they are really quite expensive - anyway, comparing with the other
sollutions. Although it is possible to choose midi with better resolution,
I don't know if the resolution would be better as with hid devices
(probably anyone else has the answer to that).
I believe you can find alternatives to those here:
http://infusionsystems.com/catalog/index.php
Although expensive, I am not totally sure of this but I believe the great advantage of I-CubeX is that their sensor's signal can be easily
converted to MIDI which makes them very easy to use in any kind of software,
including PD.
On Wed, 21 Dec 2005, João Miguel Pais wrote:
http://infusionsystems.com/catalog/index.php Although expensive, I am not totally sure of this but I believe the great
they are really quite expensive - anyway, comparing with the other sollutions. Although it is possible to choose midi with better resolution, I don't know if the resolution would be better as with hid devices (probably anyone else has the answer to that).
That's really an understatement. They're ripping you off. They have plain boring LEDs that they have branded as SeeGreen(tm) and that they are charging 28,53 USD (24,12 EUR; 33,28 CAD) per LED. Even though each such LED bulb comes with its own cable, still 90%-99% of this is paying for the brandname (depending on the quality of the components).
If instead you go to a no-bullshit shop then you can prolly negociate a shovelful of LEDs for the same price.
_ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801 - http://artengine.ca/matju | Freelance Digital Arts Engineer, Montréal QC Canada
Le 22 Décembre 2005 00:22, Mathieu Bouchard a écrit :
On Wed, 21 Dec 2005, João Miguel Pais wrote:
http://infusionsystems.com/catalog/index.php Although expensive, I am not totally sure of this but I believe the great
they are really quite expensive - anyway, comparing with the other sollutions. Although it is possible to choose midi with better resolution, I don't know if the resolution would be better as with hid devices (probably anyone else has the answer to that).
That's really an understatement. They're ripping you off. They have plain boring LEDs that they have branded as SeeGreen(tm) and that they are charging 28,53 USD (24,12 EUR; 33,28 CAD) per LED. Even though each such LED bulb comes with its own cable, still 90%-99% of this is paying for the brandname (depending on the quality of the components).
If instead you go to a no-bullshit shop then you can prolly negociate a shovelful of LEDs for the same price.
The Infusion Systems products are nicely designed. For education,
especially for people scared to death by anything electric, it's perfect.
Give them a shovelful of LEDS and they won't use them (althought some
artists might stick a handful on their "mix media" paintings). So there's a
specific market for this product. Think about all the junk food that's
ripping off hackers; most of them are not willing to bake their own potato
chips and mix their own sugared fizzy water...
--
Marc
On Thu, 22 Dec 2005, Marc Lavallée wrote:
So there's a specific market for this product. Think about all the junk food that's ripping off hackers; most of them are not willing to bake their own potato chips and mix their own sugared fizzy water...
Well, maybe it's just because I don't really like potato chips and sugared fizzy water anymore, but I don't approve that food either. And just because some stereotype of hackers is into that kind of food doesn't justify it nor justify selling LEDs at ludicrous prices.
And of course, just because there's a market doesn't make it right. You should know, you know more markets than I do.
_ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801 - http://artengine.ca/matju | Freelance Digital Arts Engineer, Montréal QC Canada
Le 22 Décembre 2005 08:16, Mathieu Bouchard a écrit :
On Thu, 22 Dec 2005, Marc Lavallée wrote:
So there's a specific market for this product. Think about all the junk food that's ripping off hackers; most of them are not willing to bake their own potato chips and mix their own sugared fizzy water...
Well, maybe it's just because I don't really like potato chips and sugared fizzy water anymore, but I don't approve that food either. And just because some stereotype of hackers is into that kind of food doesn't justify it nor justify selling LEDs at ludicrous prices.
And of course, just because there's a market doesn't make it right.
Infusion System is still in business and have new products. Appart from the expensive LEDS (and probably other devices), I wouldn't say that it's completely wrong business. The Wi-miniDig seems a good idea. There's a lot of stereotypic artists out there that love that kind of electronics.
You should know, you know more markets than I do.
I know that some industrial markets are comparable or more expensive. For many newbies, Infusion Systems products are a good choice.
Le 22 Décembre 2005 08:21, Christian Klippel a écrit :
anyway, if we would take the fast-food example vs. the icube price: a hamburger would costs about 30 dollars, and an extra 10 dollars for the nice packaging.
My example was potato chips; it's harder to cook... Since we don't eat LEDs everyday, it's possible to pay more without going bankrupt; that's why some people are willing to pay. Like stereotypic hackers hate cooking, stereotypic artists hate soldering; of course, the market is smaller, but big enough for a microscopic business like Infusion Systems.
on ebay (at least in de) you can grab whoe sets of led's. they usually sell them in quantities of one hundred, including a resistor per led. the price is about 25 euro for that.
They were probably made in China. What would be your price to assemble a hundred LEDs?
even the construction of the infusion stuff isnt qualifying for that price. a piece of hose that shrinks when heated, so that the cables wont bend at the connections. thats common practice.....
It's common practice in your business...
it is ok when ready-built things cost a bit more. but that stuff is really just a rip-off.
Then globalization is our friend...
Marc
there's a lot of off-topic discussion here lately.
isn't there a separate off topic list???
On 12/22/05, hard off hard.off@gmail.com wrote:
there's a lot of off-topic discussion here lately.
huh? the thread seemed pretty on-topic until your comment. but now that its derailed, how about we not mention anything like sensors, or audio interfaces, or video cards etc any more. since theyre clearly not related to the core of PD which is of course just data, and not all this other crap...
cheers :)
isn't there a separate off topic list???
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
hi,
Am Donnerstag 22 Dezember 2005 15:30 schrieb Marc Lavallée:
[...snip...]
My example was potato chips; it's harder to cook... Since we don't eat LEDs everyday, it's possible to pay more without going bankrupt; that's why some people are willing to pay. Like stereotypic hackers hate cooking, stereotypic artists hate soldering; of course, the market is smaller, but big enough for a microscopic business like Infusion Systems.
on ebay (at least in de) you can grab whoe sets of led's. they usually sell them in quantities of one hundred, including a resistor per led. the price is about 25 euro for that.
They were probably made in China.
most led's are produced in china or taiwan. the few producers that are not from there have comparable prices either, so that cant be the cause.
What would be your price to assemble a hundred LEDs?
are you joking? but if you really want to know, that would be a little below 1 euro, including material & time... after all, soldering one assembly id about 1 minutes, 2 minutes max. but i wont do that on a regular basis, because im not a company.
but the point is not what it costs if one does it in home-work vs. a ready-made product. the point is that even for a ready-made thing there is an upper-limit, imho. there are quite some other sources for such ready-built assemblies..... just look at all these robotic sites&shops. hey, even digikey offers to make such assemblies "on demand" and it only costs a fraction of the infusionsystems stuff.
even the construction of the infusion stuff isnt qualifying for that price. a piece of hose that shrinks when heated, so that the cables wont bend at the connections. thats common practice.....
It's common practice in your business...
what is "my business"? even the cheapest harddisk-led of a cheap computer case is assembled that way. its common practice in "that" business.
it is ok when ready-built things cost a bit more. but that stuff is really just a rip-off.
Then globalization is our friend...
Marc
not necessarily ....
anyhow, that thread got far off-topic now ..... ;)
greets,
chris
hi,
Am Donnerstag 22 Dezember 2005 13:40 schrieb Marc Lavallée:
Le 22 Décembre 2005 00:22, Mathieu Bouchard a écrit :
On Wed, 21 Dec 2005, João Miguel Pais wrote:
http://infusionsystems.com/catalog/index.php Although expensive, I am not totally sure of this but I believe the great
they are really quite expensive - anyway, comparing with the other sollutions. Although it is possible to choose midi with better resolution, I don't know if the resolution would be better as with hid devices (probably anyone else has the answer to that).
That's really an understatement. They're ripping you off. They have plain boring LEDs that they have branded as SeeGreen(tm) and that they are charging 28,53 USD (24,12 EUR; 33,28 CAD) per LED. Even though each such LED bulb comes with its own cable, still 90%-99% of this is paying for the brandname (depending on the quality of the components).
If instead you go to a no-bullshit shop then you can prolly negociate a shovelful of LEDs for the same price.
The Infusion Systems products are nicely designed. For education, especially for people scared to death by anything electric, it's perfect. Give them a shovelful of LEDS and they won't use them (althought some artists might stick a handful on their "mix media" paintings). So there's a specific market for this product. Think about all the junk food that's ripping off hackers; most of them are not willing to bake their own potato chips and mix their own sugared fizzy water... -- Marc
led's with a wire and plug are absolutely common: look inside a pc and you will see. they are used to show the power status, hdd led, etc....
anyway, if we would take the fast-food example vs. the icube price: a hamburger would costs about 30 dollars, and an extra 10 dollars for the nice packaging.
on ebay (at least in de) you can grab whoe sets of led's. they usually sell them in quantities of one hundred, including a resistor per led. the price is about 25 euro for that.
even the construction of the infusion stuff isnt qualifying for that price. a piece of hose that shrinks when heated, so that the cables wont bend at the connections. thats common practice.....
it is ok when ready-built things cost a bit more. but that stuff is really just a rip-off.
greets,
chris
On Thu, 22 Dec 2005, Christian Klippel wrote:
anyway, if we would take the fast-food example vs. the icube price: a hamburger would costs about 30 dollars, and an extra 10 dollars for the nice packaging. on ebay (at least in de) you can grab whoe sets of led's. they usually sell them in quantities of one hundred, including a resistor per led. the price is about 25 euro for that.
Correcting the proportions: that would be 300 dollars for the hamburger. add 25 dollars for relish and another 25 dollars to get it shipped to your table.
_ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801 - http://artengine.ca/matju | Freelance Digital Arts Engineer, Montréal QC Canada
Hi,
I first started using PD a couple of weeks ago because I am building a small interactive video project which needs to read values from a bend-sensor.
To be more specific, I will have PD play a video loop. If you blow on the bend-sensor (attached to a paper sheet which will work as a sail), PD will show different video loops. It will have different video loops for different blowing strengths. Once you stop blowing it will switch back to the initial video loop.
So basically I just need to receive inputs from a sensor. I am not into electronics so I wouldn't want to build my own sensors controller. Also, although I am a programmer I'd rather not have to learn to build complex programs in order to just read a simple sensor into PD. My question is: which solution or solutions would you advise me to use?
At the same time if I'm buying something I'd like to be able to use it in the future for other interactive projects I may do in the future so the solution I choose should be flexible.
I knew about I-CubeX but it's way to expensive.
I knew about TELEO but forgot about them when I learned that it didn't use MIDI. Now I was told that after all MIDI is not even a good solution since it is so slow so maybe TELEO is fine after all. Alto it seems to be modular enough to grow with my future needs. Would you use TELEO? I asked MakingThings (they build TELEO) if Teleo supports PD and they told me it doesn't but they eventually plan to add support to PD in the future. Do you know if I can still use TELEO with PD using HID or something else and if it is reasonable to use it for my purposes?
I read about Arduino but I got a little scared with the online examples because it seems that you have to program the board even to read a simple sensor. Isn't this overkill for what I want? I also read about home-built controllers. I guess I could learn how to do it, but I am working on so many projects at the same time and have so few time that I'd rather be working on an upper lever of abstraction instead of reinventing the wheel. Anyway maybe I'm wrong. What do you think?
I heard about Christian Klippel's MultIO and heard it's good but I know nothing about it. Would it do what I need?
So, after all my loose ideas: What controller would you advise me to use? Also, do you know where I can buy a nice bend sensor?
Thank you! Nuno
hi nuno,
Am Freitag 23 Dezember 2005 13:34 schrieb Nuno Godinho:
[...snip...]
I knew about TELEO but forgot about them when I learned that it didn't use MIDI. Now I was told that after all MIDI is not even a good solution since it is so slow so maybe TELEO is fine after all. Alto it seems to be modular enough to grow with my future needs. Would you use TELEO? I asked MakingThings (they build TELEO) if Teleo supports PD and they told me it doesn't but they eventually plan to add support to PD in the future. Do you know if I can still use TELEO with PD using HID or something else and if it is reasonable to use it for my purposes?
I read about Arduino but I got a little scared with the online examples because it seems that you have to program the board even to read a simple sensor. Isn't this overkill for what I want? I also read about home-built controllers. I guess I could learn how to do it, but I am working on so many projects at the same time and have so few time that I'd rather be working on an upper lever of abstraction instead of reinventing the wheel. Anyway maybe I'm wrong. What do you think?
I heard about Christian Klippel's MultIO and heard it's good but I know nothing about it. Would it do what I need?
So, after all my loose ideas: What controller would you advise me to use? Also, do you know where I can buy a nice bend sensor?
it somewhat depends on how you want it to use in the future. youre talking about just one sensor, while all these solutions provide inputs for serveral sensors. since i can speak only for myself, and thus the multio: if you intend to use more sensor/button/light/etc... stuff in the future, it would be an option for you. it costs more than the arduino (and maybe other, smaller units as well), but is cheaper than most other, bigger units. its no problem that you can get a unit that is ready-to-use, no need that you have to solder it yourself. if youre interrested, contact me off-list.
as for the bend-sensors:
http://www.imagesco.com/catalog/flex/FlexSensors.html
but since you are going to meassure air-flow/pressure, you could also use pressure-sensor:
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/taxonomy.jsp?nodeId=01126990368716
you probably want one with 10 kpa maximum to get a usable readout. not that they are available as free samples ;-) id suggest you to grab one with a unibody case, like the mpx5010dp (dp = dual port, one side is sensitive to positive pressure (blow), the other to negative-pressure (suck))
Thank you! Nuno
greetings,
chris
-
c -
Christian Klippel -
hard off -
João Miguel Pais -
Marc Lavallée -
Mathieu Bouchard -
Nuno Godinho