On Dec 2, 2008, at 8:54 AM, Damian Stewart wrote:

Ilias Anagnostopoulos wrote:

...

Hello IOhannes,

Actually, I've been wondering about this myself. What do you mean
with "configure the window manager"? As in people changing this
manually on their computer settings, or as in hard-coded in the PD code?

The vast majority of applications have pop-ups appearing on top of
old windows, except from PD, on the same computer. Does it have to do
with tk/tcl?

-Ilias

This kind of behavior is largely controlled by Tcl/Tk, which has
pretty good tools for handling it, and making things feel natural on
each platform. This is the kind of stuff I want to tackle next.

there's something severly busted with Pd's usage of Tcl/Tk. under
Ubuntu i have Alt-` rigged up as my cycle-between-windows-of-an-application key (like Alt-Tab but restricted to windows of the current
application), and it works on every application except for Pd.

the same problem is present with Pd-Vanilla on OSX (as in, the
Apple-key doesn't cycle through Pd windows), and is half-broken on Pd-extended (Apple- works until you hit the main Pd window, then it breaks).

Yeah, Pd doesn't look at the global GNOME settings. I suppose it
would be possible to have it check the GNOME settings. One thing
that I want to do is work on tighter GNOME integration, so perhaps
that would be a good thing to do.

But if you want to add the Alt-` binding its quite easy. In pd.tk
around line 1676, you will see this:

 if {$pd_nt == 2} {
     bind $name.c <Mod1-Key> {pdtk_canvas_ctrlkey %W %K 0}
     bind $name.c <Mod1-Shift-Key> {pdtk_canvas_ctrlkey %W %K 1}
     bind $name.c <Mod1-BackSpace> {pdtk_canvas_sendkey %W 1 %K % 

A 0} bind $name.c <Mod1-quoteleft> {menu_raisenextwindow} }

Change it to look like this and you'll have Alt-` as you like:

 if {$pd_nt == 2} {
     bind $name.c <Mod1-Key> {pdtk_canvas_ctrlkey %W %K 0}
     bind $name.c <Mod1-Shift-Key> {pdtk_canvas_ctrlkey %W %K 1}
     bind $name.c <Mod1-BackSpace> {pdtk_canvas_sendkey %W 1 %K % 

A 0} bind $name.c <Mod1-quoteleft> {menu_raisenextwindow} } else { bind $name.c <Alt-quoteleft> {menu_raisenextwindow} }

Hans-Cristoph Steiner, Chun Lee, and myself (where i can) are in
the early planning stages of a project to rebuild pd.tk to take care of some
of these issues, and to clean things up to make them more easily extensible.
more people are welcome to join in the fun, post on pd-dev if you like.

It is true that we having been talking about this for a while, a lot
of these discussions have been off of lists because there are some
sensitive politics that we wanted to avoid inflaming. But as far as
I know, everyone is cool with it, so I think now is the time to open
things up and make it a community effort.

.hc

d

-- damian stewart | skype: damiansnz | damian@frey.co.nz frey | live art with machines | http://www.frey.co.nz

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IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:

Ilias Anagnostopoulos wrote:

...

Hello IOhannes,

Actually, I've been wondering about this myself. What do you mean with "configure the window manager"? As in people changing this manually on their computer settings, or as in hard-coded in the PD code?

no it has nothing to do with Pd. with "configure your window manager", i mean literally "configure your window manager".

the window manager is the application that manages your windows (hence the name :-)), e.g. window decoration, window positioning, window focusing...

how the wm can be configured is highly depending on the wm itself. e.g. on kde you can control the wm (kwin) via the kcontrol center. since this is my main wm, i don't know about others.

under gnome, you can most likely set this via system->windows (or whatever).

no, you can't. and searching gconf-editor for 'metacity' doesn't bring up any clues either.

as i posted into pd-dev, i think it's actually a bug in the way the Pd and Tcl/Tk communicate (or miscommunicate i think is the more appropriate term). under Gnome i have Alt-` set up to cycle through the windows of the current application key (as opposed to Alt-Tab which cycles through _all_ windows of _all_ applications). this key works with everything, *except* with Pd . under OSX with Pd-vanilla, you get the same problem. it's half-fixed with Pd-extended, in that it will cycle until you reach the main Pd window, then it stops and won't go any further.

i think these issues are related.