How many externals are there, really? For those that use pd-lib-builder, it's a simple recompile.
I'd argue that more time has been spent writing emails on this issue than it would take for each person to take one external, make a fat build, and upload to deken.
We went through this already with the transition from Pd-extended end-of-life to Pd vanilla + deken: there was much handwrining about the extended externals not being easy to install until someone (IOhannes) simply put the existing compiled externals on deken.
We know what needs to be done, so let's do it.
On Mar 30, 2022, at 3:13 PM, pd-list-request@lists.iem.at wrote:
Message: 1 Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2022 12:24:02 +0200 From: Christof Ressi <info@christofressi.com mailto:info@christofressi.com> To: Pd-List <pd-list@lists.iem.at mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at> Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd 0.52-2 released Message-ID: <482236c3-8edb-7f21-6156-e18cc9035fd6@christofressi.com mailto:482236c3-8edb-7f21-6156-e18cc9035fd6@christofressi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Now *I* am utterly confused.
now people seem to all agree that it was much better way back then.
I think everybody agrees that there should be an ARM64 binary for macOS. The question is just whether it should be the default on M1 machines when there are so few ARM64 externals for macOS available on Deken. (I count 9: zexy, comport, xsample, pool, clk, absattr, vasp, zconf, constantq~)
Actually, this issue already came up two months ago and someone called it a "lousy UX":
https://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2022-01/130772.html https://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2022-01/130772.html
So what has changed?
As I said before, we might alternatively add a disclaimer to the download page that people might want to force-run Pd under Rosetta if they don't find all the externals they need.
However, I'm not a Mac user and I don't have a ball in this game. I was just parotting what I thought the consensus was back then...
Christof
Dan Wilcox @danomatika http://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com http://danomatika.com/ robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com/
Personally, I can't build fat macOS externals because I don't have a (recent enough) Mac...
But generally you're right: it's not like we're talking about thousands of packages. Deken currently lists 204 Darwin amd64 binaries, some of which are actually multiple versions of the same library. So we're probably talking about 100 externals maximum.
But why not do both:
try to compile and upload as many universal binaries as possible
make a better solution for the status quo (either seperate builds or
some big warning + instructions on the download page)
Christof
On 30.03.2022 17:30, Dan Wilcox wrote:
How many externals are there, really? For those that use pd-lib-builder, it's a simple recompile.
I'd argue that more time has been spent writing emails on this issue than it would take for each person to take one external, make a fat build, and upload to deken.
We went through this already with the transition from Pd-extended end-of-life to Pd vanilla + deken: there was much handwrining about the extended externals not being easy to install until someone (IOhannes) simply put the existing compiled externals on deken.
We know what needs to be done, so let's do it.
On Mar 30, 2022, at 3:13 PM, pd-list-request@lists.iem.at wrote:
Message: 1 Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2022 12:24:02 +0200 From: Christof Ressi info@christofressi.com To: Pd-List pd-list@lists.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd 0.52-2 released Message-ID: 482236c3-8edb-7f21-6156-e18cc9035fd6@christofressi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Now *I* am utterly confused.
now people seem to all agree that it was much better way back then.
I think everybody agrees that there should be an ARM64 binary for macOS. The question is just whether it should be the default on M1 machines when there are so few ARM64 externals for macOS available on Deken. (I count 9: zexy, comport, xsample, pool, clk, absattr, vasp, zconf, constantq~)
Actually, this issue already came up two months ago and someone called it a "lousy UX":
https://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2022-01/130772.html
So what has changed?
As I said before, we might alternatively add a disclaimer to the download page that people might want to force-run Pd under Rosetta if they don't find all the externals they need.
However, I'm not a Mac user and I don't have a ball in this game. I was just parotting what I thought the consensus was back then...
Christof
Dan Wilcox @danomatika http://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com http://danomatika.com robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com
I would add instructions on running the app under Rosetta for older externals. I would *not* start providing separate builds.
Forcing Rosetta is also something extensively documented online and on Apple's own website:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211861 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211861
I would say we really only need a small note underneath the download link such as:
On M1 systems, you may need to force the app to run with Rosetta for externals which are not yet compiled for arm64: Right-click on Pd, choose Get Info, check Open using Rosetta.
On Mar 30, 2022, at 5:37 PM, Christof Ressi info@christofressi.com wrote:
- make a better solution for the status quo (either seperate builds or some big warning + instructions on the download page)
Dan Wilcox @danomatika http://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com http://danomatika.com/ robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com/
On 30.03.2022 17:43, Dan Wilcox wrote:
I would add instructions on running the app under Rosetta for older externals. I would *not* start providing separate builds.
Agreed.
Forcing Rosetta is also something extensively documented online and on Apple's own website:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211861
I would say we really only need a small note underneath the download link such as:
On M1 systems, you may need to force the app to run with Rosetta for externals which are not yet compiled for arm64: Right-click on Pd, choose Get Info, check Open using Rosetta.
+1
On 3/30/22 17:30, Dan Wilcox wrote:
How many externals are there, really?
there's a total of 146 externals that have macOS binaries (of any form). of these, there are 10 externals that provide M1 binaries.
I'd argue that more time has been spent writing emails on this issue than it would take for each person to take one external, make a fat build, and upload to deken.
+1
today i've uploaded two more (for which i feel some slight responsibility)
I'd argue that more time has been spent writing emails on this issue
than it would take for each person to take one external, make a fat build, and upload to deken.
I'll still take quite some time to get ready to compile for M1 by updating my OS and XCode, and I don't have an apple silicon mac to test, so even then I'd need help testing.
We need to document and explain the situation to people anyway, I think this discussion is useful for that. Just a mentioning to run roseta for older externals is fine by me, hopefully it'll prevent other people downloading the new release not knowing why externals aren't running anymore.
today i've uploaded two more (for which i feel some slight responsibility)
Philip Stone helped me and sent me M1 binaries for ELSE and Cyclone he compiled himself, I just uploaded them to deken. So count two more in ;)
Again, I hope to be able to do it in a couple of weeks or so myself when I provide a release update for both.
Cheers
-
Alexandre Torres Porres -
Christof Ressi -
Dan Wilcox -
IOhannes m zmoelnig