On Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003, at 16:04 Europe/Brussels, guenter geiger
wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
On Wednesday, Dec 17, 2003, at 14:20 Europe/Brussels, guenter geiger wrote:
On Tue, 16 Dec 2003, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
I have to give props to Kzrysztof Czaja for toxy. His [tot] made
this quite simple. For anyone who wants to port Pd to something other
than Tcl/Tk, I suggest you try toxy. It opens whole new realms of what
Pd can do. Then there is all the other Pd contributors, but I have to stop somewhere otherwise this email will never end.I planned porting at least parts of PD to another GUI toolkit over x-mas, because tcl/tk is too slow for PDa. I hoped it could be of use for the "normal" version too. Of course making tcl/tk scripting work with that is not that easily possible :(
Hmm, maybe you could as tigital is doing and make Tcl/Tk fast on the PDA. But I have no real idea of what that would entail. It is relatively straightforward for MacOS X, the changes are not throughout Tcl.
Yes, this would be a possibility. My understanding is though that
tcl/tk uses float as internal datatype, then I would end up haveing to change too much for a simple christmas holiday task.I am also envisioning a extension of pd towards vector graphics, ala xgui but internally, this would make it possible to nicely seperate engine and GUI, because the drawings are not tcl commands anymore, but messages to a "pd-render" object.
Well, thats all theory, I do not know how far I will get with that.
Ok, that sounds like a very cool idea, I am all for making as much of
Pd be 'Pure Data' as possible. By making more of the GUI in the realm
of Pd messages, then it would allow [widget]-like functionality with
native Pd msgs, while being GUI toolkit agnostic. But that is also
probably not a holiday task.
.hc
Guenter
.hc
Guenter
.hc
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On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Well, thats all theory, I do not know how far I will get with that.
Ok, that sounds like a very cool idea, I am all for making as much of Pd be 'Pure Data' as possible. By making more of the GUI in the realm of Pd messages, then it would allow [widget]-like functionality with native Pd msgs, while being GUI toolkit agnostic. But that is also probably not a holiday task.
yes, thats exactly what xgui already does, its just a question of implementing this idea efficiently. nothing new ..
The ultimate goal would be to be able to build your director-like GUI within pd directly. .. or implement a flashplayer etc .. :)
well, dreams, we'll see how far I get ...
Guenter
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, guenter geiger wrote:
Ok, that sounds like a very cool idea, I am all for making as much of Pd be 'Pure Data' as possible. By making more of the GUI in the realm of Pd messages, then it would allow [widget]-like functionality with native Pd msgs, while being GUI toolkit agnostic. But that is also probably not a holiday task.
yes, thats exactly what xgui already does, its just a question of implementing this idea efficiently. nothing new ..
ah, yes, and of course the template stuff does the same thing .. mhh, I have to get my head around all of this first. One task after the other..
Guetner
The ultimate goal would be to be able to build your director-like GUI within pd directly. .. or implement a flashplayer etc .. :)
well, dreams, we'll see how far I get ...
Guenter
PD-list mailing list PD-list@iem.at http://iem.at/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pd-list
Hallo, guenter geiger hat gesagt: // guenter geiger wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, guenter geiger wrote:
Ok, that sounds like a very cool idea, I am all for making as much of Pd be 'Pure Data' as possible. By making more of the GUI in the realm of Pd messages, then it would allow [widget]-like functionality with native Pd msgs, while being GUI toolkit agnostic. But that is also probably not a holiday task.
yes, thats exactly what xgui already does, its just a question of implementing this idea efficiently. nothing new ..
ah, yes, and of course the template stuff does the same thing ..
Which is, what I would like to mention, too. The template stuff is quite cool, unfourtunatly it is really hard to understand deeply and doesn't cope well with Graph-on-parent patches in my (small) experience.
But: It is independent of the toolkit, Pd uses. It's a whole new syntax, that seems quite flexible.
If it only would find more users, so the rough edges can be found and smoothed out...
I don't think, something so tied to a toolkit as toxy is the way to go in the long run.
ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__
hi,
right, there is nothing in toxy, which should make anybody think: this is the way to go about a gui for Pd.
One goal of the widget part of toxy is to have a proper ``performance gui'' (as in gripd) integrated with the Pd editor (as in max) -- sort of a hybrid of the two paradigms. This would ever be just a client of whatever shape the Pd gui takes at the moment.
(The main goal of the widget part, however, is to promote the idea of a performer's and composer's widget set -- widgets being reusable plug-ins, a standard protocol for connecting them to a host, etc. This is still a very vague idea, though.)
Tot is just (an extremely simple) way of extending (the already present) communication between the two layers of Pd, by means of scripting. Scripting is done in tcl, but switching to anything else is trivial. Tot is in no way dependent on tk.
The plustot part, which I am about to release soon, is all about tcl, indeed, but has nothing to do with the Pd gui.
Krzysztof
Frank Barknecht wrote: ...
I don't think, something so tied to a toolkit as toxy is the way to go in the long run.
On Thursday, Dec 18, 2003, at 03:08 Europe/Brussels, Frank Barknecht
wrote:
Hallo, guenter geiger hat gesagt: // guenter geiger wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, guenter geiger wrote:
Ok, that sounds like a very cool idea, I am all for making as much
of Pd be 'Pure Data' as possible. By making more of the GUI in the
realm of Pd messages, then it would allow [widget]-like functionality with native Pd msgs, while being GUI toolkit agnostic. But that is also probably not a holiday task.yes, thats exactly what xgui already does, its just a question of implementing this idea efficiently. nothing new ..
ah, yes, and of course the template stuff does the same thing ..
Which is, what I would like to mention, too. The template stuff is quite cool, unfourtunatly it is really hard to understand deeply and doesn't cope well with Graph-on-parent patches in my (small) experience.
But: It is independent of the toolkit, Pd uses. It's a whole new syntax, that seems quite flexible.
If it only would find more users, so the rough edges can be found and smoothed out...
I don't think, something so tied to a toolkit as toxy is the way to go in the long run.
Guenter's pd-render idea opens whole new doors and is of course
ultimately the way to go, but it'll be a while before we get there.
Mostly I was responding to calls to port Pd to something different,
like wxWindows, which without pd-render would be a lot of work for
little gain.
toxy demonstrates what could be possible in a generic way with
pd-render, but is working now, and there is a lot to be said for that.
I have begun to think about the Pd structure as similar to TCP/IP: keep
everything as general as possible and make the intelligence at the
ends. If everything in Pd communicates using Pd messages, it makes the
whole system generic and open to uses that where totally unanticipated
by its creators. This will ultimately lead to the greatest innovation.
.hc
There is no way to peace, peace is the way.
-A.J. Muste
i gotta say this is a terrific idea, good luck with it. this is the first real compelling argument i've heard for changing the way the gui operates.
-josh
guenter geiger wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Well, thats all theory, I do not know how far I will get with that.
Ok, that sounds like a very cool idea, I am all for making as much of Pd be 'Pure Data' as possible. By making more of the GUI in the realm of Pd messages, then it would allow [widget]-like functionality with native Pd msgs, while being GUI toolkit agnostic. But that is also probably not a holiday task.
yes, thats exactly what xgui already does, its just a question of implementing this idea efficiently. nothing new ..
The ultimate goal would be to be able to build your director-like GUI within pd directly. .. or implement a flashplayer etc .. :)
well, dreams, we'll see how far I get ...
Guenter
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Frank Barknecht -
guenter geiger -
Hans-Christoph Steiner -
Josh Steiner -
Krzysztof Czaja