Sometime in the last few months, PDB has stopped working for me. No matter what query I type, I get no results. The [ALL EXTERNALS WITH COMPLETE ENTIRES] link gives a 404. I know this used to work, and I've seen people talking about pdb like it still works, so what gives? Is there some basic browser setting I've munged? I'm using Firefox, on both XP and Tiger.
Thanks,
Phil
Phil Stone wrote:
Sometime in the last few months, PDB has stopped working for me. No matter what query I type, I get no results. The [ALL EXTERNALS WITH COMPLETE ENTIRES] link gives a 404. I know this used to work, and I've seen people talking about pdb like it still works, so what gives? Is there some basic browser setting I've munged? I'm using Firefox, on both XP and Tiger.,
oops, this is my fault: the database is actually down. (we had a hardware-failure and re-installed everything from scratch; the database should have been backuped, however it did not go online again)
the reason why i was reluctant to get it up again in the second place (first were pressing things to do), is that i would very much prefer to get the entire database onto puredata.info AND in a different form, where people can submit there "objects" in their homedirectories and they would get automatically added to the list of objects.
most likely we can just use keywords for this (just like with the "pd-art"); we are open to any suggestions how to do it better and even more open to people who are able and willing to implement such features in the existing zope/plone framework.
mfg.asdr IOhannes
PS: while pdb is often mentioned on this list, it seems like there are less than 5 people who (openly) complained about pdb not working since the beginning of this year.
On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 08:28:39 +0200 IOhannes m zmölnig zmoelnig@iem.at wrote:
Phil Stone wrote:
Sometime in the last few months, PDB has stopped working for me. No matter what query I type, I get no results. The [ALL EXTERNALS WITH COMPLETE ENTIRES] link gives a 404. I know this used to work, and I've seen people talking about pdb like it still works, so what gives? Is there some basic browser setting I've munged? I'm using Firefox, on both XP and Tiger.,
oops, this is my fault: the database is actually down. (we had a hardware-failure and re-installed everything from scratch; the database should have been backuped, however it did not go online again)
the reason why i was reluctant to get it up again in the second place (first were pressing things to do), is that i would very much prefer to get the entire database onto puredata.info AND in a different form, where people can submit there "objects" in their homedirectories and they would get automatically added to the list of objects.
most likely we can just use keywords for this (just like with the "pd-art"); we are open to any suggestions how to do it better and even more open to people who are able and willing to implement such features in the existing zope/plone framework.
I've always been a big fan of the PDB, but I guess, such a resourse is only useful if it is current, accurate, and relatively exhaustive. Two options for integrating into the puredata site are either to use archetypes ('object' and 'libary' or something like that), or to build the PDB out of the CVS repository. Perhaps a combination of the two might work. I would be willing to contribute to developing such a resource, as I am currently doing a similar thing for a different project, but I wouldn't be able to do it any time soon.
Jamie
On Apr 27, 2006, at 7:35 PM, Jamie Bullock wrote:
On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 08:28:39 +0200 IOhannes m zmölnig zmoelnig@iem.at wrote:
Phil Stone wrote:
Sometime in the last few months, PDB has stopped working for me. No matter what query I type, I get no results. The [ALL EXTERNALS WITH COMPLETE ENTIRES] link gives a 404. I know this used to work,
and I've seen people talking about pdb like it still works, so what
gives? Is there some basic browser setting I've munged? I'm using Firefox, on both XP and Tiger.,oops, this is my fault: the database is actually down. (we had a hardware-failure and re-installed everything from
scratch; the database should have been backuped, however it did not go online
again)the reason why i was reluctant to get it up again in the second place (first were pressing things to do), is that i would very much
prefer to get the entire database onto puredata.info AND in a different form, where people can submit there "objects" in their homedirectories and they would get automatically added to the list of objects.most likely we can just use keywords for this (just like with the
"pd-art"); we are open to any suggestions how to do it better and even more
open to people who are able and willing to implement such features in the existing zope/plone framework.I've always been a big fan of the PDB, but I guess, such a resourse
is only useful if it is current, accurate, and relatively
exhaustive. Two options for integrating into the puredata site are
either to use archetypes ('object' and 'libary' or something like
that), or to build the PDB out of the CVS repository. Perhaps a
combination of the two might work. I would be willing to contribute
to developing such a resource, as I am currently doing a similar
thing for a different project, but I wouldn't be able to do it any
time soon.
It would be awesome to build PDB from meta data embedded in help
patches. Any help would be appreciated.
.hc
Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with a long stick. -David Zicarelli
Yes,
Its trivial to write the script that extracts the information, the only real challenge is to define tags and change all the help files.
tags could be
Name: (the external name(s)) Description: (what does it do) Author: (the authors name) Type: (external/abstraction)
(more ?)
All tags together with values go in one comment object. Information like last update time is taken from the CVS.
We would need volunteers to fill out the help patches and comunicate with the authors of the externals. If someone of the authors is against this approach the information can still be embedded in the help file as a subpatch which is hidden behind a white canvasA :)
Unresovled problems are how to make translations etc. I don't know, maybe the pddp team has a solution for that.
Günter
On Fri, 28 Apr 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
It would be awesome to build PDB from meta data embedded in help patches. Any help would be appreciated.
.hc
Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with a long stick. -David Zicarelli
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
There has been quite a bit of discussion about meta data in the PDDP
meetings, I'll try to summarize what we have agreed on:
The plan is to make a standard subpatch for meta data [pd META].
This hides the meta data and makes it easier to parse for it. The
terms don't have to be pre-defined, but we should standardize terms.
Like "CATEGORY", "KEYWORDS", "DESCRIPTION", "AUTHOR", etc.
The name of the object should be taken from the help patch, not from
the meta data. Each object should have its own help patch. For
bigger concepts which are linked together, like "math objects", there
would be an "about" page with the related help patches link to, and
vice-versa.
The meta data format is only parsed from the [pd META] subpatch. The
meta type is the first part of the comment, its all caps, and its
terminated by a colon.
KEYWORDS: addition sum CATEGORY: math
This means that new meta data can be declared by just adding it to
the [pd META] subpatch in the correct format. Nothing else would be
needed, i.e. there is no static list of meta types, but its
dynamically generated from the help patches. Standardization of meta
types is important here, otherwise we have chaos. But with CVS,
that's not too hard to coordinate.
.hc
On Apr 28, 2006, at 11:37 AM, geiger wrote:
Yes,
Its trivial to write the script that extracts the information, the only real challenge is to define tags and change all the help files.
tags could be
Name: (the external name(s)) Description: (what does it do) Author: (the authors name) Type: (external/abstraction)
(more ?)
All tags together with values go in one comment object. Information like last update time is taken from the CVS.
We would need volunteers to fill out the help patches and comunicate with the authors of the externals. If someone of the authors is
against this approach the information can still be embedded in the help
file as a subpatch which is hidden behind a white canvasA :)Unresovled problems are how to make translations etc. I don't know, maybe the pddp team has a solution for that.
Günter
On Fri, 28 Apr 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
It would be awesome to build PDB from meta data embedded in help patches. Any help would be appreciated.
.hc
Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with a long stick. -David Zicarelli
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list
"[W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are
deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from
scarcity."
-John Gilmore
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
The name of the object should be taken from the help patch, not from the
the problem with this is, that sometimes the filename does not reflect the object name. (like "mtx_*~") btw, this is the same problem you run into with your "load_every_object.sh" script.
furthermore it does not reflect the possibility of sharing help-patches between several objects (like [+] and [-])
The meta data format is only parsed from the [pd META] subpatch. The meta type is the first part of the comment, its all caps, and its terminated by a colon.
KEYWORDS: addition sum CATEGORY: math
however, if we have an optional(!) field NAME the above problems could be solved to some extent.
important here, otherwise we have chaos. But with CVS, that's not too hard to coordinate.
one important thing i would like to remind you of is that the CVS does not necessarily host all pd-objects. i would very much like a system that is independent of the CVS, but could be fed by it (among other sources, like manual addition)
mfa.sdr. IOhannes
On Apr 28, 2006, at 1:28 PM, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
The name of the object should be taken from the help patch, not
from thethe problem with this is, that sometimes the filename does not reflect the object name. (like "mtx_*~") btw, this is the same problem you run into with your "load_every_object.sh" script.
furthermore it does not reflect the possibility of sharing help- patches between several objects (like [+] and [-])
In PDDP, every object will have its own patch with a simple clear
example for that specific object. All of the shared help patches
that I have seen are not clear, and I think its a bad design. For
the shared concepts, an "about" patch can be made, and linked to/from
each help patch.
The meta data format is only parsed from the [pd META] subpatch. The meta type is the first part of the comment, its all caps, and its terminated by a colon.
KEYWORDS: addition sum CATEGORY: math
however, if we have an optional(!) field NAME the above problems could be solved to some extent.
important here, otherwise we have chaos. But with CVS, that's not
too hard to coordinate.one important thing i would like to remind you of is that the CVS does not necessarily host all pd-objects. i would very much like a system that is independent of the CVS, but could be fed by it (among other sources, like manual addition)
Of course, then we have to rely on communication and documentation...
scary thought.
.hc
"Computer science is no more related to the computer than astronomy
is related to the telescope."
-Edsger
Dykstra
Hi,
ok, that sounds cool. I see everything is defined already. Is there a plan of implementation ?
Günter
On Fri, 28 Apr 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
There has been quite a bit of discussion about meta data in the PDDP meetings, I'll try to summarize what we have agreed on:
The plan is to make a standard subpatch for meta data [pd META]. This hides the meta data and makes it easier to parse for it. The terms don't have to be pre-defined, but we should standardize terms. Like "CATEGORY", "KEYWORDS", "DESCRIPTION", "AUTHOR", etc.
The name of the object should be taken from the help patch, not from the meta data. Each object should have its own help patch. For bigger concepts which are linked together, like "math objects", there would be an "about" page with the related help patches link to, and vice-versa.
The meta data format is only parsed from the [pd META] subpatch. The meta type is the first part of the comment, its all caps, and its terminated by a colon.
KEYWORDS: addition sum CATEGORY: math
This means that new meta data can be declared by just adding it to the [pd META] subpatch in the correct format. Nothing else would be needed, i.e. there is no static list of meta types, but its dynamically generated from the help patches. Standardization of meta types is important here, otherwise we have chaos. But with CVS, that's not too hard to coordinate.
.hc
On Apr 28, 2006, at 11:37 AM, geiger wrote:
Yes,
Its trivial to write the script that extracts the information, the only real challenge is to define tags and change all the help files.
tags could be
Name: (the external name(s)) Description: (what does it do) Author: (the authors name) Type: (external/abstraction)
(more ?)
All tags together with values go in one comment object. Information like last update time is taken from the CVS.
We would need volunteers to fill out the help patches and comunicate with the authors of the externals. If someone of the authors is against this approach the information can still be embedded in the help file as a subpatch which is hidden behind a white canvasA :)
Unresovled problems are how to make translations etc. I don't know, maybe the pddp team has a solution for that.
Günter
On Fri, 28 Apr 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
It would be awesome to build PDB from meta data embedded in help patches. Any help would be appreciated.
.hc
Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with a long stick. -David Zicarelli
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list
"[W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from scarcity." -John Gilmore
Hi Guenter,
I put some ideas on the pddp wiki and a simple start to (tcl) code.
All that is needed is time, or a more efficient programmer than me to do it. I think Hans may have started...
Here are some links: (please comment on them)
https://www.pure-data.info/dev/pddp/SpecificationForHelpPatchSearching https://www.pure-data.info/dev/pddp/SimpleImplimentation
.b.
geiger wrote:
Hi,
ok, that sounds cool. I see everything is defined already. Is there a plan of implementation ?
Günter
On Fri, 28 Apr 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
There has been quite a bit of discussion about meta data in the PDDP meetings, I'll try to summarize what we have agreed on:
The plan is to make a standard subpatch for meta data [pd META]. This hides the meta data and makes it easier to parse for it. The terms don't have to be pre-defined, but we should standardize terms. Like "CATEGORY", "KEYWORDS", "DESCRIPTION", "AUTHOR", etc.
The name of the object should be taken from the help patch, not from the meta data. Each object should have its own help patch. For bigger concepts which are linked together, like "math objects", there would be an "about" page with the related help patches link to, and vice-versa.
The meta data format is only parsed from the [pd META] subpatch. The meta type is the first part of the comment, its all caps, and its terminated by a colon.
KEYWORDS: addition sum CATEGORY: math
This means that new meta data can be declared by just adding it to the [pd META] subpatch in the correct format. Nothing else would be needed, i.e. there is no static list of meta types, but its dynamically generated from the help patches. Standardization of meta types is important here, otherwise we have chaos. But with CVS, that's not too hard to coordinate.
.hc
On Apr 28, 2006, at 11:37 AM, geiger wrote:
Yes,
Its trivial to write the script that extracts the information, the only real challenge is to define tags and change all the help files.
tags could be
Name: (the external name(s)) Description: (what does it do) Author: (the authors name) Type: (external/abstraction)
(more ?)
All tags together with values go in one comment object. Information like last update time is taken from the CVS.
We would need volunteers to fill out the help patches and comunicate with the authors of the externals. If someone of the authors is against this approach the information can still be embedded in the help file as a subpatch which is hidden behind a white canvasA :)
Unresovled problems are how to make translations etc. I don't know, maybe the pddp team has a solution for that.
Günter
On Fri, 28 Apr 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
It would be awesome to build PDB from meta data embedded in help patches. Any help would be appreciated.
.hc
Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with a long stick. -David Zicarelli
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list
"[W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from scarcity." -John Gilmore
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
This is not a complete work or even design. The design has been
discussed quite a bit, so I think its basically sound. But if anyone
is interested in implementing any of this, please feel free. I for
one am not going to have any time to try for a few months. All help
is appreciated!
.hc
On Apr 28, 2006, at 5:52 PM, B. Bogart wrote:
Hi Guenter,
I put some ideas on the pddp wiki and a simple start to (tcl) code.
All that is needed is time, or a more efficient programmer than me
to do it. I think Hans may have started...Here are some links: (please comment on them)
https://www.pure-data.info/dev/pddp/SpecificationForHelpPatchSearching https://www.pure-data.info/dev/pddp/SimpleImplimentation
.b.
geiger wrote:
Hi,
ok, that sounds cool. I see everything is defined already. Is
there a plan of implementation ?Günter
On Fri, 28 Apr 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
There has been quite a bit of discussion about meta data in the PDDP meetings, I'll try to summarize what we have agreed on:
The plan is to make a standard subpatch for meta data [pd META]. This hides the meta data and makes it easier to parse for it. The terms don't have to be pre-defined, but we should standardize terms. Like "CATEGORY", "KEYWORDS", "DESCRIPTION", "AUTHOR", etc.
The name of the object should be taken from the help patch, not from the meta data. Each object should have its own help patch. For bigger concepts which are linked together, like "math objects",
there would be an "about" page with the related help patches link to, and vice-versa.The meta data format is only parsed from the [pd META] subpatch.
The meta type is the first part of the comment, its all caps, and its terminated by a colon.KEYWORDS: addition sum CATEGORY: math
This means that new meta data can be declared by just adding it to the [pd META] subpatch in the correct format. Nothing else would be needed, i.e. there is no static list of meta types, but its dynamically generated from the help patches. Standardization of
meta types is important here, otherwise we have chaos. But with CVS, that's not too hard to coordinate..hc
On Apr 28, 2006, at 11:37 AM, geiger wrote:
Yes,
Its trivial to write the script that extracts the information, the only real challenge is to define tags and change all the help files.
tags could be
Name: (the external name(s)) Description: (what does it do) Author: (the authors name) Type: (external/abstraction)
(more ?)
All tags together with values go in one comment object. Information like last update time is taken from the CVS.
We would need volunteers to fill out the help patches and
comunicate with the authors of the externals. If someone of the authors is against this approach the information can still be embedded in the help file as a subpatch which is hidden behind a white canvasA :)Unresovled problems are how to make translations etc. I don't know, maybe the pddp team has a solution for that.
Günter
On Fri, 28 Apr 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
It would be awesome to build PDB from meta data embedded in help patches. Any help would be appreciated.
.hc
Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with a long stick. -David Zicarelli
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list
"[W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from scarcity." -John Gilmore
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list
News is what people want to keep hidden and everything else is
publicity.
- Bill Moyers
-
B. Bogart -
geiger -
Hans-Christoph Steiner -
IOhannes m zmoelnig -
IOhannes m zmölnig
-
Jamie Bullock -
Phil Stone