Hi,
my laptop trio Endphase (http://www.endphase.net/) is going to work out our archived recordings, so that we get decent stereo versions to spread around. Since many of them are multichannel (from 4 to 8) in different setups (not necessarily only 2d around the audience), we'll be searching for efficient ways to try to "convert" the original audio to stereo. That is, having a good as possible compromise between both situations, knowing that a 100% simulation is impossible.
This is a field that I don't know that well, and we're still in the beginning of the work. Does anyone has any suggestions to which approaches are best? Ambisonics, phase inversion, hrtf, home medicine? Are any of these also available through Pd? (it would be nice to mix/spacialize the materials in Pd)
Thanks,
João Pais
Hi Joao,
It sounds like you need a stereo auralization of various multichannel
diffusion pieces.
One option is to make a binaural down-mix of the multichannel
material, although that has the restriction of only sounding good on
headphones. This would still leave a decision on where to place sound
sources, and how to do the auralization (i.e. how to do the room
simulation, etc).
For stereo speaker playback, there is not really a canonical
solution. Again though, you could do an auralization of the intended
diffusion to an intermediate format like ambisonics, then do a stereo
decode. This will not leave as much of a spatial impression as a
binaural mix, but it will be more portable to different listening
setups.
Either way there are still various (essentially aesthetic/artistic)
decisions to make about the specification of the auralization.
So you might find that the best results for generalised playback
(headphone or speakers), is just to make aesthetic decisions and do a
multichannel downmix.
At any rate, if you want to explore ambisonic and/or binaural down- mixes, the IEM tools for doing this are all in Pd extended.
For more info on the binaural stuff, you can try the patches and
publications here:
http://iem.at/Members/noisternig/bin_ambi
The patches are windows only, but they can be reconstituted from the
IEM objects available for other platforms inside Pd Extended (or SVN).
cheers Nick
Nicholas Mariette
Researcher Audio and Acoustics group LIMSI-CNRS, Orsay, France http://www.limsi.fr/Scientifique/aa/ http://www.limsi.fr/Scientifique/ps/thmsonesp/SonEspace http://soundsorange.net nicholas.mariette@limsi.fr
On Jul 20, 2009, at 3:30 PM, João Pais wrote:
Hi,
my laptop trio Endphase (http://www.endphase.net/) is going to work
out our archived recordings, so that we get decent stereo versions to
spread around. Since many of them are multichannel (from 4 to 8) in different setups (not necessarily only 2d around the audience), we'll be
searching for efficient ways to try to "convert" the original audio to stereo.
That is, having a good as possible compromise between both situations,
knowing that a 100% simulation is impossible.This is a field that I don't know that well, and we're still in the beginning of the work. Does anyone has any suggestions to which
approaches are best? Ambisonics, phase inversion, hrtf, home medicine? Are any of these also available through Pd? (it would be nice to mix/spacialize
the materials in Pd)Thanks,
João Pais
-- Friedenstr. 58 10249 Berlin (Deutschland) Tel +49 30 42020091 | Mob +49 162 6843570 jmmmpais@googlemail.com | skype: jmmmpjmmmp
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
It sounds like you need a stereo auralization of various multichannel
diffusion pieces.
if that's the official name for it, yes, right.
Either way there are still various (essentially aesthetic/artistic)
decisions to make about the specification of the auralization.So you might find that the best results for generalised playback
(headphone or speakers), is just to make aesthetic decisions and do a
multichannel downmix.At any rate, if you want to explore ambisonic and/or binaural down- mixes, the IEM tools for doing this are all in Pd extended.
I should had said before: it would be good if the codings would be
suitable for as many playback situations as possible, as they would also
be heard in that way (cd, radio, stream, headphones, ...). But if for
example the headphone version is particularly good, we might think about
doing a version for it.
Also some words about the movements, which I didn't say first: there are
several types of movements (each performance is different), sometimes
circles, sometimes irregular ones, sometimes (very) slow, sometimes fast,
... They're not indispensable to the rest of the musical discourse going
on, but they integrate with it [so we think]. So it would be nice to have
at least an impression of the space, as it won't be *that* precise.
Thanks for your suggestions, I'll look into them later.
On Jul 20, 2009, at 4:07 PM, João Pais wrote:
It sounds like you need a stereo auralization of various
multichannel diffusion pieces.if that's the official name for it, yes, right.
Not sure about being "official" but Auralization is at least a term
used in academic discussion and acoustics consultation for some years
(maybe 15-20 years at least now?), meaning the scientific simulation
of sound sources in real space with real acoustics.
e.g. see: http://auralization.tkk.fi/EAAsymposium09
where you can find some publications, also some software and other
stuff.
... that said, in audio engineering, it'd be a down-mix that you're
after - and that can be done however you feel like it!
cheers Nick
Either way there are still various (essentially aesthetic/artistic)
decisions to make about the specification of the auralization.So you might find that the best results for generalised playback
(headphone or speakers), is just to make aesthetic decisions and do
a multichannel downmix.At any rate, if you want to explore ambisonic and/or binaural down- mixes, the IEM tools for doing this are all in Pd extended.
I should had said before: it would be good if the codings would be
suitable for as many playback situations as possible, as they would
also be heard in that way (cd, radio, stream, headphones, ...). But
if for example the headphone version is particularly good, we might
think about doing a version for it.Also some words about the movements, which I didn't say first: there
are several types of movements (each performance is different),
sometimes circles, sometimes irregular ones, sometimes (very) slow,
sometimes fast, ... They're not indispensable to the rest of the
musical discourse going on, but they integrate with it [so we
think]. So it would be nice to have at least an impression of the
space, as it won't be *that* precise.Thanks for your suggestions, I'll look into them later.
Hi Joao,
Nick has mentioned the IEM Ambisonics library for binaural rendering.
I have updated my old website at the IEM (http://iem.at/Members/noisternig/bin_ambi
), which now points to the current release of the library provided
by Thomas Musil. The packages are pre-compiled for Win-XP / OS-X and
should be easy to install and also contain Pd.
Linux users might find the source files in the packages, but we
recommend to check-out them out from the corresponding folders at SVN http://sourceforge.net/projects/pure-data/
! We will publish a collection linked to pure-data@sourceforge at
the IEM's open source repository http://sourceforge.net/projects/iem/
soon.
Cheers,
Markus
On 20 juil. 09, at 15:45, Nicholas Mariette wrote:
Hi Joao,
It sounds like you need a stereo auralization of various
multichannel diffusion pieces.One option is to make a binaural down-mix of the multichannel
material, although that has the restriction of only sounding good on
headphones. This would still leave a decision on where to place
sound sources, and how to do the auralization (i.e. how to do the
room simulation, etc).For stereo speaker playback, there is not really a canonical
solution. Again though, you could do an auralization of the
intended diffusion to an intermediate format like ambisonics, then
do a stereo decode. This will not leave as much of a spatial
impression as a binaural mix, but it will be more portable to
different listening setups.Either way there are still various (essentially aesthetic/artistic)
decisions to make about the specification of the auralization.So you might find that the best results for generalised playback
(headphone or speakers), is just to make aesthetic decisions and do
a multichannel downmix.At any rate, if you want to explore ambisonic and/or binaural down- mixes, the IEM tools for doing this are all in Pd extended.
For more info on the binaural stuff, you can try the patches and
publications here: http://iem.at/Members/noisternig/bin_ambiThe patches are windows only, but they can be reconstituted from the
IEM objects available for other platforms inside Pd Extended (or SVN).cheers Nick
Nicholas Mariette
Researcher Audio and Acoustics group LIMSI-CNRS, Orsay, France http://www.limsi.fr/Scientifique/aa/ http://www.limsi.fr/Scientifique/ps/thmsonesp/SonEspace http://soundsorange.net nicholas.mariette@limsi.fr
On Jul 20, 2009, at 3:30 PM, João Pais wrote:
Hi,
my laptop trio Endphase (http://www.endphase.net/) is going to work
out our archived recordings, so that we get decent stereo versions to
spread around. Since many of them are multichannel (from 4 to 8) in
different setups (not necessarily only 2d around the audience), we'll be
searching for efficient ways to try to "convert" the original audio to
stereo. That is, having a good as possible compromise between both situations,
knowing that a 100% simulation is impossible.This is a field that I don't know that well, and we're still in the beginning of the work. Does anyone has any suggestions to which
approaches are best? Ambisonics, phase inversion, hrtf, home medicine? Are any
of these also available through Pd? (it would be nice to mix/ spacialize the materials in Pd)Thanks,
João Pais
-- Friedenstr. 58 10249 Berlin (Deutschland) Tel +49 30 42020091 | Mob +49 162 6843570 jmmmpais@googlemail.com | skype: jmmmpjmmmp
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Georg Holzmann has some great patches here: http://grh.mur.at/misc/PdSpatialization.tar.gz
-
Ichabod -
João Pais -
Markus Noisternig -
Nicholas Mariette