yves, I haven't noticed anything offensive on the list like you describe (maybe you're mixing life on the streets with life on the pd-list? :))
hi David and all, I don't know if you didn't follow some threads but here are some examples of greasy jokes:
From: João Miguel Pais jmmmpais@googlemail.com Date: Tue, October 9, 2007 1:29 pm
- do you know how many feminists are necessary to change a lightbulb? 2:
One to change the lightbulb, and one to s**k my c**k. [I think all users are old enough to read this, and at least it's a humorous tone, not purely offensive like some mails in the last weeks]
I am not old enough to consider this a joke and I am quite old ;-) but ok I also know I don't have a good sense of humor
Subject: Re: [PD] about pd From: "Andy Farnell" padawan12@obiwannabe.co.uk Date: Fri, October 12, 2007 5:15 am
Edmund: Baldrick, fetch my Incredibly Strong Ale...!
Monk: Good god! Not Dr McGloo's Amber Enema...?
Edmund: Pah! -- a drink for schoolgirls...
Partridge: Surely not Strollop's Lobster Scrumpy...?
Edmund: No -- it is Blackadder's Bowel Basher!
\runs off singing "I'm Merlin, The Happy Pig!"
and not to forget the call for 'sexy' externals included in some mail that I will not repeat.
I am very sorry to keep on with this discussion but I would like to ask the list to consider that some of us are trying to use the mailing list as an educational resource, so when there are toasts for school girls, and some consensus about laughing together on silly anti feminist jokes just to name a few factors... err I don't think this works anymore.
I really didn't want to post another OT but to be blind about the facts is just a bit too much for me to keep silent.
best, Alejandra
so to hell if you're not concerned how girls are treated in the pd community ( actually just as meat and object of greasy jokes ), so again, yeh, sorry, they won't participate to nothing here!
yves, I haven't noticed anything offensive on the list like you describe (maybe you're mixing life on the streets with life on the pd-list? :)) In my experience the discussion here is respectful and helpful, and it's *usually* about PD... I agree that there's no point in agitating to prematurely end a relevant discussion - but personally I got bored a while ago, and I don't think this thread is on-topic anymore (bored/irritated != disturbed). I think it would be a better use of everyone's time to get back to discussing Pure Data. best,
-David M.
MIT Media Lab dmerrill@media.mit.edu http://web.media.mit.edu/~dmerrill/ http://web.media.mit.edu/%7Edmerrill/ _______________________________________________ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
hey ho
let me switch in again. it was not my intention to stop a thread in a dictatorship way. i just noticed, that the discussion meandered through very different subject-matters, that weren't related anymore at all to the original topic 'sexism', and it seems, that it wasn't coming to a point. since this is still a list about pd, i proposed in a not so serious way to bury that thread, since a real discussion obviously couldn't be established.
On Tue, 2007-10-16 at 19:38 +0200, pueblo@mail.ljudmila.org wrote:
yves, I haven't noticed anything offensive on the list like you describe (maybe you're mixing life on the streets with life on the pd-list? :))
hi David and all, I don't know if you didn't follow some threads but here are some examples of greasy jokes:
yo, i am glad, that you bring some realworld cases up. i think, this could be a basis for a real discussion.
From: João Miguel Pais jmmmpais@googlemail.com Date: Tue, October 9, 2007 1:29 pm
- do you know how many feminists are necessary to change a lightbulb? 2:
One to change the lightbulb, and one to s**k my c**k. [I think all users are old enough to read this, and at least it's a humorous tone, not purely offensive like some mails in the last weeks]
i don't know, how obvious this was, but i am pretty sure, that in the first place it wasn't jmmmp's intention to make bad jokes, that insult feminists. i would rather say, that he, as probably some others, felt, that this discussion was going to nowhere and probably wanted to provocate a discussion by bringing up the most stupid macho joke (or whatever this should be called) he could think of. obviously he succeeded. i wouldn't count that as an example of chauvinism in the list, since it seems, that it was triggered by the topic 'sexism' in order to question the ongoing discussion.
accusing him of chauvinism would be too simple in that case, though i do not approve sending such sentences to a public mailing list, regardless of the intention.
I really didn't want to post another OT but to be blind about the facts is just a bit too much for me to keep silent.
i think, the whole community would agree, that whatever is troubling someone in a serious manner, it should be brought up here.
roman
___________________________________________________________ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de
Hi people
If this thread has to continue please feel free to substitute the word 'girls' for 'women' or 'sisters' even. I am not sure what the count is but I can imagine that there are very few actual girls on this list (that would be pretty cool though...bunch of lurking little girls, hi, hi).
I am in my mid twenties and I don't really like being called 'girl'. A girl is a female child... The other women on this list may not agree with this or they may not even care about it one single bit or they may even be annoyed that I am bringing it up (if this is the case then sorry ladies)...
My little sister who is 15 (and fond of gem) is someone who I consider a girl or maybe even a young lady....If there were more like her on this list then maybe girl would be the right term...To be honest though, I wouldn't recommend that she join this list at this point in her life...This thread makes my skin crawl.
xo
Darsh
On 10/16/07, Roman Haefeli reduzierer@yahoo.de wrote:
hey ho
let me switch in again. it was not my intention to stop a thread in a dictatorship way. i just noticed, that the discussion meandered through very different subject-matters, that weren't related anymore at all to the original topic 'sexism', and it seems, that it wasn't coming to a point. since this is still a list about pd, i proposed in a not so serious way to bury that thread, since a real discussion obviously couldn't be established.
On Tue, 2007-10-16 at 19:38 +0200, pueblo@mail.ljudmila.org wrote:
yves, I haven't noticed anything offensive on the list like you describe
(maybe
you're mixing life on the streets with life on the pd-list? :))
hi David and all, I don't know if you didn't follow some threads but here are some
examples
of greasy jokes:
yo, i am glad, that you bring some realworld cases up. i think, this could be a basis for a real discussion.
From: João Miguel Pais jmmmpais@googlemail.com Date: Tue, October 9, 2007 1:29 pm
- do you know how many feminists are necessary to change a lightbulb? 2:
One to change the lightbulb, and one to s**k my c**k. [I think all users are old enough to read this, and at least it's a humorous tone, not purely offensive like some mails in the last weeks]
i don't know, how obvious this was, but i am pretty sure, that in the first place it wasn't jmmmp's intention to make bad jokes, that insult feminists. i would rather say, that he, as probably some others, felt, that this discussion was going to nowhere and probably wanted to provocate a discussion by bringing up the most stupid macho joke (or whatever this should be called) he could think of. obviously he succeeded. i wouldn't count that as an example of chauvinism in the list, since it seems, that it was triggered by the topic 'sexism' in order to question the ongoing discussion.
accusing him of chauvinism would be too simple in that case, though i do not approve sending such sentences to a public mailing list, regardless of the intention.
I really didn't want to post another OT but to be blind about the facts
is
just a bit too much for me to keep silent.
i think, the whole community would agree, that whatever is troubling someone in a serious manner, it should be brought up here.
roman
Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de
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On Wed, 2007-10-17 at 00:19 -0400, .·:*šš*:·.darsha.·:*šš*:·. wrote:
Hi people
[...]
..This thread makes my skin crawl.
xo
Darsh
could you tell us, what it is, that makes your skin crawl? the fact, that there is such a thread at all? the way, it is discussed? the mentioned examples of sexism? i am confused.
roman
___________________________________________________________ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de
Hi everybody,
Maybe I have no valid opinion because I just lurk on this list, but I don't appreciate being called "girl" either, I'm in my mid-twenties also. And as far as the thread making anybody's skin crawl, I agree with Darsh. The kind of terms and attitudes being thrown around about gang-bangs and gross sex make me not want to join in any discussions. It's just like my supercollider class in college where I was one of two women, and the professor kept discussing what one should do to be a real "jock" programmer, and everything had to be so macho. It just seems dumb. And to whoever it was that said something about "This is how we talk on the street", first of all, I don't believe you, and second of all, this isn't the street.
Anyway, darsh, I know where you're coming from.
thanks everybody, Alicia
On Wed, 2007-10-17 at 00:19 -0400, .·:*¨¨*:·.darsha.·:*¨¨*:·. wrote:
Hi people
[...]
..This thread makes my skin crawl.
xo
Darsh
could you tell us, what it is, that makes your skin crawl? the fact, that there is such a thread at all? the way, it is discussed? the mentioned examples of sexism? i am confused.
roman
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On Tue, 2007-10-16 at 23:22 -0700, Alicia Byer wrote:
Hi everybody,
Maybe I have no valid opinion because I just lurk on this list, but I don't appreciate being called "girl" either, I'm in my mid-twenties also. And as far as the thread making anybody's skin crawl, I agree with Darsh. The kind of terms and attitudes being thrown around about gang-bangs and gross sex make me not want to join in any discussions.
i think, the best thing you could do about it is to just tell immediately, if you encounter something, that troubles you. please do not just ignore it. things can only be changed, if they are labeled/specifed/named. i can understand, that you would rather stay a way from such a thread, but by reacting to bad behaviour, the consciousness of the community about such issues will grow. and i am pretty sure, that the majority of the list would agree with you. once this kind of sense is established, i think noone would like to use words like 'gang bang' in his/her mails anymore.
roman
Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de
Hi everybody,
Maybe I have no valid opinion because I just lurk on this list, but I don't appreciate being called "girl" either, I'm in my mid-twenties also. And I agree with Darsh and Alejandra. The kind of terms and attitudes being thrown around about gang-bangs and gross sex make me not want to join in any discussions. It seems designed to keep me out. It's just like my supercollider class in college where I was one of two women, and the professor kept discussing what one should do to be a real "jock" programmer, and everything had to be so macho all the time. I guess it's just "male bonding" but it's excluding others that want to learn. I am just sick of this attitude from some guys that women can't be real composers, musicians, programmers, whatever. I mean.. It's 2007!!! Not the stone age.
Anyway, darsh, I know where you're coming from.
thanks everybody, Alicia
.·:*šš*:·.darsha.·:*šš*:·. wrote:
Hi people
If this thread has to continue please feel free to substitute the word 'girls' for 'women' or 'sisters' even. I am not sure what the count is but I can imagine that there are very few actual girls on this list (that would be pretty cool though...bunch of lurking little girls, hi, hi).
I am in my mid twenties and I don't really like being called 'girl'.
A girl is a female child... The other women on this list may not agree with this or they may not even care about it one single bit or they may even be annoyed that I am bringing it up (if this is the case then sorry ladies)...My little sister who is 15 (and fond of gem) is someone who I consider a girl or maybe even a young lady....If there were more like her on this list then maybe girl would be the right term...To be honest though, I wouldn't recommend that she join this list at this point in her life...This thread makes my skin crawl.
xo
Darsh
On 10/16/07, *Roman Haefeli* <reduzierer@yahoo.de mailto:reduzierer@yahoo.de> wrote:
hey ho let me switch in again. it was not my intention to stop a thread in a dictatorship way. i just noticed, that the discussion meandered through very different subject-matters, that weren't related anymore at all to the original topic 'sexism', and it seems, that it wasn't coming to a point. since this is still a list about pd, i proposed in a not so serious way to bury that thread, since a real discussion obviously couldn't be established. On Tue, 2007-10-16 at 19:38 +0200, pueblo@mail.ljudmila.org <mailto:pueblo@mail.ljudmila.org> wrote: > > yves, > > I haven't noticed anything offensive on the list like you describe (maybe > > you're mixing life on the streets with life on the pd-list? :)) > > hi David and all, > I don't know if you didn't follow some threads but here are some examples > of greasy jokes: yo, i am glad, that you bring some realworld cases up. i think, this could be a basis for a real discussion. > From: João Miguel Pais <jmmmpais@googlemail.com <mailto:jmmmpais@googlemail.com>> > Date: Tue, October 9, 2007 1:29 pm > > - do you know how many feminists are necessary to change a lightbulb? 2: > One to change the lightbulb, and one to s**k my c**k. > [I think all users are old enough to read this, and at least it's a > humorous tone, not purely offensive like some mails in the last weeks] i don't know, how obvious this was, but i am pretty sure, that in the first place it wasn't jmmmp's intention to make bad jokes, that insult feminists. i would rather say, that he, as probably some others, felt, that this discussion was going to nowhere and probably wanted to provocate a discussion by bringing up the most stupid macho joke (or whatever this should be called) he could think of. obviously he succeeded. i wouldn't count that as an example of chauvinism in the list, since it seems, that it was triggered by the topic 'sexism' in order to question the ongoing discussion. accusing him of chauvinism would be too simple in that case, though i do not approve sending such sentences to a public mailing list, regardless of the intention. > I really didn't want to post another OT but to be blind about the facts is > just a bit too much for me to keep silent. i think, the whole community would agree, that whatever is troubling someone in a serious manner, it should be brought up here. roman ___________________________________________________________ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de _______________________________________________ PD-list@iem.at <mailto:PD-list@iem.at> mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list-- ~computer incantations for world peace~ JL Ponty
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-
.·:*¨¨*:·.darsha.·:*¨¨*:·. -
Alicia Byer -
Patrice Colet -
pueblo＠mail.ljudmila.org -
Roman Haefeli