hello i am trying to come up with some examples to use in a short workshop with 11 year old kids using maths to make sound and music (music in very loose terms that is). i would love to use pd for this. it can be literally anything, as long as they can easily see a relation between some basic math concepts (number sequences, patterns, etc.) and the sounds they hear while interacting with the patches. the goal is not to have the kids write the patches, but to make them *play* with them.
does anyone have any ideas for this? useful, easy to understand math concepts that could be turned into little musical devices? any feedback will be greatly appreciated!
cheerio
what kind of math problems are you talking about?
basics like + , - , * , / , or more sphisticated
give me a glue, so i can find something out of my punch of work, couse
my math is also very basical
looking forward
der.brandt
Zitat von Joe potaxpotax@gmail.com:
hello i am trying to come up with some examples to use in a short workshop with 11 year old kids using maths to make sound and music (music in very loose terms that is). i would love to use pd for this. it can be literally anything, as long as they can easily see a relation between some basic math concepts (number sequences, patterns, etc.) and the sounds they hear while interacting with the patches. the goal is not to have the kids write the patches, but to make them *play* with them.
does anyone have any ideas for this? useful, easy to understand math concepts that could be turned into little musical devices? any feedback will be greatly appreciated!
cheerio
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On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 11:14 AM, brandt@subnet.at wrote:
what kind of math problems are you talking about?
it could be anything, but not too advanced, cause it's for young kids of course. some ideas i have:
- basic operations (+ - * / ) on rhythmic patterns
- something involving sequences/series (permutations, etc)
- nth term
give me a glue, so i can find something out of my punch of work, couse my math is also very basical
well that's no problem in this case i think! so is mine :p looking forward to your ideas!!
oh and thank you cody and mitchell for the suggestions!!
[pd twinkle-twinkle-or-something]
|
[expr $f1 ???] <- put operators and numbers here!
|
[pd some-oscillator~]
|
[dac~]
Or just have them use arbitrary binops in place of expr if you want to go that way.
In other words, give them a way to just hack away at a specific part
of the object chain, then you can go in a lot of different directions.
Like just showing them how + or - can change the key, to scaling the
melody with / and *, and then really hacking away at it with % and
random. You could do the same thing but in terms of rhythm (or
harmony, or texture).
Then have a contest to see who can get it to sound the furthest from the original melody. Exploit their natural inclinations to exploit their natural inclinations.
-Jonathan
--- On Wed, 3/23/11, Joe potaxpotax@gmail.com wrote:
From: Joe potaxpotax@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PD] math + music examples To: brandt@subnet.at Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2011, 10:43 PM On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 11:14 AM, brandt@subnet.at wrote:
what kind of math problems are you talking about?
it could be anything, but not too advanced, cause it's for young kids of course. some ideas i have:
- basic operations (+ - * / ) on rhythmic patterns
- something involving sequences/series (permutations, etc)
- nth term
give me a glue, so i can find something out of my
punch of work, couse my
math is also very basical
well that's no problem in this case i think! so is mine :p looking forward to your ideas!!
oh and thank you cody and mitchell for the suggestions!!
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Hi,
Joe wrote:
hello i am trying to come up with some examples to use in a short workshop with 11 year old kids using maths to make sound and music
Very basic : Multiply/divide a frequency by 2, get an octave up/down. Add/substract at the hertz level to tune/detune a sound. Show how notes don't have an equal size in a scale (without talking about 12th root). It's also a good time to introduce equal temperament and the damage done :). Add two or more sines to create a beating. (see A08.beating.pd)
Also get a acoustic instrument with you to prove it's not about computer magic. With a guitar you can show the different fret spaces and detune the instrument to produce nice beatings.
good luck with the new generation :)
I think good examples for kids would be simple math based sequencers. Either use a fixed set of pitches that are called by smaller numbers or use midi pitches, as those will be easier for kids to understand. I would start off the whole demonstration with frequencies though, and then introduce the midi pitches. Anyway, once you have a sequencer set up, you can alter the equations that are used to call the steps, use random numbers, only play the even numbers, use multiplication after the additive counter(make a simple counter - with f+1 and a modulus and put a multiply between the counter and the modulus then changing the multiply amount will give you different patterns.)
IMO, that would be the simplest thing to set up and for the kids to see the relation.
On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 8:47 PM, Joe potaxpotax@gmail.com wrote:
hello i am trying to come up with some examples to use in a short workshop with 11 year old kids using maths to make sound and music (music in very loose terms that is). i would love to use pd for this. it can be literally anything, as long as they can easily see a relation between some basic math concepts (number sequences, patterns, etc.) and the sounds they hear while interacting with the patches. the goal is not to have the kids write the patches, but to make them *play* with them.
does anyone have any ideas for this? useful, easy to understand math concepts that could be turned into little musical devices? any feedback will be greatly appreciated!
cheerio
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i don't think i explained the multiplication thing too well, so i just patched one up real quick.. this one just uses the counter to produce midi pitches, but you could certainly use it to call steps in a sequencer. I think this is cool, and it would be a simple and easy thing to explain to the kids mathematically.
On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 7:41 AM, Cody Loyd codyloyd@gmail.com wrote:
I think good examples for kids would be simple math based sequencers. Either use a fixed set of pitches that are called by smaller numbers or use midi pitches, as those will be easier for kids to understand. I would start off the whole demonstration with frequencies though, and then introduce the midi pitches. Anyway, once you have a sequencer set up, you can alter the equations that are used to call the steps, use random numbers, only play the even numbers, use multiplication after the additive counter(make a simple counter - with f+1 and a modulus and put a multiply between the counter and the modulus then changing the multiply amount will give you different patterns.)
IMO, that would be the simplest thing to set up and for the kids to see the relation.
On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 8:47 PM, Joe potaxpotax@gmail.com wrote:
hello i am trying to come up with some examples to use in a short workshop with 11 year old kids using maths to make sound and music (music in very loose terms that is). i would love to use pd for this. it can be literally anything, as long as they can easily see a relation between some basic math concepts (number sequences, patterns, etc.) and the sounds they hear while interacting with the patches. the goal is not to have the kids write the patches, but to make them *play* with them.
does anyone have any ideas for this? useful, easy to understand math concepts that could be turned into little musical devices? any feedback will be greatly appreciated!
cheerio
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On Wed, 23 Mar 2011, Joe wrote:
does anyone have any ideas for this? useful, easy to understand math concepts that could be turned into little musical devices? any feedback will be greatly appreciated!
[mod] and [div] are quite important concepts in music : you can use them to cut the time in measures and the measures into their subunits, or to cut the pitch space into octaves and smaller units.
for example, [mod 8] and [div 8] can turn a timescale of quaver index into a timescale of measure index + a number between 0 to 7 to select a quaver inside a measure. (unfortunately, [mod] works completely in ints, so you need something else if you need to play with fractions of quavers)
and when you take the number 55 to write "G4", you're using [mod 12] to get the 7 that means G, and [div 12] to get the 4 for the number of the octave.
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC
good one, Mathieu why is it that on this chart http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/notes.html 55 is G3, not G4?
On Thu, 24 Mar 2011, Joe wrote:
good one, Mathieu why is it that on this chart http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/notes.html 55 is G3, not G4?
Because I'm too lazy to do the [- 1] and I don't rely on my octave numbers being in sync with anyone else's.
MIDI's note number 0 is C in octave -1. It's not audible. MIDI has 10⅔ octaves, simply because for binary coding reasons they had 2*2*2*2*2*2*2 possibilities. There were already plenty of annoyingly-high notes in there, so they thought that they'd rather complement it with an unhearable octave. (!)
But Pd has no such restrictions and can use all sorts of impossible MIDI notes and lots of microtonal resolution between them... as long as you don't try to convert to real MIDI codes. Note number -120 is the C of octave -11, note number 666 is the F# of octave 54. Note number 69.0001 is one 1% of 1 cent above A4.
In _this_ mail I did subtract 1, to comply with the chart.
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC
Hi, just a tip: begin with everybody clapping hands and counting loud every clap, and then counting in different modulos , and then go to pd showing how pd does the same. Then the same with pitches, first singing, etc...i always start with quick collective musical exercise and then go to computer :) cristiano
On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 10:47 PM, Joe potaxpotax@gmail.com wrote:
hello i am trying to come up with some examples to use in a short workshop with 11 year old kids using maths to make sound and music (music in very loose terms that is). i would love to use pd for this. it can be literally anything, as long as they can easily see a relation between some basic math concepts (number sequences, patterns, etc.) and the sounds they hear while interacting with the patches. the goal is not to have the kids write the patches, but to make them *play* with them.
does anyone have any ideas for this? useful, easy to understand math concepts that could be turned into little musical devices? any feedback will be greatly appreciated!
cheerio
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brandt＠subnet.at -
Charles Goyard -
Cody Loyd -
cristiano figueiró -
Joe -
Jonathan Wilkes -
Mathieu Bouchard