Hello,

I would really be opposed to bendable patch cords, or especially the segmented patch cord style in Max/MSP. It seems to me these types of connections reinforce bad habits, as users are not encouraged to modularize, economize, etc. and they tend to lead to the most unreadable (and uneditable!) "spider webs" in complex projects. PD's style forces one to be explicit, but causes some extra (and IMO, worthwile) work to make an ergonomic interface for performers. I think the inclusion of send and receive symbols in the graphical objects is one of the best ideas in PD, because it allows one to easily keep the engine hidden and out of sight, and obviates much of the need for hideable or segmented cables.

Also, I have had students who came from Max/MSP who created the kind of huge, sprawling, everything-in-one-window kind of patch they got used to doing in Max. We found that by hiding more and more things in subpatches and abstractions, we could cut down on CPU quite a bit. I assume this means tcl/tk redraws entire windows often, but I don't know the details. At any rate, I don't think introducing the segmented patch cables would necessarily result in an explosion of unreadable patches, but I think the "clunkiness" of PDs interface encourages thoughtfulness and efficiency, which are invaluable in pedagogical situations.

What I would welcome would be a richer set of GUI tools in vanilla, as sometimes knobs are more preferable to sliders, or you may want a 2d-slider for tying two dimensions to each other, but these are less important than the [pow~], [abs~], etc. objects mentioned in an earlier thread.

Thanks,

Matt

hey david!

if you want to collect some ideas how a real usable and pretty interface for a modular environment could look like, have a look at http://synthmaker.co.uk/about.html it's got bendable links... you never have to leave edit mode... and have a look at how ALL interface elements as bitmap & vector knobs, sliders or wavedraw display consist of modules themselve. the environment is off course not as powerful as pd, but the interface is just a joy to work with.

greetings, fabb

On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 6:04 AM, David Golightly davigoli@gmail.com wrote:

...

Hey PD gurus,

I used to use PD a lot but haven't much for the last year or more. Now I'm getting back in to it and finding that the UI is just really clunky and awkward and makes the workflow really painful. I build website UIs professionally in JavaScript (see http://www.zillow.com/search/RealEstateSearch.htm for an example of a UI I built, everything except the Flash). I also have on-the-job experience in design and usability, as well as coding skills in Python and some exposure to C, C++ and Java. I'd like to start pitching in specifically on GUI and chrome improvements in the trunk for the core PD UI. How would I go about getting started? I noticed the page at http://puredata.info/dev/GuiIdeas has some outstanding requests from the community, it seems like the best thing is to start there. I'd also like to integrate with the developer community to ensure that UI improvements (specifically, better keyboard support and smoothing out some glaring dialog/chrome issues) don't have a negative impact on realtime audio performance.

Best,

David