Hi list,
I'm initiating to do gui abstractions, and I have two issues in pd-extended.
First: When I use the inlet object, can I name it? This is because I would like to have the name inlet in "Autotips" mode. This in pd-extended and l2ork.
Second: In pd-extended .43.4, when I try to use a canvas with graph on parents, I can't see the inlets and outlets.. Is as if graph on parents is below of the canvas object, I'm sending an objects to explain better this issue.
Thanks..
From: Esteban Viveros emviveros@gmail.com To: PD-list list pd-list@iem.at Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 4:50 PM Subject: [PD] GUI abstraction issues
Hi list,
I'm initiating to do gui abstractions, and I have two issues in pd-extended.
First: When I use the inlet object, can I name it? This is because I would like to have the name inlet in "Autotips" mode. This in pd-extended and l2ork.
Hi Esteban, If your abstraction is named "foo.pd", then make a help patch named "foo-help.pd" and put a [pd META] subpatch in it. Inside the subpatch, make a <ctrl-5> comment with this text: INLET_0 Put your inlet name here
That will display "Put your inlet name here" when you hover over the leftmost inlet in "Autotips" mode. (You can address the other inlets with INLET_1, INLET_2, etc., as well as OUTLET_0, etc.)
I could have made it a lot easier by searching the abstraction itself for the info to display in the tip, but I _really_ want to discourage the practice of using the abstraction as its own documentation since that excludes the possibility for an example patch (which IMO is the most important part of the help patch).
You can find more info on the pd META stuff in doc/5.reference/all_about_pd_META.pd or just use Help->Search for "all about pd META"
-Jonathan
Second: In pd-extended .43.4, when I try to use a canvas with graph on parents, I can't see the inlets and outlets.. Is as if graph on parents is below of the canvas object, I'm sending an objects to explain better this issue.
Thanks..
--
Esteban Viveros (27) 8815 7170 (27) 3066 0359 (11) 95761 4125 (11) 2738 7868 www.bandpage.com/estebanviveros https://www.facebook.com/estebanviveros.art http://www.papodecompositor-es.blogspot.com.br/ http://expurgacao.art.br/ _______________________________________________ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Very helpful!!
Thanks!
2013/2/17 Jonathan Wilkes jancsika@yahoo.com
From: Esteban Viveros emviveros@gmail.com To: PD-list list pd-list@iem.at Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 4:50 PM Subject: [PD] GUI abstraction issues
Hi list,
I'm initiating to do gui abstractions, and I have two issues in
pd-extended.
First: When I use the inlet object, can I name it? This is because I
would like to have the name inlet in "Autotips" mode. This in pd-extended and l2ork.
Hi Esteban, If your abstraction is named "foo.pd", then make a help patch named "foo-help.pd" and put a [pd META] subpatch in it. Inside the subpatch, make a <ctrl-5> comment with this text: INLET_0 Put your inlet name here
That will display "Put your inlet name here" when you hover over the leftmost inlet in "Autotips" mode. (You can address the other inlets with INLET_1, INLET_2, etc., as well as OUTLET_0, etc.)
I could have made it a lot easier by searching the abstraction itself for the info to display in the tip, but I _really_ want to discourage the practice of using the abstraction as its own documentation since that excludes the possibility for an example patch (which IMO is the most important part of the help patch).
You can find more info on the pd META stuff in doc/5.reference/all_about_pd_META.pd or just use Help->Search for "all about pd META"
-Jonathan
Second: In pd-extended .43.4, when I try to use a canvas with graph on
parents, I can't see the inlets and outlets.. Is as if graph on parents is below of the canvas object, I'm sending an objects to explain better this issue.
Thanks..
--
Esteban Viveros (27) 8815 7170 (27) 3066 0359 (11) 95761 4125 (11) 2738 7868 www.bandpage.com/estebanviveros https://www.facebook.com/estebanviveros.art http://www.papodecompositor-es.blogspot.com.br/ http://expurgacao.art.br/ _______________________________________________ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
From: Esteban Viveros emviveros@gmail.com To: Jonathan Wilkes jancsika@yahoo.com Cc: PD-list list pd-list@iem.at Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 9:09 PM Subject: Re: [PD] GUI abstraction issues
Very helpful!!
Thanks!
No problem. But it occurs to me that in all the standard documentation that text is only for the names of the methods accepted by that inlet. There probably needs to be a separate place to specify text for the description of the inlet as well. I'll try to think of an easy way to make that distinction possible in the [pd META] patch.
That doesn't really affect your use case, but general purpose abstractions and externals should probably stick to method names there.
Btw-- you can also use "DESCRIPTION foo bar" to display "foo bar" in the tooltip when mousing over the abstraction itself.
-Jonathan
Le 18/02/2013 03:03, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit :
From: Esteban Viveros emviveros@gmail.com To: PD-list list pd-list@iem.at Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 4:50 PM Subject: [PD] GUI abstraction issues
Hi list,
I'm initiating to do gui abstractions, and I have two issues in pd-extended.
First: When I use the inlet object, can I name it? This is because I would like to have the name inlet in "Autotips" mode. This in pd-extended and l2ork.
Hi Esteban, If your abstraction is named "foo.pd", then make a help patch named "foo-help.pd" and put a [pd META] subpatch in it. Inside the subpatch, make a <ctrl-5> comment with this text: INLET_0 Put your inlet name here
That will display "Put your inlet name here" when you hover over the leftmost inlet in "Autotips" mode. (You can address the other inlets with INLET_1, INLET_2, etc., as well as OUTLET_0, etc.)
I could have made it a lot easier by searching the abstraction itself for the info to display in the tip, but I _really_ want to discourage the practice of using the abstraction as its own documentation since that excludes the possibility for an example patch (which IMO is the most important part of the help patch).
You can find more info on the pd META stuff in doc/5.reference/all_about_pd_META.pd or just use Help->Search for "all about pd META"
-Jonathan
Second: In pd-extended .43.4, when I try to use a canvas with graph on parents, I can't see the inlets and outlets.. Is as if graph on parents is below of the canvas object, I'm sending an objects to explain better this issue.
Thanks..
--
Esteban Viveros (27) 8815 7170 (27) 3066 0359 (11) 95761 4125 (11) 2738 7868 www.bandpage.com/estebanviveros https://www.facebook.com/estebanviveros.art http://www.papodecompositor-es.blogspot.com.br/ http://expurgacao.art.br/ _______________________________________________ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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Hello,
You can also put an argument in [inlet] like [inlet name_of_my_inlet]. ++
Jack
Le 18/02/2013 16:39, Jack a écrit :
Le 18/02/2013 03:03, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit :
From: Esteban Viveros emviveros@gmail.com To: PD-list list pd-list@iem.at Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 4:50 PM Subject: [PD] GUI abstraction issues
Hi list,
I'm initiating to do gui abstractions, and I have two issues in pd-extended.
First: When I use the inlet object, can I name it? This is because I would like to have the name inlet in "Autotips" mode. This in pd-extended and l2ork.
Hi Esteban, If your abstraction is named "foo.pd", then make a help patch named "foo-help.pd" and put a [pd META] subpatch in it. Inside the subpatch, make a <ctrl-5> comment with this text: INLET_0 Put your inlet name here
That will display "Put your inlet name here" when you hover over the leftmost inlet in "Autotips" mode. (You can address the other inlets with INLET_1, INLET_2, etc., as well as OUTLET_0, etc.)
I could have made it a lot easier by searching the abstraction itself for the info to display in the tip, but I _really_ want to discourage the practice of using the abstraction as its own documentation since that excludes the possibility for an example patch (which IMO is the most important part of the help patch).
You can find more info on the pd META stuff in doc/5.reference/all_about_pd_META.pd or just use Help->Search for "all about pd META"
-Jonathan
Second: In pd-extended .43.4, when I try to use a canvas with graph on parents, I can't see the inlets and outlets.. Is as if graph on parents is below of the canvas object, I'm sending an objects to explain better this issue.
Thanks..
--
Esteban Viveros (27) 8815 7170 (27) 3066 0359 (11) 95761 4125 (11) 2738 7868 www.bandpage.com/estebanviveros https://www.facebook.com/estebanviveros.art http://www.papodecompositor-es.blogspot.com.br/ http://expurgacao.art.br/ _______________________________________________ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Hello,
You can also put an argument in [inlet] like [inlet name_of_my_inlet]. ++
Jack
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Sorry my last mail is not an answer for your question, i didn't read your mail correctly. ++
Jack
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On 2013-02-17 22:50, Esteban Viveros wrote:
Second: In pd-extended .43.4, when I try to use a canvas with graph on parents, I can't see the inlets and outlets.. Is as if graph on parents is below of the canvas object,
yes it is.
gfadmr IOhannes
2013/2/18 IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoelnig@iem.at
yes it is.
You know someway to solve that issue??
2013/2/18 IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoelnig@iem.at
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On 2013-02-17 22:50, Esteban Viveros wrote:
Second: In pd-extended .43.4, when I try to use a canvas with graph on parents, I can't see the inlets and outlets.. Is as if graph on parents is below of the canvas object,
yes it is.
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On 2013-02-18 13:36, Esteban Viveros wrote:
2013/2/18 IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoelnig@iem.at
yes it is.
You know someway to solve that issue??
currently the only way (i know of) is to make your [cnv] smal enough so that it doesn't hide the iolets.
(or trust the user that they can connect without actually _seeing_ the iolets)
fgamsdr IOhannes
On Mon, 2013-02-18 at 14:19 +0100, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
On 2013-02-18 13:36, Esteban Viveros wrote:
2013/2/18 IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoelnig@iem.at
yes it is.
You know someway to solve that issue??
currently the only way (i know of) is to make your [cnv] smal enough so that it doesn't hide the iolets.
(or trust the user that they can connect without actually _seeing_ the iolets)
A third option is to create small black [cnv] objects. Place them to locations of the inlets and outlets of your GOP abstraction. Of course, this works only if your abstraction has a fixed number of xlets.
Roman
Yep.. If I put small cnv, I destroy the my GOP visual.. :( (but if I don't have any other option, I will to do that)
I tried the 'micro cnv' to sinalize the inlets and outlets.. It's attached. But I can't see the information of these xlets in autotips mode...
Only to kill my curiosity, what the meaning of GOP abreviation?
2013/2/18 Roman Haefeli reduzent@gmail.com
On Mon, 2013-02-18 at 14:19 +0100, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
On 2013-02-18 13:36, Esteban Viveros wrote:
2013/2/18 IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoelnig@iem.at
yes it is.
You know someway to solve that issue??
currently the only way (i know of) is to make your [cnv] smal enough so that it doesn't hide the iolets.
(or trust the user that they can connect without actually _seeing_ the iolets)
A third option is to create small black [cnv] objects. Place them to locations of the inlets and outlets of your GOP abstraction. Of course, this works only if your abstraction has a fixed number of xlets.
Roman
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Well I try the IOhannes sugestion, and autotips don't work correctly with my abstraction... :/
I tried to create another example (testing-abstration), and now only the inlet are working with autotips feature... In pd-l2ork everything works fine.
2013/2/18 Esteban Viveros emviveros@gmail.com
Yep.. If I put small cnv, I destroy the my GOP visual.. :( (but if I don't have any other option, I will to do that)
I tried the 'micro cnv' to sinalize the inlets and outlets.. It's attached. But I can't see the information of these xlets in autotips mode...
Only to kill my curiosity, what the meaning of GOP abreviation?
2013/2/18 Roman Haefeli reduzent@gmail.com
On Mon, 2013-02-18 at 14:19 +0100, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
On 2013-02-18 13:36, Esteban Viveros wrote:
2013/2/18 IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoelnig@iem.at
yes it is.
You know someway to solve that issue??
currently the only way (i know of) is to make your [cnv] smal enough so that it doesn't hide the iolets.
(or trust the user that they can connect without actually _seeing_ the iolets)
A third option is to create small black [cnv] objects. Place them to locations of the inlets and outlets of your GOP abstraction. Of course, this works only if your abstraction has a fixed number of xlets.
Roman
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
--
Esteban Viveros
(27) 8815 7170 (27) 3066 0359 (11) 95761 4125 (11) 2738 7868
www.bandpage.com/estebanviveros http://soundcloud.com/estebanviveros
https://www.facebook.com/estebanviveros.art
From: Esteban Viveros emviveros@gmail.com To: Roman Haefeli reduzent@gmail.com Cc: PD-list list pd-list@iem.at Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [PD] GUI abstraction issues
Well I try the IOhannes sugestion, and autotips don't work correctly with my abstraction... :/
I tried to create another example (testing-abstration), and now only the inlet are working with autotips feature... In pd-l2ork everything works fine.
Indeed it doesn't. It looks like when the abstraction is GOP, it registers all the xlet #s as "-1", and it doesn't detect the bounding box of the object. (The latter because I'm looking for the text tag, which a gop box doesn't have.)
I imagine Ivica's works because he's checking for tooltips on the c-side, and I'm checking on the tcl side.
Pd-l2ork: Check whether there's an object or inlet under current mouse position. If there is, look for its tooltip text in the help patch, then draw the tooltip.
Pd-ext: Trigger an event when the mouse hovers over an object or inlet that is _visible_ on the canvas. Look for the tooltip text in the help patch, then draw the tooltip.
Pd-l2ork's approach is more robust-- for example, it's easier for him to enlarge the area that will register an xlet tooltip. Pd-extended's currently has what I think is the "proper" behavior, though-- you only show tooltips for objects that are visible to the user. If the patch author covers up an object with a [cnv], he/she is actively hiding that object, and it shouldn't register a tooltip. It's bad UI design to show a tooltip when the user can't see the thing it refers to.
Anyway, I'll investigate and see if I can come up with a fix for the testing-abstration (sic) situation. But if you're putting [cnv] objects on top of xlets then they shouldn't respond to tooltips. That problem should be fixed at the source: xlets and object rectangle should always be at the top of the stacking order. (I guess there could also be an option for hiding xlets or the box, but that doesn't seem like a good idea for visual dataflow.)
-Jonathan
IOhannes, you are right... I try open one more time testing-abstration (sorry for the error..) in windows that time. And outlet is showned in autotips, the only problem it's a little hard to hit the outlet area...
If can be fixed the problem of rectangle GOP and IOlets always at the top, I'm a very happy pd-user! ;)
I can suggest either a "little bigger" area of autotips response to iolets.
2013/2/18 Jonathan Wilkes jancsika@yahoo.com
From: Esteban Viveros emviveros@gmail.com To: Roman Haefeli reduzent@gmail.com Cc: PD-list list pd-list@iem.at Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [PD] GUI abstraction issues
Well I try the IOhannes sugestion, and autotips don't work correctly with
my abstraction... :/
I tried to create another example (testing-abstration), and now only the
inlet are working with autotips feature... In pd-l2ork everything works fine.
Indeed it doesn't. It looks like when the abstraction is GOP, it registers all the xlet #s as "-1", and it doesn't detect the bounding box of the object. (The latter because I'm looking for the text tag, which a gop box doesn't have.)
I imagine Ivica's works because he's checking for tooltips on the c-side, and I'm checking on the tcl side.
Pd-l2ork: Check whether there's an object or inlet under current mouse position. If there is, look for its tooltip text in the help patch, then draw the tooltip.
Pd-ext: Trigger an event when the mouse hovers over an object or inlet that is _visible_ on the canvas. Look for the tooltip text in the help patch, then draw the tooltip.
Pd-l2ork's approach is more robust-- for example, it's easier for him to enlarge the area that will register an xlet tooltip. Pd-extended's currently has what I think is the "proper" behavior, though-- you only show tooltips for objects that are visible to the user. If the patch author covers up an object with a [cnv], he/she is actively hiding that object, and it shouldn't register a tooltip. It's bad UI design to show a tooltip when the user can't see the thing it refers to.
Anyway, I'll investigate and see if I can come up with a fix for the testing-abstration (sic) situation. But if you're putting [cnv] objects on top of xlets then they shouldn't respond to tooltips. That problem should be fixed at the source: xlets and object rectangle should always be at the top of the stacking order. (I guess there could also be an option for hiding xlets or the box, but that doesn't seem like a good idea for visual dataflow.)
-Jonathan
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On 2013-02-18 15:42, Esteban Viveros wrote:
Only to kill my curiosity, what the meaning of GOP abreviation?
"Graph On Parent"
fgasmr IOhannes
On 18/02/13 21:19, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
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On 2013-02-18 13:36, Esteban Viveros wrote:
2013/2/18 IOhannes m zmoelnigzmoelnig@iem.at
yes it is.
You know someway to solve that issue??
currently the only way (i know of) is to make your [cnv] smal enough so that it doesn't hide the iolets.
(or trust the user that they can connect without actually _seeing_ the iolets)
or make little [cnv]s to indicate the iolets, then you can colour code them as well, if you are making that sort of interface
Simon
-
Esteban Viveros -
IOhannes m zmoelnig -
Jack -
Jonathan Wilkes -
Roman Haefeli -
Simon Wise