does anyone know much about mastering? i dont.....
anyway i have this record recorder/cutter/lathe and was thinking of doing something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDnpXVUKXM0
which is funny because i have a similar recorder. although i was thinking just cutting in real-time straight from PD. but to get the best sound maybe i could run it through some kind of "mastering" patch. has anyone made such a thing or know best to do in terms of getting decent masters right from PD? I would think something like:
[equilizer~] - but what one? [adaptive/nlms3~]? adaptive_equilization example which im not sure i would know how to use for this | [unauthorized/compressor~] - although there is prob a good vanilla one no? | [expander~] ??? | [exciter~] | [zexy/limiter~] | [hip~ 40] | [lop~ 16000] | [dac~]
but i might just make a mess with this....
m
Thanks for the amazing vid. I've been thinking about a homemade record lathe for some time now. The disposable plate idea is genius.
On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 1:10 PM, me.grimm megrimm@gmail.com wrote:
does anyone know much about mastering? i dont.....
anyway i have this record recorder/cutter/lathe and was thinking of doing something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDnpXVUKXM0
which is funny because i have a similar recorder. although i was thinking just cutting in real-time straight from PD. but to get the best sound maybe i could run it through some kind of "mastering" patch. has anyone made such a thing or know best to do in terms of getting decent masters right from PD? I would think something like:
[equilizer~] - but what one? [adaptive/nlms3~]? adaptive_equilization example which im not sure i would know how to use for this | [unauthorized/compressor~] - although there is prob a good vanilla one no? | [expander~] ??? | [exciter~] | [zexy/limiter~] | [hip~ 40] | [lop~ 16000] | [dac~]
but i might just make a mess with this....
m
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Hello,
I've done vinyl cutting from pd. One thing important is to have the low frequency in phase. It means you must reduce the stereo component under a certain frequency (ex: 100Hz) and only keep mono. If it's not mono (engraved horizontally) the stereo component (engraved vertically) of the basses will make the groove jump up and down. You can use my phasemeter abstractions (joined) to check your signal, mono is vertical, stereo is horizontal.
Don't forget to use a RIAA filter to reduce the importance of basses as well.
Best, Nicolas
Le 19/12/12 07:30, Richie Cyngler a écrit :
Thanks for the amazing vid. I've been thinking about a homemade record lathe for some time now. The disposable plate idea is genius.
On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 1:10 PM, me.grimm <megrimm@gmail.com mailto:megrimm@gmail.com> wrote:
does anyone know much about mastering? i dont..... anyway i have this record recorder/cutter/lathe and was thinking of doing something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDnpXVUKXM0 which is funny because i have a similar recorder. although i was thinking just cutting in real-time straight from PD. but to get the best sound maybe i could run it through some kind of "mastering" patch. has anyone made such a thing or know best to do in terms of getting decent masters right from PD? I would think something like: [equilizer~] - but what one? [adaptive/nlms3~]? adaptive_equilization example which im not sure i would know how to use for this | [unauthorized/compressor~] - although there is prob a good vanilla one no? | [expander~] ??? | [exciter~] | [zexy/limiter~] | [hip~ 40] | [lop~ 16000] | [dac~] but i might just make a mess with this.... m _______________________________________________ Pd-list@iem.at <mailto:Pd-list@iem.at> mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list-- Richie
www.glitchpop.com http://www.glitchpop.com
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
On 19/12/12 03:10, me.grimm wrote:
does anyone know much about mastering? i dont.....
anyway i have this record recorder/cutter/lathe and was thinking of doing something like this:
Very interesting--- thanks for sharing, I couldn't resist noting (and continuously concentrating) on the ground loop (maybe empathised by the woofer..) I'm not totally sure that was intended though ..
which is funny because i have a similar recorder. although i was thinking just cutting in real-time straight from PD. but to get the best sound maybe i could run it through some kind of "mastering" patch. has anyone made such a thing or know best to do in terms of getting decent masters right from PD? I would think something like:
Emulating it as well? I know you lose all the materic thing, but it could be fun.
The voice as heard in the video has something fascinating, it would be interesting to find out what modern digital audio compressions (data such as mp3, ogg etc. can create similar suggetions...)
Lorenzo.
[equilizer~] - but what one? [adaptive/nlms3~]? adaptive_equilization example which im not sure i would know how to use for this | [unauthorized/compressor~] - although there is prob a good vanilla one no? | [expander~] ??? | [exciter~] | [zexy/limiter~] | [hip~ 40] | [lop~ 16000] | [dac~]
but i might just make a mess with this....
m
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
These are some abstractions I have made that do some of what you are asking...the compressor~ is vanilla. Mastering is primarily about developing "golden ears" but you also need to take into account the RIAA curve: http://www.tanker.se/lidstrom/riaa.htm
Remember it's mechanical - I understand that once the RIAA is taken into account, the most pressing issue is bass - extreme bass and the needle jumps, too much and the track is too wide so you get less time. If it's set up wrong then tracks will overlap (but there could be some interesting "jumping record" experiments in there.
Best, Ed Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! http://sharktracks.co.uk/
----- Original Message -----
From: Lorenzo Sutton lorenzofsutton@gmail.com To: pd-list@iem.at Cc: Sent: Wednesday, 19 December 2012, 21:23 Subject: Re: [PD] mastering to vinyl live w/ pd
On 19/12/12 03:10, me.grimm wrote:
does anyone know much about mastering? i dont.....
anyway i have this record recorder/cutter/lathe and was thinking of doing something like this:
Very interesting--- thanks for sharing, I couldn't resist noting (and continuously concentrating) on the ground loop (maybe empathised by the woofer..) I'm not totally sure that was intended though ..
which is funny because i have a similar recorder. although i was thinking just cutting in real-time straight from PD. but to get the best sound maybe i could run it through some kind of "mastering"
patch. has
anyone made such a thing or know best to do in terms of getting decent masters right from PD? I would think something like:
Emulating it as well? I know you lose all the materic thing, but it could be fun.
The voice as heard in the video has something fascinating, it would be interesting to find out what modern digital audio compressions (data such as mp3, ogg etc. can create similar suggetions...)
Lorenzo.
[equilizer~] - but what one? [adaptive/nlms3~]? adaptive_equilization example which im not sure i would know how to use for this | [unauthorized/compressor~] - although there is prob a good vanilla one no? | [expander~] ??? | [exciter~] | [zexy/limiter~] | [hip~ 40] | [lop~ 16000] | [dac~]
but i might just make a mess with this....
m
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
hey all thanks for the tips!
nicolas: your phasemeter looks great. i will use that.
but what is a riaa filter then? is there an implementation in pd? from eds link it looks like there is two such curves. one original RIAA curve and the other as RIAA/IEC curve.
btw nicolas your website looks super great and slick. im curious on the topography record you made. any for sale? sound samples?
ed: thanks for reminding me of your metastudio project. i just revisited and remembered all the nice stuff you had going on. were not you promoting a version 4 at one point? what happened to that?
hopefully ill get something cutting over break before the next semester starts!
m
On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 6:57 AM, Ed Kelly morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
These are some abstractions I have made that do some of what you are asking...the compressor~ is vanilla. Mastering is primarily about developing "golden ears" but you also need to take into account the RIAA curve: http://www.tanker.se/lidstrom/riaa.htm
Remember it's mechanical - I understand that once the RIAA is taken into account, the most pressing issue is bass - extreme bass and the needle jumps, too much and the track is too wide so you get less time. If it's set up wrong then tracks will overlap (but there could be some interesting "jumping record" experiments in there.
Best, Ed
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! http://sharktracks.co.uk/
----- Original Message -----
From: Lorenzo Sutton lorenzofsutton@gmail.com To: pd-list@iem.at Cc: Sent: Wednesday, 19 December 2012, 21:23 Subject: Re: [PD] mastering to vinyl live w/ pd
On 19/12/12 03:10, me.grimm wrote:
does anyone know much about mastering? i dont.....
anyway i have this record recorder/cutter/lathe and was thinking of doing something like this:
Very interesting--- thanks for sharing, I couldn't resist noting (and continuously concentrating) on the ground loop (maybe empathised by the woofer..) I'm not totally sure that was intended though ..
which is funny because i have a similar recorder. although i was thinking just cutting in real-time straight from PD. but to get the
best
sound maybe i could run it through some kind of "mastering"
patch. has
anyone made such a thing or know best to do in terms of getting decent masters right from PD? I would think something like:
Emulating it as well? I know you lose all the materic thing, but it could be fun.
The voice as heard in the video has something fascinating, it would be interesting to find out what modern digital audio compressions (data such as mp3, ogg etc. can create similar suggetions...)
Lorenzo.
[equilizer~] - but what one? [adaptive/nlms3~]? adaptive_equilization example which im not sure i would know how to use for this | [unauthorized/compressor~] - although there is prob a good vanilla one
no?
| [expander~] ??? | [exciter~] | [zexy/limiter~] | [hip~ 40] | [lop~ 16000] | [dac~]
but i might just make a mess with this....
m
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Hey Mark,
RIAA - the original RIAA curve is the one, forget the variants, especially the IEC variety. It's a high-frequency pre-emphasis filter that overcomes the inherent surface noise of vinyl by boosting the HF, and reducing the. bass so that the needle doesn't jump out of the groove. Also, the curve you most commonly see is the reproduction (de-emphasis) curve (the one which slopes downwards) - this is irrelevant, since anything you play the vinyl back on will have this frequency response built-in. The recording curve is the one which matters - I think it should not be too hard to implement the original equation in C, or even using exp~ or fexp~ - just to send it to the lathe.
The problem is that the mechanical nature of vinyl means that, a standard 6dB/octave single-pole highpass filter won't work, because the amplification needed to restore the bass would be too great. It's a sort of "kinked" highpass filter. See this article: http://www.stereophile.com/features/cut_and_thrust_riaa_lp_equalization
Also, the mix must be mono compatible. This mostly means keeping bass frequencies in-phase and trying to make everything below about 220Hz mono.
Metastudio 4. I call that a "lost" metastudio, because I variously did and didn't distribute (leak) it on a personal basis (I was slack/busy, I had kids, you know...)
Metastudio 5 on the other hand, is currently being worked on. New synthesis units based on analogue wavefolding techniques, the tracker sequencer with cut and paste, and the quadtracker - a monster 4-channel tracker style sequencer. I need to write a whole load of help files this time also, and some more explicative performance patches...early 2013
Cheers, Ed Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! http://sharktracks.co.uk/
From: me.grimm megrimm@gmail.com To: Ed Kelly morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk Cc: "pd-list@iem.at" pd-list@iem.at Sent: Friday, 21 December 2012, 14:40 Subject: Re: [PD] mastering to vinyl live w/ pd
hey all thanks for the tips!
nicolas: your phasemeter looks great. i will use that.
but what is a riaa filter then? is there an implementation in pd? from eds link it looks like there is two such curves. one original RIAA curve and the other as RIAA/IEC curve.
btw nicolas your website looks super great and slick. im curious on the topography record you made. any for sale? sound samples?
ed: thanks for reminding me of your metastudio project. i just revisited and remembered all the nice stuff you had going on. were not you promoting a version 4 at one point? what happened to that?
hopefully ill get something cutting over break before the next semester starts!
m
On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 6:57 AM, Ed Kelly morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
These are some abstractions I have made that do some of what you are asking...the compressor~ is vanilla.
Mastering is primarily about developing "golden ears" but you also need to take into account the RIAA curve: http://www.tanker.se/lidstrom/riaa.htm
Remember it's mechanical - I understand that once the RIAA is taken into account, the most pressing issue is bass - extreme bass and the needle jumps, too much and the track is too wide so you get less time. If it's set up wrong then tracks will overlap (but there could be some interesting "jumping record" experiments in there.
Best, Ed Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! http://sharktracks.co.uk/
----- Original Message -----
From: Lorenzo Sutton lorenzofsutton@gmail.com To: pd-list@iem.at Cc: Sent: Wednesday, 19 December 2012, 21:23 Subject: Re: [PD] mastering to vinyl live w/ pd
On 19/12/12 03:10, me.grimm wrote:
does anyone know much about mastering? i dont.....
anyway i have this record recorder/cutter/lathe and was thinking of doing something like this:
Very interesting--- thanks for sharing, I couldn't resist noting (and continuously concentrating) on the ground loop (maybe empathised by the woofer..) I'm not totally sure that was intended though ..
which is funny because i have a similar recorder. although i was thinking just cutting in real-time straight from PD. but to get the best sound maybe i could run it through some kind of "mastering"
patch. has
anyone made such a thing or know best to do in terms of getting decent masters right from PD? I would think something like:
Emulating it as well? I know you lose all the materic thing, but it could be fun.
The voice as heard in the video has something fascinating, it would be interesting to find out what modern digital audio compressions (data such as mp3, ogg etc. can create similar suggetions...)
Lorenzo.
[equilizer~] - but what one? [adaptive/nlms3~]? adaptive_equilization example which im not sure i would know how to use for this | [unauthorized/compressor~] - although there is prob a good vanilla one no? | [expander~] ??? | [exciter~] | [zexy/limiter~] | [hip~ 40] | [lop~ 16000] | [dac~]
but i might just make a mess with this....
m
_______________________________________________ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
-- ____________________ m.e.grimm | m.f.a | ed.m. megrimm@gmail.com _________________________________
On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 1:49 AM, Ed Kelly morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Hey Mark,
RIAA - the original RIAA curve is the one, forget the variants, especially the IEC variety. It's a high-frequency pre-emphasis filter that overcomes the inherent surface noise of vinyl by boosting the HF, and reducing the. bass so that the needle doesn't jump out of the groove.
But doesn't this greatly matter on where on the vinyl you are? As the more inner track takes a much more narrow curve, different frequencies in the surface noise arrise. At least that's how I understand it and why mastering for vinyl is quite a different trade as it is for other media.
drmr
Also, the curve you most commonly see is the reproduction (de-emphasis) curve (the one which slopes downwards) - this is irrelevant, since anything you play the vinyl back on will have this frequency response built-in. The recording curve is the one which matters - I think it should not be too hard to implement the original equation in C, or even using exp~ or fexp~ - just to send it to the lathe.
The problem is that the mechanical nature of vinyl means that, a standard 6dB/octave single-pole highpass filter won't work, because the amplification needed to restore the bass would be too great. It's a sort of "kinked" highpass filter. See this article: http://www.stereophile.com/features/cut_and_thrust_riaa_lp_equalization
Also, the mix must be mono compatible. This mostly means keeping bass frequencies in-phase and trying to make everything below about 220Hz mono.
Metastudio 4. I call that a "lost" metastudio, because I variously did and didn't distribute (leak) it on a personal basis (I was slack/busy, I had kids, you know...)
Metastudio 5 on the other hand, is currently being worked on. New synthesis units based on analogue wavefolding techniques, the tracker sequencer with cut and paste, and the quadtracker - a monster 4-channel tracker style sequencer. I need to write a whole load of help files this time also, and some more explicative performance patches...early 2013
Cheers, Ed
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! http://sharktracks.co.uk/
*From:* me.grimm megrimm@gmail.com *To:* Ed Kelly morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk *Cc:* "pd-list@iem.at" pd-list@iem.at *Sent:* Friday, 21 December 2012, 14:40
*Subject:* Re: [PD] mastering to vinyl live w/ pd
hey all thanks for the tips!
nicolas: your phasemeter looks great. i will use that.
but what is a riaa filter then? is there an implementation in pd? from eds link it looks like there is two such curves. one original RIAA curve and the other as RIAA/IEC curve.
btw nicolas your website looks super great and slick. im curious on the topography record you made. any for sale? sound samples?
ed: thanks for reminding me of your metastudio project. i just revisited and remembered all the nice stuff you had going on. were not you promoting a version 4 at one point? what happened to that?
hopefully ill get something cutting over break before the next semester starts!
m
On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 6:57 AM, Ed Kelly morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
These are some abstractions I have made that do some of what you are asking...the compressor~ is vanilla. Mastering is primarily about developing "golden ears" but you also need to take into account the RIAA curve: http://www.tanker.se/lidstrom/riaa.htm
Remember it's mechanical - I understand that once the RIAA is taken into account, the most pressing issue is bass - extreme bass and the needle jumps, too much and the track is too wide so you get less time. If it's set up wrong then tracks will overlap (but there could be some interesting "jumping record" experiments in there.
Best, Ed
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! http://sharktracks.co.uk/
----- Original Message -----
From: Lorenzo Sutton lorenzofsutton@gmail.com To: pd-list@iem.at Cc: Sent: Wednesday, 19 December 2012, 21:23 Subject: Re: [PD] mastering to vinyl live w/ pd
On 19/12/12 03:10, me.grimm wrote:
does anyone know much about mastering? i dont.....
anyway i have this record recorder/cutter/lathe and was thinking of doing something like this:
Very interesting--- thanks for sharing, I couldn't resist noting (and continuously concentrating) on the ground loop (maybe empathised by the woofer..) I'm not totally sure that was intended though ..
which is funny because i have a similar recorder. although i was thinking just cutting in real-time straight from PD. but to get the
best
sound maybe i could run it through some kind of "mastering"
patch. has
anyone made such a thing or know best to do in terms of getting decent masters right from PD? I would think something like:
Emulating it as well? I know you lose all the materic thing, but it could be fun.
The voice as heard in the video has something fascinating, it would be interesting to find out what modern digital audio compressions (data such as mp3, ogg etc. can create similar suggetions...)
Lorenzo.
[equilizer~] - but what one? [adaptive/nlms3~]? adaptive_equilization example which im not sure i would know how to use for this | [unauthorized/compressor~] - although there is prob a good vanilla one
no?
| [expander~] ??? | [exciter~] | [zexy/limiter~] | [hip~ 40] | [lop~ 16000] | [dac~]
but i might just make a mess with this....
m
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
-- ____________________ m.e.grimm | m.f.a | ed.m. megrimm@gmail.com _________________________________
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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me.grimm -
Nicolas Montgermont -
Richie Cyngler