hi all,
i have a firepod 1010 firewire soundcard, i am using linux / jack. the new motherboard doesn't have firewire. what to do?
also will i be able to lower the latency even more if i have a faster cpu? or it's really the firewire / soundcard limitation? what it the lowest latency soundcard for linux available on the market? i might consider to make a move towards usb.
pat
You can buy a firewire interface, I think they're pretty cheap nowadays.
I think one advantage of firewire is that USB has some overhead associated with managing the bus from the OS.
This part I'm a little shaky on, so someone please tell me if I'm wrong-- if you're trying to deal with low latency with USB it's impossible to tell the OS to prioritize traffic going over USB to the connected USB audio interface but at the same time deprioritize traffic going over that same USB hub to other connected devices. So a crappy driver for a usb laser mouse can cause problems even if everything is working perfectly with the audio interface. But I may be completely misremembering what I learned about USB awhile back...
On a somewhat related note-- I think there is still some BIOS stuff related to power management (esp. on laptops) that are not affected by even the real time kernel patches. Those latencies that the BIOS introduces are just a result of however well (or poor) the stuff was written that ships with the machine you're using. If it was written very inefficiently then you're just stuck with it no matter what OS you use. Yet another in a long list of reasons to have control over the software that runs in your machine!
-Jonathan
----- Original Message -----
From: patrick puredata@11h11.com To: Pure Data list pd-list@iem.at Cc: Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 7:17 PM Subject: [PD] firewire is dead?
hi all,
i have a firepod 1010 firewire soundcard, i am using linux / jack. the new motherboard doesn't have firewire. what to do?
also will i be able to lower the latency even more if i have a faster cpu? or it's really the firewire / soundcard limitation? what it the lowest latency soundcard for linux available on the market? i might consider to make a move towards usb.
pat
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On 16/10/12 01:17, patrick wrote:
hi all,
i have a firepod 1010 firewire soundcard, i am using linux / jack. the new motherboard doesn't have firewire. what to do?
You talk about motherboard, so I assume this is a desktop machine, I think you can easily get a firewire card and hook your soundcard to that.
I will spear you my rant about the situation of external sound card for linux laptop users (many electronic musicians IMHO) as it would only be full of bitterness and frustration.
Lorenzo.
Am 16.10.2012 um 10:47 schrieb Lorenzo Sutton lorenzofsutton@gmail.com:
I will spear you my rant about the situation of external sound card for linux laptop users (many electronic musicians IMHO) as it would only be full of bitterness and frustration.
I'd be interested in a recommendation for that (external soundcard for linux laptops).
"I'd be interested in a recommendation for that (external soundcard for linux laptops)."
I have a Lenovo x61s (s/h £180, best laptop I've ever had) with an RME Hammerfall (v.1 [s/h £150]). It's great - stable, easy to setup, 8IO + the software HDSP_conf/mixer works well (and seems to have done for years). Firewire via pcmcia card: Got to love redundant technologies.
I also really like that nothing lights up on the RME unless there's a fault.
Very recommended.
Julian
On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 5:11 PM, Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com wrote:
"I'd be interested in a recommendation for that (external soundcard for linux laptops)."
I have a Lenovo x61s (s/h £180, best laptop I've ever had) with an RME Hammerfall (v.1 [s/h £150]). It's great - stable, easy to setup, 8IO + the software HDSP_conf/mixer works well (and seems to have done for years). Firewire via pcmcia card: Got to love redundant technologies.
Is that a standard firewire card or RME's proprietary "quasi firewire"?
András
Sorry, yes of course, it's the "quasi firewire".
On 16 October 2012 16:48, András Murányi muranyia@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 5:11 PM, Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com wrote:
"I'd be interested in a recommendation for that (external soundcard for linux laptops)."
I have a Lenovo x61s (s/h £180, best laptop I've ever had) with an RME Hammerfall (v.1 [s/h £150]). It's great - stable, easy to setup, 8IO + the software HDSP_conf/mixer works well (and seems to have done for years). Firewire via pcmcia card: Got to love redundant technologies.
Is that a standard firewire card or RME's proprietary "quasi firewire"?
András
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On Tue, 2012-10-16 at 17:48 +0200, András Murányi wrote:
On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 5:11 PM, Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com wrote: "I'd be interested in a recommendation for that (external soundcard for linux laptops)."
I have a Lenovo x61s (s/h £180, best laptop I've ever had) with an RME Hammerfall (v.1 [s/h £150]). It's great - stable, easy to setup, 8IO + the software HDSP_conf/mixer works well (and seems to have done for years). Firewire via pcmcia card: Got to love redundant technologies.Is that a standard firewire card or RME's proprietary "quasi firewire"?
The protocol is from what I know not at all firewire, only the plugs and the cable are.
Roman
Le 16/10/2012 11:03, Max a écrit :
Am 16.10.2012 um 10:47 schrieb Lorenzo Sutton lorenzofsutton@gmail.com:
I will spear you my rant about the situation of external sound card for linux laptop users (many electronic musicians IMHO) as it would only be full of bitterness and frustration.
I'd be interested in a recommendation for that (external soundcard for linux laptops).
hello,
here are link that I find looking for the same information :
http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/current_audio_gear http://wiki.linuxmusicians.com/doku.php?id=hardware_matrix
cheers c
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On 16/10/2012 11:03, Max wrote:
Am 16.10.2012 um 10:47 schrieb Lorenzo Sutton lorenzofsutton@gmail.com:
I will spear you my rant about the situation of external sound card for linux laptop users (many electronic musicians IMHO) as it would only be full of bitterness and frustration.
I'd be interested in a recommendation for that (external soundcard for linux laptops).
i use a focusrite saffire 24 dsp, the slightly "bigger" version of the saffire pro 24 that is listed as "experimentally supported" since 2009.
some months ago, a bit of code was added to also recognize the saffire 24 dsp. while the "dsp part" (VRM) is fully unsupported, the audio interface itself works nicely for me.
in this case the ffado device support database status is a bit outdated.
the interface is hooked up to a thinkpad T400 running debian. i cannot remember the no-xrun latency achieved out of the top of my head but iirc something > 5ms.
i also heard good things about the edirol fa-66 and echo but never tried them myself.
hth,
Tee
I did some research about new laptops, and its far easier to find laptops with expresscard ports than laptops with fw ports. My laptop has one of these awfully fragile-looking tiny fw ports AND an expresscard port, so i can use a firewire-expresscard port adapter whenever i don't feel like using the tiny port (live situations typically). It has the benefit to protect the motherboard at some degree if someone trips on the fw cable : hopefully the only thing that get destroyed is the adapter itself, and not the motherboard. Most of the times when the cable is pulled hard, either the cable is unplugged or the adapter gets out of its port without any damage.
On 16/10/2012 10:47, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
On 16/10/12 01:17, patrick wrote:
hi all,
i have a firepod 1010 firewire soundcard, i am using linux / jack. the new motherboard doesn't have firewire. what to do?
You talk about motherboard, so I assume this is a desktop machine, I think you can easily get a firewire card and hook your soundcard to that.
I will spear you my rant about the situation of external sound card for linux laptop users (many electronic musicians IMHO) as it would only be full of bitterness and frustration.
Lorenzo.
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 2012-10-16 01:17, patrick wrote:
hi all,
i have a firepod 1010 firewire soundcard, i am using linux / jack. the new motherboard doesn't have firewire. what to do?
just yesterday i was searching for some expansion card and discovered a whole bunch of PCI-cards that provide firewire. those were bought when firewire was not yet standard on all motherboards....and i couldn't help thinking (and smiling) that they will become handy soon, as motherboard manufacturers start dropping ieee1394 support again (well, unfortunately those cards are PCI, and newer mobos tend to not have PCI-slots anymore)
so to answer your question: there should be plenty of expansion boards (PCI, PCIe, ...) that give you ieee1394 even if your motherboard does not support it.
fgm asdr IOhannes
good, i was a little bit worried about using a pci-e firewire adapter for audio in linux / jack.
about latency, yesterday i used jdelay to measure the round-trip of my latency, at 44100 with 128, 3 = 17 ms (jack reports 8 ms). at 96000 i get 7 ms, BUT my cpu seems to be working hard and i get glitches. so the question is:
with a faster cpu, can i lower the latency?
On 10/16/2012 02:45 PM, patrick wrote:
good, i was a little bit worried about using a pci-e firewire adapter for audio in linux / jack.
about latency, yesterday i used jdelay to measure the round-trip of my latency, at 44100 with 128, 3 = 17 ms (jack reports 8 ms). at 96000 i get 7 ms, BUT my cpu seems to be working hard and i get glitches. so the question is:
with a faster cpu, can i lower the latency?
yes =)
i.e. I have to use huge buffer sizes (so more latency) because of my old Intel Core Duo 1.6Ghz (great thinkpad x60 with expresscard slot for my FW card though)...
Ive used expresscard a lot with jack for live stuff, the ones with TI chip are assumed the best for this, but i'v gotten perfect results with an other brand aswell
i did have the little firewire port on my laptop but it broke down twice..useless
On 10/16/2012 02:45 PM, patrick wrote:
good, i was a little bit worried about using a pci-e firewire adapter for audio in linux / jack.
about latency, yesterday i used jdelay to measure the round-trip of my latency, at 44100 with 128, 3 = 17 ms (jack reports 8 ms). at 96000 i get 7 ms, BUT my cpu seems to be working hard and i get glitches. so the question is:
with a faster cpu, can i lower the latency?
yes =)
i.e. I have to use huge buffer sizes (so more latency) because of my old Intel Core Duo 1.6Ghz (great thinkpad x60 with expresscard slot for my FW card though)...
actually it was still called smartcard.. either how i use it still with edirol fa101 never failed me, rocksolid performance with jack
On 10/16/2012 6:11 PM, yvan volochine wrote:
On 10/16/2012 02:45 PM, patrick wrote:
good, i was a little bit worried about using a pci-e firewire adapter for audio in linux / jack.
about latency, yesterday i used jdelay to measure the round-trip of my latency, at 44100 with 128, 3 = 17 ms (jack reports 8 ms). at 96000 i get 7 ms, BUT my cpu seems to be working hard and i get glitches. so the question is:
with a faster cpu, can i lower the latency?
yes =)
i.e. I have to use huge buffer sizes (so more latency) because of my old Intel Core Duo 1.6Ghz (great thinkpad x60 with expresscard slot for my FW card though)...
Jack + fa101? I have never, ever got this to give me anything other than glitchy, unusable audio!
actually it was still called smartcard.. either how i use it still with edirol fa101 never failed me, rocksolid performance with jack
On 10/16/2012 6:11 PM, yvan volochine wrote:
On 10/16/2012 02:45 PM, patrick wrote:
good, i was a little bit worried about using a pci-e firewire adapter for audio in linux / jack.
about latency, yesterday i used jdelay to measure the round-trip of my latency, at 44100 with 128, 3 = 17 ms (jack reports 8 ms). at 96000 i get 7 ms, BUT my cpu seems to be working hard and i get glitches. so the question is:
with a faster cpu, can i lower the latency?
yes =)
i.e. I have to use huge buffer sizes (so more latency) because of my old Intel Core Duo 1.6Ghz (great thinkpad x60 with expresscard slot for my FW card though)...
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no kiddin? been using it for about 5years with both jack1 and 2 i've been mainly used pd and lots of midi-controllers though
and only at 44kz maybe that is the issue ?
i meant to say cardbus-firewire ofcourse (smartcard ?!)
grtz Rob
Jack + fa101? I have never, ever got this to give me anything other than glitchy, unusable audio!
actually it was still called smartcard.. either how i use it still with edirol fa101 never failed me, rocksolid performance with jack
On 10/16/2012 6:11 PM, yvan volochine wrote:
On 10/16/2012 02:45 PM, patrick wrote:
good, i was a little bit worried about using a pci-e firewire adapter for audio in linux / jack.
about latency, yesterday i used jdelay to measure the round-trip of my latency, at 44100 with 128, 3 = 17 ms (jack reports 8 ms). at 96000 i get 7 ms, BUT my cpu seems to be working hard and i get glitches. so the question is:
with a faster cpu, can i lower the latency?
yes =)
i.e. I have to use huge buffer sizes (so more latency) because of my old Intel Core Duo 1.6Ghz (great thinkpad x60 with expresscard slot for my FW card though)...
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
.
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András Murányi -
batinste -
Cyrille Henry -
Ed Kelly -
IOhannes m zmoelnig -
Jonathan Wilkes -
Julian Brooks -
Lorenzo Sutton -
Max -
patrick -
Rob Bothof -
Roman Haefeli -
Tee -
yvan volochine