Thanx for your reply... GEM seems to be an absolutely exciting plateform, as I tried messing around for several days. You told me about PDP and GridFlow. Shame is that I'm only working on Windows XP. So, sorry for PDP. But if I'm right I can run GridFlow under windows, no ? Arf...
Message du 23/11/04 à 10h41 De : "Johannes M Zmoelnig" A : tboulanger@voila.fr Copie à : pd-list@iem.at Objet : Re: [PD] Framestein and GEM " wrote:
Hi listers ! Hmmm, as everybody knows, PD is build for making really interesting audio stuff as video. So I had a look at GEM and Framestein and I have to say that I'm quiet lost :
- Are GEM and Framestein utterly apart one from each other ?
yes
I mean is it possible to merge GEM objects with Framestein ones and conversely ?
no
- As for the rendering window : I noticed that GEM came with create/destroy objects and that Framestein came with its own rendering window : is it possible to have a unique window which displays both GEM and Framestein patches ?
no
- And in term of possibilities : eventually, which one of Framesteind and GEM is the most powerfull tool ?
this is a question i cannot answer.
Are they both specialised in a certain area ?
yes Framestein is about image-processing (pixel-oriented, 2D) Gem is about computer-graphics (vector-oriented, 3D, with some possibilities to do pixel-processing)
These questions may appear to be stupid but I have to hear about your opinions... (the goal : creating a video clip to accompaign a track I've done recently, an interactive one to say...)
well, all pd-packages that have something to do with graphics (3D, 2D, video,...) can be used to create "a video clip to accompaign a track". you could even do this in plain pd (remember franks tgb-patch), it is basically a matter of aesthetics.
as for power of Framestein and Gem: Framestein is Windos-only; Gem is available on win, lin and osX (older versions are available for irix too) I have no idea how "big" Framestein is, but Gem is contains about 400 objects (half of which are rather useless if you don't know how to program openGL in a patcher language) Framestein allows multiple "frames" (even embedded into a patch), Gem has only one single window (which will change in the future...) Framestein needs your CPU, Gem needs a hw-accelerated graphics card. Framestein allows you to use Photoshop-plugins, Gem does not (but has some (un)common fx built in)
PS : about PDP, is it a customed-video oriented version of PD ? I think this one doesn't exist on XP)
no, pdp is just another library to do graphics. it is (basically) oriented on doing video-processing, and is highly optimized. if you have ever heard of "forth", go pdp. if not, there is a library called pidip (which is an extension to pdp) which has some high-level video-effects plus a lot of other cool stuff (like streaming, ...)
and best: pdp/pidip are available (only) on linux+osX
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
do not forget GridFlow.
Thanx for your support !
Gem, Framestein, pdp and GridFlow are really completely different things, although all are dedicated to produce some "graphical" output.
I think the biggest difference is not in possibilities but rather in the "way of thinking". so you should look at all of them carefully and then decide which fits you and your need best.
mfg.a.sdr IOhannes
Faites un voeu et puis Voila ! www.voila.fr
what's the best ext to play in-memory samples? it should work on linux and windows. i can't use arrays because it stores samples as 32bit floats so it takes up too much memory. it should be possible to play samples at arbitrary speed - setting speed or doing it a la tabread4~ would be ok. and is there a good timestretching/pitchshifting ext/abstraction? all solutions for pd i've found so far work with fixed windowsize. is there one w/ adaptive windowsize? ciao, sven.
sven wrote:
what's the best ext to play in-memory samples? it should work on linux and windows. i can't use arrays because it stores samples as 32bit floats so it takes up too much memory. it should be possible to play samples at arbitrary speed - setting speed or doing it a la tabread4~ would be ok.
ah, i have forgotten about this
about a year ago i wrote a small library "iem16": 16bit versions of delay~s (del16write~, del16read~, vd16~) and tables (table16, tab16read~, tab16write~,...). i had written it, because i had to do delay-based timeshifting of 4 channels over long periods of time on a laptop with only 512MB of ram. since 16bit is good enough for CD i though it was tolerable to use it for such things.
i have checked it into the CVS (externals/iem16) now. i will put the binaries online (ftp.iem.at)
mfg.a.sdr IOhannes
sven wrote:
what's the best ext to play in-memory samples? it should work on linux and windows.
Frank Barknecht and I spent some time working with his [fluid~] external last weekend. It uses the libfluidsynth library, so you'll have to check if there's a windoze version of that.
The cool thing is that it uses SoundFonts, so you can load a large collection of samples into memory and easily manage them with channel and controller messages. There are also generators to control loop points, start points, envelope and various effects such as filters and reverb.
It is all tied into General MIDI, so you have to accept some limitations, such as fixed MIDI notes [no microtones!] and the like. You also have to create a SoundFont of the samples you want to use [ie, by using Swami or Smurf on Linux], so it's not too good for quick experimentation.
We found that I could easily emulate the functions of my Particle Chamber granulator abstraction with [fluid~], with the added benefit that libfluidsynth takes care of scaling the polyphony.
I'll be spending some time with [fluid~] once Frank or I have found a way to squeeze a few more features out of it [exporting sample size and name would be a good start!] to make some granular abstractions which could be used for pitchshifting and timestretching as well, although perhaps not as "scientific" as you might like.
Or you could have a look at the SoundFont spec and play around with the generator functions yourself with [fluid~]. I think the generator-enabled version Frank made over the weekend is in the externals CVS now, under Footils.
good luck! d.
-
" <tboulanger＠voila.fr> -
derek holzer -
Johannes M Zmoelnig -
sven