Hello list,
Perhaps a bit of a long shot and pretty much the exact opposite of the $0 in messages conversations as of late: Is there a way to NOT resolve dollar arguments in messages and/or objects?
Example case: Lately for a project I've wanted to create vast swaths of [array define]s and I've done so with dynamic patching. Since I want their bound symbols to be something like "$0-snd0", "$0-snd1" $0"-snd2"... "$0-snd50", I DON'T want dollar arguments (particularly the $0) to resolve to anything. Similarly, I store filepath + array symbol pairs in texts to do a big load at the beginning and for right now and can always add the $0-bit via passing that symbol through a [makefilename], but I'm wondering if I can pass $0s unresolved into a text without having to manually type it in via the popup window.
Of course I can always edit the patch in emacs/vim and do a search/replace, but I'm looking for an in-Pd solutions... Also for the array business I suppose I could do that via [clone], but that situation doesn't seem ideal either...
Thanks!
Derek
On Tue, 2018-05-15 at 04:15 -0700, Derek Kwan wrote:
Hello list,
Perhaps a bit of a long shot and pretty much the exact opposite of the $0 in messages conversations as of late: Is there a way to NOT resolve dollar arguments in messages and/or objects?
I think you cannot dynamically disable the resolution of dollar symbols.
Example case: Lately for a project I've wanted to create vast swaths of [array define]s and I've done so with dynamic patching. Since I want their bound symbols to be something like "$0-snd0", "$0-snd1" $0"-snd2"... "$0-snd50", I DON'T want dollar arguments (particularly the $0) to resolve to anything
Do I understand correctly that you want to be able to create those objects containing literal '$0'?
You can "trick" Pd into creating a symbol that itself has a dollar variable:
[0 ( | [obj 20 20 array define $$1-snd0] | [s canvas]
. Similarly, I store filepath + array symbol pairs in texts to do a big load at the beginning and for right now and can always add the $0-bit via passing that symbol through a [makefilename], but I'm wondering if I can pass $0s unresolved into a text without having to manually type it in via the popup window.
You could use the same trick.
Of course I can always edit the patch in emacs/vim and do a search/replace, but I'm looking for an in-Pd solutions... Also for the array business I suppose I could do that via [clone], but that situation doesn't seem ideal either...
I was just wondering why I haven't ever experienced the same need for literal dollar symbols in my patching career and realized that I never save dynamically created stuff. I rather let the dynamic stuff be created each time I load the patch. This way all dollar variables resolve to the currently correct value and I never bothered to use literal dollar signs in dynamic patching. Maybe I'm not fully understanding your case, but I can't see how having dynamically generated '$0' is useful in any way. Either you create all dynamic stuff from scratch, then you can as well use the value of $0 or you're saving stuff for later, but why do you need $0 then? Don't you rather want something fixed/controllable, that evaluates to the same value on each run?
Roman
[obj 20 20 array define $$1-snd0]
this only works as long as you don't save and reopen the patch, where "$$1" will become "$$1" (which is resolved to "$\$1" instead of "\$1").
this should do the trick: [0( --> [makefilename $%d] --> [;pd-mysubpatch obj 0 0 array define $1-snd0(
one case where this is necessary is when you dynamically create pd patch files which take creation arguments or need $0-symbols.
Christof
Gesendet: Dienstag, 15. Mai 2018 um 13:52 Uhr Von: "Roman Haefeli" reduzent@gmail.com An: pd-list@lists.iem.at Betreff: Re: [PD] Escaping/not resolving dollar argts in msgs/objects?
On Tue, 2018-05-15 at 04:15 -0700, Derek Kwan wrote:
Hello list,
Perhaps a bit of a long shot and pretty much the exact opposite of the $0 in messages conversations as of late: Is there a way to NOT resolve dollar arguments in messages and/or objects?
I think you cannot dynamically disable the resolution of dollar symbols.
Example case: Lately for a project I've wanted to create vast swaths of [array define]s and I've done so with dynamic patching. Since I want their bound symbols to be something like "$0-snd0", "$0-snd1" $0"-snd2"... "$0-snd50", I DON'T want dollar arguments (particularly the $0) to resolve to anything
Do I understand correctly that you want to be able to create those objects containing literal '$0'?
You can "trick" Pd into creating a symbol that itself has a dollar variable:
[0 ( | [obj 20 20 array define $$1-snd0] | [s canvas]
. Similarly, I store filepath + array symbol pairs in texts to do a big load at the beginning and for right now and can always add the $0-bit via passing that symbol through a [makefilename], but I'm wondering if I can pass $0s unresolved into a text without having to manually type it in via the popup window.
You could use the same trick.
Of course I can always edit the patch in emacs/vim and do a search/replace, but I'm looking for an in-Pd solutions... Also for the array business I suppose I could do that via [clone], but that situation doesn't seem ideal either...
I was just wondering why I haven't ever experienced the same need for literal dollar symbols in my patching career and realized that I never save dynamically created stuff. I rather let the dynamic stuff be created each time I load the patch. This way all dollar variables resolve to the currently correct value and I never bothered to use literal dollar signs in dynamic patching. Maybe I'm not fully understanding your case, but I can't see how having dynamically generated '$0' is useful in any way. Either you create all dynamic stuff from scratch, then you can as well use the value of $0 or you're saving stuff for later, but why do you need $0 then? Don't you rather want something fixed/controllable, that evaluates to the same value on each run?
Roman
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sorry, I think I misread your question. for what you want Jack's solution is right. mine is for dynamically creating patch *files*.
Gesendet: Dienstag, 15. Mai 2018 um 14:09 Uhr Von: "Christof Ressi" christof.ressi@gmx.at An: "Roman Haefeli" reduzent@gmail.com Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at Betreff: Re: [PD] Escaping/not resolving dollar argts in msgs/objects?
[obj 20 20 array define $$1-snd0]
this only works as long as you don't save and reopen the patch, where "$$1" will become "$$1" (which is resolved to "$\$1" instead of "\$1").
this should do the trick: [0( --> [makefilename $%d] --> [;pd-mysubpatch obj 0 0 array define $1-snd0(
one case where this is necessary is when you dynamically create pd patch files which take creation arguments or need $0-symbols.
Christof
Gesendet: Dienstag, 15. Mai 2018 um 13:52 Uhr Von: "Roman Haefeli" reduzent@gmail.com An: pd-list@lists.iem.at Betreff: Re: [PD] Escaping/not resolving dollar argts in msgs/objects?
On Tue, 2018-05-15 at 04:15 -0700, Derek Kwan wrote:
Hello list,
Perhaps a bit of a long shot and pretty much the exact opposite of the $0 in messages conversations as of late: Is there a way to NOT resolve dollar arguments in messages and/or objects?
I think you cannot dynamically disable the resolution of dollar symbols.
Example case: Lately for a project I've wanted to create vast swaths of [array define]s and I've done so with dynamic patching. Since I want their bound symbols to be something like "$0-snd0", "$0-snd1" $0"-snd2"... "$0-snd50", I DON'T want dollar arguments (particularly the $0) to resolve to anything
Do I understand correctly that you want to be able to create those objects containing literal '$0'?
You can "trick" Pd into creating a symbol that itself has a dollar variable:
[0 ( | [obj 20 20 array define $$1-snd0] | [s canvas]
. Similarly, I store filepath + array symbol pairs in texts to do a big load at the beginning and for right now and can always add the $0-bit via passing that symbol through a [makefilename], but I'm wondering if I can pass $0s unresolved into a text without having to manually type it in via the popup window.
You could use the same trick.
Of course I can always edit the patch in emacs/vim and do a search/replace, but I'm looking for an in-Pd solutions... Also for the array business I suppose I could do that via [clone], but that situation doesn't seem ideal either...
I was just wondering why I haven't ever experienced the same need for literal dollar symbols in my patching career and realized that I never save dynamically created stuff. I rather let the dynamic stuff be created each time I load the patch. This way all dollar variables resolve to the currently correct value and I never bothered to use literal dollar signs in dynamic patching. Maybe I'm not fully understanding your case, but I can't see how having dynamically generated '$0' is useful in any way. Either you create all dynamic stuff from scratch, then you can as well use the value of $0 or you're saving stuff for later, but why do you need $0 then? Don't you rather want something fixed/controllable, that evaluates to the same value on each run?
Roman
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With both solutions the $ in the created arrays are escaped like [array define $0-snd0] and cannot be accessed by [array get $0-snd0].
On 05/15/2018 02:22 PM, Christof Ressi wrote:
sorry, I think I misread your question. for what you want Jack's solution is right. mine is for dynamically creating patch *files*.
Gesendet: Dienstag, 15. Mai 2018 um 14:09 Uhr Von: "Christof Ressi" christof.ressi@gmx.at An: "Roman Haefeli" reduzent@gmail.com Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at Betreff: Re: [PD] Escaping/not resolving dollar argts in msgs/objects?
[obj 20 20 array define $$1-snd0]
this only works as long as you don't save and reopen the patch, where "$$1" will become "$$1" (which is resolved to "$\$1" instead of "\$1").
this should do the trick: [0( --> [makefilename $%d] --> [;pd-mysubpatch obj 0 0 array define $1-snd0(
one case where this is necessary is when you dynamically create pd patch files which take creation arguments or need $0-symbols.
Christof
Gesendet: Dienstag, 15. Mai 2018 um 13:52 Uhr Von: "Roman Haefeli" reduzent@gmail.com An: pd-list@lists.iem.at Betreff: Re: [PD] Escaping/not resolving dollar argts in msgs/objects?
On Tue, 2018-05-15 at 04:15 -0700, Derek Kwan wrote:
Hello list,
Perhaps a bit of a long shot and pretty much the exact opposite of the $0 in messages conversations as of late: Is there a way to NOT resolve dollar arguments in messages and/or objects?
I think you cannot dynamically disable the resolution of dollar symbols.
Example case: Lately for a project I've wanted to create vast swaths of [array define]s and I've done so with dynamic patching. Since I want their bound symbols to be something like "$0-snd0", "$0-snd1" $0"-snd2"... "$0-snd50", I DON'T want dollar arguments (particularly the $0) to resolve to anything
Do I understand correctly that you want to be able to create those objects containing literal '$0'?
You can "trick" Pd into creating a symbol that itself has a dollar variable:
[0 ( | [obj 20 20 array define $$1-snd0] | [s canvas]
. Similarly, I store filepath + array symbol pairs in texts to do a big load at the beginning and for right now and can always add the $0-bit via passing that symbol through a [makefilename], but I'm wondering if I can pass $0s unresolved into a text without having to manually type it in via the popup window.
You could use the same trick.
Of course I can always edit the patch in emacs/vim and do a search/replace, but I'm looking for an in-Pd solutions... Also for the array business I suppose I could do that via [clone], but that situation doesn't seem ideal either...
I was just wondering why I haven't ever experienced the same need for literal dollar symbols in my patching career and realized that I never save dynamically created stuff. I rather let the dynamic stuff be created each time I load the patch. This way all dollar variables resolve to the currently correct value and I never bothered to use literal dollar signs in dynamic patching. Maybe I'm not fully understanding your case, but I can't see how having dynamically generated '$0' is useful in any way. Either you create all dynamic stuff from scratch, then you can as well use the value of $0 or you're saving stuff for later, but why do you need $0 then? Don't you rather want something fixed/controllable, that evaluates to the same value on each run?
Roman
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so I guess Roman's solution [0( -> [;pd-sub obj 0 0 array define $$1-snd0( is just fine as long as you only want to create all those arrays once and don't care if the "creator" part isn't saved correctly.
BTW, my solution works for plain dollarargs ("$1") but it doesn't work properly for dollarsymbols ("$1-foo"). that's where my confusion came from...
Gesendet: Dienstag, 15. Mai 2018 um 14:31 Uhr Von: "Ingo Stock" mail@ingostock.de An: pd-list@lists.iem.at Betreff: Re: [PD] Fw: Re: Escaping/not resolving dollar argts in msgs/objects?
With both solutions the $ in the created arrays are escaped like [array define $0-snd0] and cannot be accessed by [array get $0-snd0].
On 05/15/2018 02:22 PM, Christof Ressi wrote:
sorry, I think I misread your question. for what you want Jack's solution is right. mine is for dynamically creating patch *files*.
Gesendet: Dienstag, 15. Mai 2018 um 14:09 Uhr Von: "Christof Ressi" christof.ressi@gmx.at An: "Roman Haefeli" reduzent@gmail.com Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at Betreff: Re: [PD] Escaping/not resolving dollar argts in msgs/objects?
[obj 20 20 array define $$1-snd0]
this only works as long as you don't save and reopen the patch, where "$$1" will become "$$1" (which is resolved to "$\$1" instead of "\$1").
this should do the trick: [0( --> [makefilename $%d] --> [;pd-mysubpatch obj 0 0 array define $1-snd0(
one case where this is necessary is when you dynamically create pd patch files which take creation arguments or need $0-symbols.
Christof
Gesendet: Dienstag, 15. Mai 2018 um 13:52 Uhr Von: "Roman Haefeli" reduzent@gmail.com An: pd-list@lists.iem.at Betreff: Re: [PD] Escaping/not resolving dollar argts in msgs/objects?
On Tue, 2018-05-15 at 04:15 -0700, Derek Kwan wrote:
Hello list,
Perhaps a bit of a long shot and pretty much the exact opposite of the $0 in messages conversations as of late: Is there a way to NOT resolve dollar arguments in messages and/or objects?
I think you cannot dynamically disable the resolution of dollar symbols.
Example case: Lately for a project I've wanted to create vast swaths of [array define]s and I've done so with dynamic patching. Since I want their bound symbols to be something like "$0-snd0", "$0-snd1" $0"-snd2"... "$0-snd50", I DON'T want dollar arguments (particularly the $0) to resolve to anything
Do I understand correctly that you want to be able to create those objects containing literal '$0'?
You can "trick" Pd into creating a symbol that itself has a dollar variable:
[0 ( | [obj 20 20 array define $$1-snd0] | [s canvas]
. Similarly, I store filepath + array symbol pairs in texts to do a big load at the beginning and for right now and can always add the $0-bit via passing that symbol through a [makefilename], but I'm wondering if I can pass $0s unresolved into a text without having to manually type it in via the popup window.
You could use the same trick.
Of course I can always edit the patch in emacs/vim and do a search/replace, but I'm looking for an in-Pd solutions... Also for the array business I suppose I could do that via [clone], but that situation doesn't seem ideal either...
I was just wondering why I haven't ever experienced the same need for literal dollar symbols in my patching career and realized that I never save dynamically created stuff. I rather let the dynamic stuff be created each time I load the patch. This way all dollar variables resolve to the currently correct value and I never bothered to use literal dollar signs in dynamic patching. Maybe I'm not fully understanding your case, but I can't see how having dynamically generated '$0' is useful in any way. Either you create all dynamic stuff from scratch, then you can as well use the value of $0 or you're saving stuff for later, but why do you need $0 then? Don't you rather want something fixed/controllable, that evaluates to the same value on each run?
Roman
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But it works by creating the message with set and changing messages!
[set obj 30 30 array define, adddollsym $2-$3( --> [( does the trick.
See also attached working demo.
On 05/15/2018 03:26 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote:
On Tue, 2018-05-15 at 14:09 +0200, Christof Ressi wrote:
[obj 20 20 array define $$1-snd0]
this only works as long as you don't save and reopen the patch, where "$$1" will become "$$1" (which is resolved to "$\$1" instead of "\$1").
I see. Thanks for pointing it out.
Roman
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Now this works without error messages, combining some of the approaches in this thread.
ingo
On 05/15/2018 03:47 PM, Ingo Stock wrote:
But it works by creating the message with set and changing messages!
[set obj 30 30 array define, adddollsym $2-$3( --> [( does the trick.
See also attached working demo.
On 05/15/2018 03:26 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote:
On Tue, 2018-05-15 at 14:09 +0200, Christof Ressi wrote:
[obj 20 20 array define $$1-snd0]
this only works as long as you don't save and reopen the patch, where "$$1" will become "$$1" (which is resolved to "$\$1" instead of "\$1").
I see. Thanks for pointing it out.
Roman
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Ingo Stock mail@ingostock.de writes:
Now this works without error messages, combining some of the approaches in this thread.
ingo
On 05/15/2018 03:47 PM, Ingo Stock wrote:
But it works by creating the message with set and changing messages!
[set obj 30 30 array define, adddollsym $2-$3( --> [( does the trick.
See also attached working demo.
On 05/15/2018 03:26 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote:
On Tue, 2018-05-15 at 14:09 +0200, Christof Ressi wrote:
[obj 20 20 array define $$1-snd0]
this only works as long as you don't save and reopen the patch, where "$$1" will become "$$1" (which is resolved to "$\$1" instead of "\$1").
I see. Thanks for pointing it out.
Roman
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Thanks all, sorry for the delayed response, got tied up with a looming deadline during the week... Good solutions to try out with the $$ and the [list tosymbol] options.
Yep, essentially what I wanted to do is was create a bunch of array defines with $0 in them and not care about saving the dynamic patching machinery used to create them. I suppose it wasn't super necessary in my use case, but just keeping up my usual practice of prepending everything with $0-, I suppose I tend to be on the extra paranoid side of wanting to keep everything patch unique. A use case I could definitely see myself doing at some point is something that I would want to open multiple instances of that involve large sample banks, like say a live looping patch with 50 10 second recordable loops or even just a sound launcher/processor patch have can draw from 100s of different loaded up sounds. In those cases, again I wouldn't care so much about saving the machinery used to make all those [array defines], but doing all of those by hand would definitely be a pain and they would all need $0-s in their names to avoid collisions when multiple instances are open...
As a side note, I don't really particular about this situation right now and don't have a use case as of yet, but it looks like both the $$ approach and the tosymbol approach don't work with trying to insert literal "$0, $1, $2" and so on in [text]s the "patching" sort of way via [text insert]? You can enter those literals just fine via the popup Pd text window and those will save just fine, but both the $$ and tosymbol methods via [text insert] yield input that looks to be their escaped $0, $1 versions within the popup Pd text window and then when you try to save the contents of that window they get resolved (so $0 goes to 0 and $1 yields \$1: argument number out of range warnings).
Again, don't particularly care that much about finding a solution to this other issue at the moment, but figured I bring it up as a possible branch of further discussion since the topic is open at the moment anyways...
Thanks again for the help on the dynamically creating [array defines] with literal $0s.
Derek
Derek Kwan www.derekxkwan.com
On 05/20/2018 02:12 PM, Derek Kwan wrote:
As a side note, I don't really particular about this situation right now and don't have a use case as of yet, but it looks like both the $$ approach and the tosymbol approach don't work with trying to insert literal "$0, $1, $2" and so on in [text]s the "patching" sort of way via [text insert]? You can enter those literals just fine via the popup Pd text window and those will save just fine, but both the $$ and tosymbol methods via [text insert] yield input that looks to be their escaped $0, $1 versions within the popup Pd text window and then when you try to save the contents of that window they get resolved (so $0 goes to 0 and $1 yields \$1: argument number out of range warnings).
Yes, the escape mechanism seems to be a bit quirky at times. For example, in the attached patch create-arrays5.pd, the array names are being created the way described above in the thread and put into a [text] object, where they occur escaped. The contents of the [text] can be saved with the patch. If you create the arrays from the [text] after writing to it, the arrays are created fine. But if you reload the patch, $0 is escaped in the array objects, although the contents of [text] look exactly the same. Maybe a bug, maybe some quirk.
Anyhow, there is a solution for writing $0 into [text] and easily generate objects from there that is robust against saving the [text] contents with the patch, using [text fromlist], which is demonstrated in the attached patch create-arrays7.pd. :)
best wishes, ingo
Ingo Stock mail@ingostock.de writes:
On 05/20/2018 02:12 PM, Derek Kwan wrote:
As a side note, I don't really particular about this situation right now and don't have a use case as of yet, but it looks like both the $$ approach and the tosymbol approach don't work with trying to insert literal "$0, $1, $2" and so on in [text]s the "patching" sort of way via [text insert]? You can enter those literals just fine via the popup Pd text window and those will save just fine, but both the $$ and tosymbol methods via [text insert] yield input that looks to be their escaped $0, $1 versions within the popup Pd text window and then when you try to save the contents of that window they get resolved (so $0 goes to 0 and $1 yields \$1: argument number out of range warnings).
Yes, the escape mechanism seems to be a bit quirky at times. For example, in the attached patch create-arrays5.pd, the array names are being created the way described above in the thread and put into a [text] object, where they occur escaped. The contents of the [text] can be saved with the patch. If you create the arrays from the [text] after writing to it, the arrays are created fine. But if you reload the patch, $0 is escaped in the array objects, although the contents of [text] look exactly the same. Maybe a bug, maybe some quirk.
Anyhow, there is a solution for writing $0 into [text] and easily generate objects from there that is robust against saving the [text] contents with the patch, using [text fromlist], which is demonstrated in the attached patch create-arrays7.pd. :)
best wishes, ingo
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ah, well that answers that hah. thx!
and yeah, i suppose its' a bit quirky given that at least functionally texts are collections of lists but I suppose these sorts of things fall more into the "not officially supported" category than not...
derek
Hi,
usually this is not necessary. As $0 changes with every patch opening, the dynamically created objects containing $0 must be recreated again every time. $0 resolves to an actual number in this process (i.e. 1023), but this is alright, as you can access 1023-array1 through [array get $0-array1] (if $0 equals 1023 in that session).
I attached a demo patch that shows how it can be done (even without [makefilename]).
best wishes, ingo
On 05/15/2018 01:15 PM, Derek Kwan wrote:
Hello list,
Perhaps a bit of a long shot and pretty much the exact opposite of the $0 in messages conversations as of late: Is there a way to NOT resolve dollar arguments in messages and/or objects?
Example case: Lately for a project I've wanted to create vast swaths of [array define]s and I've done so with dynamic patching. Since I want their bound symbols to be something like "$0-snd0", "$0-snd1" $0"-snd2"... "$0-snd50", I DON'T want dollar arguments (particularly the $0) to resolve to anything. Similarly, I store filepath + array symbol pairs in texts to do a big load at the beginning and for right now and can always add the $0-bit via passing that symbol through a [makefilename], but I'm wondering if I can pass $0s unresolved into a text without having to manually type it in via the popup window.
Of course I can always edit the patch in emacs/vim and do a search/replace, but I'm looking for an in-Pd solutions... Also for the array business I suppose I could do that via [clone], but that situation doesn't seem ideal either...
Thanks!
Derek
Don't know if this could help for your case... ++
Jack
Le 15/05/2018 à 13:15, Derek Kwan a écrit :
Hello list,
Perhaps a bit of a long shot and pretty much the exact opposite of the $0 in messages conversations as of late: Is there a way to NOT resolve dollar arguments in messages and/or objects?
Example case: Lately for a project I've wanted to create vast swaths of [array define]s and I've done so with dynamic patching. Since I want their bound symbols to be something like "$0-snd0", "$0-snd1" $0"-snd2"... "$0-snd50", I DON'T want dollar arguments (particularly the $0) to resolve to anything. Similarly, I store filepath + array symbol pairs in texts to do a big load at the beginning and for right now and can always add the $0-bit via passing that symbol through a [makefilename], but I'm wondering if I can pass $0s unresolved into a text without having to manually type it in via the popup window.
Of course I can always edit the patch in emacs/vim and do a search/replace, but I'm looking for an in-Pd solutions... Also for the array business I suppose I could do that via [clone], but that situation doesn't seem ideal either...
Thanks!
Derek
-
Christof Ressi -
Derek Kwan -
Ingo Stock -
Jack -
Roman Haefeli