Hello List,
So few days later and after a lot of tests and support from several people, thanks to all of them, this is my current and temporary conclusion.
Pd Vanilla 0.54.0 is not compatible with my HP laptop DV8-1190ef (14 years old with CPU i720Q 1st Gen) and its configuration running under Windows 10 22H2 64-bit when Pd Vanilla 0.53.2 is fully functional as well as the latest Purr Data 2.19.3.
After having made a new summer in-depth cleaning of my PC, I retest the portable versions of Pd Vanilla (see here attached 2 screen captures).
Pd 0.53.2 = fully functional, but
Pd 0.54.0 = still not functional at all.
As reported in my previous emails (CrashReport), it seems there is an issue with the Windows module ntdll.dll (announced as falling module) or at least the communication between Pd Vanilla 0.54.0 and this module.
If I remember well, Lucas has suggested this could be linked to the new 64-bit windows build using the lower-latency WASAPI audio system in place of the older MMIO.
Now I will wait for the next Pd 0.54.1 for making new tests.
Im really pleased for those who are able to run Pd 0.54.0 on their Windows 10 machines.
Best,
Joseph Gastelais
De : Linux ROUEN [mailto:linux.rouen@free.fr] Envoyé : samedi 8 juillet 2023 03:34 À : 'Pd-list' Objet : HELP: Pure Data Vanilla v.0.54-0 under Windows 10 22H2 64-bit is not running!
Hello Pd List,
Under Windows 10 22H2 64-bit, the previous 3 versions 0.53.0, 0.53.1 and 0.53.2 of Pure Data Vanilla were working okay, but not the latest 0.54.0 version!
I tried today to update to it using the pd-0.54-0.windows-installer.exe file from Millers site but after the installation trying to launch it nothing happens.
Installation procedure (with antivirus disabled):
Uninstall Pd 0.53.2: okay
Install pd-0.54-0.windows-installer.exe: everything went well
Launch Pd 0.54.0: nothing happens!
Uninstall Pd 0.54.0: okay
Reinstall pd-0.53-2.windows-installer.exe: but lot of errors which was
not the case previously!
- Launch Pd 0.53.2: its opening?!
See the attached zip file for the error messages.
Uninstall Pd 0.53.2: okay
Reinstall pd-0.54-0.windows-installer.exe: but now a lot of errors like
with 0.53.2 reinstallation!
- Launch Pd 0.54.0: still nothing happens!!
See the attached zip file for the error messages.
See also the attached Pd Bin & Font zip file for the folders content.
Any idea what is going wrong with Pd 0.54.0 installation and now also with Pd 0.53.2 reinstallation?
Everything seems to be broken!
Thanks,
Joseph Gastelais
If I remember well, Lucas has suggested this could be linked to the new 64-bit windows build using the lower-latency WASAPI audio system in place of the older MMIO.
WASAPI has been introduced in Windows Vista, so I can't imagine how it would be a problem on a Windows 10 machine. Also, "pd.com -noprefs -noaudio" failed although it wouldn't execute any audio backend code.
Again, the only real way to solve this mystery would be to run Pd in a debugger. If are interested to dig deeper, you would need to install Msys2 (https://www.msys2.org/), then I could send you a Pd with debug symbols.
Christof
On 11.07.2023 03:30, Linux ROUEN wrote:
Hello List,
So few days later and after a lot of tests and support from several people, thanks to all of them, this is my current and temporary conclusion.
Pd Vanilla 0.54.0 is not compatible with my HP laptop DV8-1190ef (14 years old with CPU i720Q 1st Gen) and its configuration running under Windows 10 22H2 64-bit when Pd Vanilla 0.53.2 is fully functional as well as the latest Purr Data 2.19.3.
After having made a new summer in-depth cleaning of my PC, I retest the portable versions of Pd Vanilla (see here attached 2 screen captures).
Pd 0.53.2 = fully functional, but
Pd 0.54.0 = still not functional at all.
As reported in my previous emails (CrashReport), it seems there is an issue with the Windows module “ntdll.dll” (announced as “falling module”) or at least the communication between Pd Vanilla 0.54.0 and this module.
If I remember well, Lucas has suggested this could be linked to the new 64-bit windows build using the lower-latency WASAPI audio system in place of the older MMIO.
Now I will wait for the next Pd 0.54.1 for making new tests.
I’m really pleased for those who are able to run Pd 0.54.0 on their Windows 10 machines.
Best,
Joseph Gastelais
*De :*Linux ROUEN [mailto:linux.rouen@free.fr] *Envoyé :* samedi 8 juillet 2023 03:34 *À :* 'Pd-list' *Objet :* HELP: Pure Data Vanilla v.0.54-0 under Windows 10 22H2 64-bit is not running!
Hello Pd List,
Under Windows 10 22H2 64-bit, the previous 3 versions 0.53.0, 0.53.1 and 0.53.2 of Pure Data Vanilla were working okay, but not the latest 0.54.0 version!
I tried today to update to it using the ‘pd-0.54-0.windows-installer.exe’ file from Miller’s site but after the installation trying to launch it nothing happens.
Installation procedure (with antivirus disabled):
Uninstall Pd 0.53.2: okay
Install ‘pd-0.54-0.windows-installer.exe’: everything went well
Launch Pd 0.54.0: nothing happens!
Uninstall Pd 0.54.0: okay
Reinstall ‘pd-0.53-2.windows-installer.exe’: but lot of errors which
was not the case previously!
- Launch Pd 0.53.2: it’s opening?!
See the attached zip file for the error messages.
Uninstall Pd 0.53.2: okay
Reinstall ‘pd-0.54-0.windows-installer.exe’: but now a lot of errors
like with 0.53.2 reinstallation!
- Launch Pd 0.54.0: still nothing happens!!
See the attached zip file for the error messages.
See also the attached Pd Bin & Font zip file for the folders content.
Any idea what is going wrong with Pd 0.54.0 installation and now also with Pd 0.53.2 reinstallation?
Everything seems to be broken!
Thanks,
Joseph Gastelais
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
On 10/07/2023 22:42, Christof Ressi wrote:
If I remember well, Lucas has suggested this could be linked to the new 64-bit windows build using the lower-latency WASAPI audio system in place of the older MMIO.
WASAPI has been introduced in Windows Vista, ...
Joseph this was meant as in -- there are new drivers hence more devices, then their indexes had changed and now Pd is trying to load an incorrect device for the previous index and Pd is unable to start -- but we now know this is not the case.
I'm following this one so it will be great if you install msys2 and we get a back-trace from the debugger.
also I'm using this cpu:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/47341/intel-core-i5520m...
which is almost the same age as yours:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/43122/intel-core-i7720q...
--
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
On 10/07/2023 23:43, Lucas Cordiviola wrote:
I'm following this one so it will be great if you install msys2 and we get a back-trace from the debugger.
Joseph here are instructions on how to get the debugger back-trace. You have the steps which are rather simple and a link to get Pd-0.54-0 with debug symbols.
https://nc.nubegris.com.ar/index.php/s/JwEjrPDEyP53oL7
We want to solve this mystery :)
--
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
Hello Lucas and Christof,
How can I refuse a so honest proposition for running Pd in a debugger under Windows 10! At over 70 years old I'm always ready for learning new technics and methods, as long as I'm understanding what I'm doing. 😛 So, I will install MSYS2 + associated and will process further.
Understood for WASAPI.
After having a first look at the docs, I have some preliminary comments / questions:
- MSYS2 (https://www.msys2.org/)
The Install instructions for Windows seem to be okay.
- Debugger back-trace
(https://nc.nubegris.com.ar/index.php/s/JwEjrPDEyP53oL7) The described steps seem to be for Arch Linux or fork distributions and not for Windows?
- Link to get Pd-0.54-0 with debug symbols
(https://nc.nubegris.com.ar/index.php/s/eKrTbHE4iyqAgAg) Opening this pd-0.54.0-debug.zip (10.5 MB) file looks like for Windows. But, for example, its Tcl/Tk and Wish files versions are '85' when in the portable version of Pd 0.54.0 they are in '86' version? So at least for them we will not compare apples with apples!
- Any other things you can think about for helping a new player in the
Debug area...
I also want to contribute solving this mystery! 😉
Thanks. Best, Joseph Gastelais
Hi,
At over 70 years old I'm always ready for learning new technics and methods, as long as I'm understanding what I'm doing. 😛
Big respect! I hope I will be the same at your age :)
- Debugger back-trace
(https://nc.nubegris.com.ar/index.php/s/JwEjrPDEyP53oL7) The described steps seem to be for Arch Linux or fork distributions and not for Windows?
Msys2 uses pacman as their package manager.
But, for example, its Tcl/Tk and Wish files versions are '85' when in the portable version of Pd 0.54.0 they are in '86' version? So at least for them we will not compare apples with apples!
I don't think that the GUI plays any part in this, as you got the same problems with "pd.com -nogui"
Christof
On 11/07/2023 07:01, Linux ROUEN Normandie wrote:
- Debugger back-trace
(https://nc.nubegris.com.ar/index.php/s/JwEjrPDEyP53oL7) The described steps seem to be for Arch Linux or fork distributions and not for Windows?
It's for Windows. MSYS2 brings a lot of "ported-for-Windows" Linux commands: from https://www.msys2.org/wiki/MSYS2-introduction/
"MSYS2 uses a port of*pacman*(known from Arch Linux) for package management"
- Link to get Pd-0.54-0 with debug symbols
(https://nc.nubegris.com.ar/index.php/s/eKrTbHE4iyqAgAg) Opening this pd-0.54.0-debug.zip (10.5 MB) file looks like for Windows. But, for example, its Tcl/Tk and Wish files versions are '85' when in the portable version of Pd 0.54.0 they are in '86' version? So at least for them we will not compare apples with apples!
Wish85 and Tk85 are just the GUI portion that Pd make use of. When you build Pd for Windows (https://puredata.info/docs/developer/WindowsMinGW) these 2 apps are extracted from https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/blob/master/msw/pdprototype.tgz and placed in the built app. this is useful for us so that we can easily test our compiled Pd. On Miller's builds he places a newer versions of tcl/tk . Also interesting is that the 85 versions from pdprototype.tgz are 32-bit apps (we needed them like that also to test on older 32-bit only Windows (as many XP machines). But since Pd and the GUI talk via a loopback local network connection the thing works anyway,
- Any other things you can think about for helping a new player in the
Debug area...
I also want to contribute solving this mystery! 😉
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
Hello Lucas and Christof,
Thanks for your suggestion and help regarding MSYS2 and associated.
Both Good and Bad News from the Windows 10 front!
- Debugging the unzipped "pd-0.54.0-debug.zip" with MSYS2 MINGW64 and GDB is working fine, No Bug for launching both Pd and one of my MIDI patch! See my here attached screen capture.
- But trying to run the unzipped "pd-0.54-0.msw.zip" is still not working at all when in the meantime the unzipped "pd-0.53-2.msw.zip" is working like a charm.
I'm really and totally lost! (Unfortunately) my electronic music students mainly use Windows, so I do need during this summer to fix this issue on my laptop.
Do you have any other clever idea?
Best, Joseph Gastelais
On 11/07/2023 13:50, Linux ROUEN wrote:
I'm really and totally lost! (Unfortunately) my electronic music students mainly use Windows, so I do need during this summer to fix this issue on my laptop.
try downloading again the zip package from Miller's site an test it.
if the problem persist you can use the "Debuged" app that is running fine for you (for your classes).
but then if you have time to backup all your files, do it and format your Windows partition and reinstall the OS. there might be some weird combo from Antivirus or blaklisted stuff on your system.
as a recap of your situation:
- your first mail included screen-shots of the installer being unable to write files and you told us later that you only have an "admin" account.
- this is strange: the only thing i can think of is that Pd was running when you tried to install a newer version.
- this could have trigger the OS to blacklist the app (this is pure speculation)
If I where you i'll backup all my files and reinstall the OS.
if the problem persists we have no idea whats going on and hope pray no other Win10 user get into a similar situation.
Lucarda
--
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
Hello Lucarda,
I don't think I have to visit my church for praying to find the solution to my bloody Windows issue!
Now, your speculation is fully RIGHT! 😉 Since my July 11th email (with your excerpt here below) I have sent 2 other emails going into your direction. Unfortunately they are not arrived to the Pd-List. I need to investigate why and as currently I'm not on my production PC I can't have access to them.
So to summarize them in few words:
- Effectively I have discovered a very weird behavior of my Windows 10
Avast Antivirus (free version).
- Sometime, not always, Avast is silently blacklisting apps which is the
case here with at least "Pd.com and/or Pd.exe v.0.54.0". It was not the case with Pd v.0.53.2 or previous ones.
- But also sometime when this is not done silently and you create an
exception for a given app, Avast continue to manage it as a threat ignoring your exception declaration.
- I need to further investigate it when I will have again access to my
production PC.
Why when I'm trying to explain and explain again and again to my relatives, friends and students that the free ("libre" in French) & opensource GNU/Linux distributions are much better (technically and philosophically) and safer than the proprietary Microsoft Windows, most of them don't want to listen to me!? The bad habits have a very hard time! 😛
Thanks again,
Best, Joseph Gastelais
Le 12/07/2023 à 01:58, Lucas Cordiviola a écrit :
On 11/07/2023 13:50, Linux ROUEN wrote:
I'm really and totally lost! (Unfortunately) my electronic music students mainly use Windows, so I do need during this summer to fix this issue on my laptop.
try downloading again the zip package from Miller's site an test it.
if the problem persist you can use the "Debuged" app that is running fine for you (for your classes).
but then if you have time to backup all your files, do it and format your Windows partition and reinstall the OS. there might be some weird combo from Antivirus or blaklisted stuff on your system.
as a recap of your situation:
- your first mail included screen-shots of the installer being unable to write files and you told us later that you only have an "admin" account.
- this is strange: the only thing i can think of is that Pd was running when you tried to install a newer version.
- this could have trigger the OS to blacklist the app (this is pure speculation)
If I where you i'll backup all my files and reinstall the OS.
if the problem persists we have no idea whats going on and hope pray no other Win10 user get into a similar situation.
Lucarda
--
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas. _______________________________________________ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
On 13/07/2023 13:46, Linux ROUEN Normandie wrote:
I don't think I have to visit my church for praying to find the solution to my bloody Windows issue!
Hi Joseph,
Well, we don't have to put the blame on Windows or Avast. I think your issue was triggered by installing the app while the app was running. This can easily happen to anyone. So I took notes of your issues and included this on the devs to-do list for the installer:
- not allow the installer to do it's job if any Pd is running.
- include a tool to erase Pd preferences.
- include a tool to set which app (in case you have more than 1 Pd installation) gets associated to open .pd files.
- some stuff related to the winget pkg.
I hope much of this will make it into the next release.
:)
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
Thank you Lucas! 😎
Best, Joseph Gastelais
Le 18/07/2023 à 03:22, Lucas Cordiviola a écrit :
On 13/07/2023 13:46, Linux ROUEN Normandie wrote:
I don't think I have to visit my church for praying to find the solution to my bloody Windows issue!
Hi Joseph,
Well, we don't have to put the blame on Windows or Avast. I think your issue was triggered by installing the app while the app was running. This can easily happen to anyone. So I took notes of your issues and included this on the devs to-do list for the installer:
- not allow the installer to do it's job if any Pd is running.
- include a tool to erase Pd preferences.
- include a tool to set which app (in case you have more than 1 Pd installation) gets associated to open .pd files.
- some stuff related to the winget pkg.
I hope much of this will make it into the next release.
:)
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas. _______________________________________________ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
-
Christof Ressi -
Linux ROUEN -
Linux ROUEN Normandie
-
Lucas Cordiviola