, other than stumbling through web forums that assume I understand more than I do?
Thanks for your help!
Joe
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Hello, did you try to reduce buffer size of your soundcard and then reduce buffer size in pd, and set pd to realtime in windows task manager?
Also, did you try freebob+jackd+low-latency kernel combination in ubuntu?
Joe Newlin a écrit :
I want desperately to be able to process guitar in "real time" with PD.
I have a Sony VAIO laptop and Edirol FA-66 Firewire soundcard.
It seems that using Windows is not an option, since I get outrageously high audio latency with PD, and a search through the mail list archives suggests that the consensus is that this is unavoidable in Windows.
I'm trying to get the FA-66 working with Ubuntu, but I'm not quite smart enough to understand how to do this.
What I'm wondering is:
- What OS/hardware combinations have you found to result in low audio
latency with PD? 2. Isit possible to accomplish this with Ubuntu and the FA-66, or should I give up and try something else? 3. If it is possible with Ubuntu, are there other resources for figuring this out, other than stumbling through web forums that assume I understand more than I do?
Thanks for your help!
Joe
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Thanks for all the replies.
So far, in Windows: I tried setting the priority to Realtime in the Task Manager and setting the buffer size to "smaller" in the Control Panel settings for the Edirol soundcard, but could only get the "delay" in PD's audio settings down to 40 ms. Anything below that destroys the sound (in a bad way). And that's just for pure computer music, without even attempting to process a signal from the adc~.
I'll try the linux suggestions next...
JN
On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 12:30 PM, Joe Newlin jtnewlin@gmail.com wrote:
I want desperately to be able to process guitar in "real time" with PD.
I have a Sony VAIO laptop and Edirol FA-66 Firewire soundcard.
It seems that using Windows is not an option, since I get outrageously high audio latency with PD, and a search through the mail list archives suggests that the consensus is that this is unavoidable in Windows.
I'm trying to get the FA-66 working with Ubuntu, but I'm not quite smart enough to understand how to do this.
What I'm wondering is:
- What OS/hardware combinations have you found to result in low audio
latency with PD? 2. Isit possible to accomplish this with Ubuntu and the FA-66, or should I give up and try something else? 3. If it is possible with Ubuntu, are there other resources for figuring this out, other than stumbling through web forums that assume I understand more than I do?
Thanks for your help!
Joe
Hi List
i can imagine this was asked before......
i am on OSX and i was trying to go through pdmtl-abstractions i cam across
the mtx_* object which cannot be loaded...because it appears as
somethin like
how do i know which one is which ????
this question might concern many other libs i guess...
even ">~" or something might not load because of a similar issue
bye
Luigi
I am not 100% sure, but i think you need a library called hexloader to load these objects. (should load on startup with pd-extended. then mtx_* will know that it has to load äh... I think you can also try mtx_mul. marius.
Luigi Rensinghoff wrote:
Hi List
i can imagine this was asked before......
i am on OSX and i was trying to go through pdmtl-abstractions i cam across
the mtx_* object which cannot be loaded...because it appears as somethin like
how do i know which one is which ????
this question might concern many other libs i guess...
even ">~" or something might not load because of a similar issue
bye
Luigi
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Hi, thanks for your response...
i manages to get mtx_~ running by loading mtx_mul~first...
i was just wondering, about the hexloader external..
i read in the archice that there were some issues, taht it didnt work
any more
in more recet releases
does it work with pd 41-4 on a macbook ? I couldnt find it in svn....
quite strange
thanks luigi
Am 31.03.2008 um 01:51 schrieb marius schebella:
I am not 100% sure, but i think you need a library called hexloader to load these objects. (should load on startup with pd-extended. then
mtx_* will know that it has to load äh... I think you can also try mtx_mul. marius.Luigi Rensinghoff wrote:
Hi List
i can imagine this was asked before......
i am on OSX and i was trying to go through pdmtl-abstractions i cam across
the mtx_* object which cannot be loaded...because it appears as
somethin like
how do i know which one is which ????
this question might concern many other libs i guess...
even ">~" or something might not load because of a similar issue
bye
Luigi
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---------------------------------------<
Luigi Rensinghoff luigi.rensinghoff@freenet.de skype:gigischinke ichat:gigicarlo
Yeah this is annoying. I'm pretty sick of the way that libraries are managed in Pd right now. What I do for the 50 million separate iem-libs is to just dump them all in the /extra folder directly. Then they seem to work right. Kudos though to the pdmtl crew. They are doing the right thing with organization strategies: unifying the cruft and making things easy to understand. I am all for Pd-extended to adopt this method completely. It makes more sense to have a single use-based directory structure for externals and abstractions a la pdmtl. If devs can get over the ego shock of giving up their little cvs fiefdoms.
~Kyle
On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 6:51 PM, marius schebella < marius.schebella@gmail.com> wrote:
I am not 100% sure, but i think you need a library called hexloader to load these objects. (should load on startup with pd-extended. then mtx_* will know that it has to load äh... I think you can also try mtx_mul. marius.
Luigi Rensinghoff wrote:
Hi List
i can imagine this was asked before......
i am on OSX and i was trying to go through pdmtl-abstractions i cam across
the mtx_* object which cannot be loaded...because it appears as somethin like
how do i know which one is which ????
this question might concern many other libs i guess...
even ">~" or something might not load because of a similar issue
bye
Luigi
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Joe,
I also use an FA-66 on Ubuntu & Ubuntu Studio 7.10. There are many others using this combination. Although the firewire interfaces don't work straight out of the box, the required procedures are available in the Ubuntu forums.
From what I've seen, techniques in reducing latency under other audio apps with Ubuntu + FA-66 discussed there also apply to Pd.
-- David Shimamoto
I'd love to know specifically how you get the FA-66 to work on Ubuntu.
I'm not even to the point of tweaking latency in Ubuntu yet - I need to get the soundcard to work first.
Previous Ubuntu forum posts are not been helpful, but I've started one of my own to try to get answers there as well.
On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 3:27 PM, PSPunch shima@pspunch.com wrote:
Joe,
I also use an FA-66 on Ubuntu & Ubuntu Studio 7.10. There are many others using this combination. Although the firewire interfaces don't work straight out of the box, the required procedures are available in the Ubuntu forums.
From what I've seen, techniques in reducing latency under other audio apps with Ubuntu + FA-66 discussed there also apply to Pd.
-- David Shimamoto
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Joe Newlin a écrit :
I'd love to know specifically how you get the FA-66 to work on Ubuntu.
maybe if you give a try with ubuntu studio, you will get freebob working good with qjackctl and pd
I'm not even to the point of tweaking latency in Ubuntu yet - I need to get the soundcard to work first.
Previous Ubuntu forum posts are not been helpful, but I've started one of my own to try to get answers there as well.
On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 3:27 PM, PSPunch shima@pspunch.com wrote:
Joe,
I also use an FA-66 on Ubuntu & Ubuntu Studio 7.10. There are many others using this combination. Although the firewire interfaces don't work straight out of the box, the required procedures are available in the Ubuntu forums.
From what I've seen, techniques in reducing latency under other audio apps with Ubuntu + FA-66 discussed there also apply to Pd.
-- David Shimamoto
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Hi,
Joe Newlin a écrit :
Thanks for all the replies.
So far, in Windows: I tried setting the priority to Realtime in the Task Manager and setting the buffer size to "smaller" in the Control Panel settings for the Edirol soundcard, but could only get the "delay" in PD's audio settings down to 40 ms. Anything below that destroys the sound (in a bad way). And that's just for pure computer music, without even attempting to process a signal from the adc~.
The minimum asio buffer size of your firewire device needs to have half of the value in Puredata audio setting.
I'll try the linux suggestions next...
Linux will certainly make easier to try all features of PureData
JN
On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 12:30 PM, Joe Newlin jtnewlin@gmail.com wrote:
I want desperately to be able to process guitar in "real time" with PD.
I have a Sony VAIO laptop and Edirol FA-66 Firewire soundcard.
It seems that using Windows is not an option, since I get outrageously high audio latency with PD, and a search through the mail list archives suggests that the consensus is that this is unavoidable in Windows.
I'm trying to get the FA-66 working with Ubuntu, but I'm not quite smart enough to understand how to do this.
What I'm wondering is:
- What OS/hardware combinations have you found to result in low audio
latency with PD? 2. Isit possible to accomplish this with Ubuntu and the FA-66, or should I give up and try something else? 3. If it is possible with Ubuntu, are there other resources for figuring this out, other than stumbling through web forums that assume I understand more than I do?
Thanks for your help!
Joe
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
So far, in Windows: I tried setting the priority to Realtime in the Task Manager and setting the buffer size to "smaller" in the Control Panel settings for the Edirol soundcard, but could only get the "delay" in PD's audio settings down to 40 ms. Anything below that destroys the sound (in a bad way).
that is a known issue ... pd is using pablio on osx and windo$, which is unable to achieve decent latencies ... the devel_ branch contained a workaround for that, not sure about the recent vanilla release ...
I'll try the linux suggestions next...
good idea, the pd's audio driver access on linux is not as broken as on other platforms ...
t
Have you tried running Pd using Jack osx and Jack mode?
I can get latency down to 7ms without crackles - this is on a meager
old g4 powerbook
best
On 1 Apr 2008, at 09:18, Tim Blechmann wrote:
So far, in Windows: I tried setting the priority to Realtime in the
Task Manager and setting the buffer size to "smaller" in the Control Panel settings for the Edirol soundcard, but could only get the "delay" in PD's audio settings down to 40 ms. Anything below that destroys the sound (in a bad way).that is a known issue ... pd is using pablio on osx and windo$,
which is unable to achieve decent latencies ... the devel_ branch contained a workaround for that, not sure about the recent vanilla release ...I'll try the linux suggestions next...
good idea, the pd's audio driver access on linux is not as broken as
on other platforms ...t
-- tim@klingt.org http://tim.klingt.org
Silence is only frightening to people who are compulsively verbalizing. William S. Burroughs
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Have you tried running Pd using Jack osx and Jack mode?
pd's jack backend should perform way better than the coreaudio backend ...
I can get latency down to 7ms without crackles - this is on a meager
old g4 powerbook
7ms measured round-trip or setting in pd's audio dialog (which is merely a suggestion for the driver and iirc is completely ignored by the jack backend)
tim
-- tim@klingt.org http://tim.klingt.org
Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere Amiri Baraka
7ms measured round-trip or setting in pd's audio dialog (which is
merely a suggestion for the driver and iirc is completely ignored by the jack backend)
well i set the buffer size in Jack prefs and let Pd follow suit. But
either way its just better :)
tim
-- tim@klingt.org http://tim.klingt.org
Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere Amiri Baraka
with asio on windows vista and a phonic firewire console I can set pd buffer size to 4ms without sound crackles, and obviously the driver buffer is set to 2ms, like I said before, again, the soundcard driver must be half the size of pd buffer or less. Jack on windows isn't available yet.
Tim Blechmann a écrit :
Have you tried running Pd using Jack osx and Jack mode?
pd's jack backend should perform way better than the coreaudio backend ...
I can get latency down to 7ms without crackles - this is on a meager
old g4 powerbook7ms measured round-trip or setting in pd's audio dialog (which is merely a suggestion for the driver and iirc is completely ignored by the jack backend)
tim
-- tim@klingt.org http://tim.klingt.org
Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere Amiri Baraka
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Joe Newlin -
Kyle Klipowicz -
Luigi Rensinghoff -
marius schebella -
Patrice Colet -
patrick -
PSPunch -
Roman Haefeli -
Si Mills -
Tim Blechmann