I am not going to turn this into a distro battle, I just want
new users to have as much info as they need. Frank I very much respect all the stuff you have done (and the help I have personally received from you), but I worry about your advice for people who may just be starting out with linux. Everything that follows is OPINION! Its meant as a point of discussion from someone who is currently going through some new user linux stuff.
The problem is: Why install all these things in the first place, if you never need it?
How would a first time linux user know what they need? How was I
supposed to know that I may want Xfs but not Nfs? How do I know what Cups is? I suppose a new user could start bare bones (which I tried with debian) and gradually build up what they needed, but for someone coming mostly from windows (and I'm not an idiot, really I promise, I even set up a AIX based small local network many many years ago) trying to get all of the dependencies straight is a nightmare, and that's just for a base machine, not one tricked out for realtime sound work.
I am sure I will read this mail in a year or 2 and laugh at
myself for my naivety, but for now I really STRONGLY encourage new/casual linux users who want to do more hardcore sound stuff to explore things like CCRMA (http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/software/ ). Fernando has done an incredible job of making things pretty straightforward for new users, who have no idea what they are doing, and old users, who just want to make music and could care less about what init level they are running at.
Running CCRMA out of the box certainly doesn't stop you from
tweaking, and making changes. What it does do is give the new user a safety net. It gives them the ability to explore linux, without having their machine fall apart around them. For me its been much easier to strip away the things that I don't need from Fedora Core (gnome, and the gnome window manager stuff for starts) than it was to build a system up around a barebones Debian install.
m.
Scanned on 25 Feb 2004 19:42:43 Scanning by http://erado.com
Hallo,
Matthew Allen hat gesagt: // Matthew Allen wrote:
I am not going to turn this into a distro battle, I just want new users to have as much info as they need. Frank I very much respect all the stuff you have done (and the help I have personally received from you), but I worry about your advice for people who may just be starting out with linux.
In my mails I still am referring to Ed Kelly's disappointment with Red Hat 9. As he wrote earlier, that he upgraded his old RH 7.2 to 9, I draw the conclusion, that he's no newbie anymore. I do think, that Debian is different enough from Redhat, that someone, who is fed up with Redhat - his subject was "RH9 is rubbish", could give it a try - as well as some of the other, more bare bones distributions like Gentoo.
I didn't intend to give this as advice to a linux newbie. In my earlier mail I wrote "you might want to go hardcore and install Debian". (Although I do think, that Debian is a good choice for newbies, as well, but that's a whole other story more appropriate for linux-audio-user). If I sounded like dissing other distributions or other opinions, I'd like to apologize. This never was my intention.
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__
I was recently searching for my dream distri because I felt Mandrake which I run was to bloated. I tried the hardcore way with Gentoo but gave up. I got a Kernel running and had to start over to build the XServer, but I would like to have some concerts and exhibitions in THIS year too.
The pure, 'woody' way of installing Debian failed on my little barebonebox, to much drivers missing (nvidia stuff etc). BUT there is some other, more recent ways to get a Debian running. The livesystem Knoppix is often mentioned firstplace but it was not easy to install on harddisk and it is a bit to mixed up for being a real Debian. But the derieved Kanotix-distribution I can recommend, a livesystem which can result in a running Debian on your harddisk.
Cheers,
Malte