Hello everyone,
I tried google and it was no help, and the server for the list archive seems to be down temporarily.
Anyway, I'm giving a free (as in free beer) workshop in Chicago in about 16 hours, on the basics of digital synthesis. I have decided to use Pure Data to give my presentation, and use mostly non-commercial software.
However, I'm still missing the following for demonstrating "proper" subtractive synthesis:
- Good, out of the box "analog-sounding" filters. I'm using [moog~]
right now, but I'm not all that satisfied with the sound compared to the filters in my favorite VST's ... 2. Band-limited square and sawtooth waveforms.
For teaching purposes PD is great, and ideal for my demonstrations. But as it is, I'm having to use VST's within PD in order to demonstrate a "nice sounding" synth. It would be nice to show that PD can do it without using stuff built in Steinberg's format. That would also let the Mac people replicate my work, if they are interested. Note, nobody in the workshop has ever tried Linux, except me, so Linux plugins are not helpful in this case.
I will post my patches after I give the workshop, though they are nothing fancy ... just basic: sequencer - oscillator - vca - filter. Good for demoing though, I'm starting with additive first, then subtractive.
~David
Hi David,
See in the audio help patches: J07.oversampling.pd for bandlimited sawtooth oscillation.
lg,PP
David Powers wrote:
Hello everyone,
I tried google and it was no help, and the server for the list archive seems to be down temporarily.
Anyway, I'm giving a free (as in free beer) workshop in Chicago in about 16 hours, on the basics of digital synthesis. I have decided to use Pure Data to give my presentation, and use mostly non-commercial software.
However, I'm still missing the following for demonstrating "proper" subtractive synthesis:
- Good, out of the box "analog-sounding" filters. I'm using [moog~]
right now, but I'm not all that satisfied with the sound compared to the filters in my favorite VST's ... 2. Band-limited square and sawtooth waveforms.
For teaching purposes PD is great, and ideal for my demonstrations. But as it is, I'm having to use VST's within PD in order to demonstrate a "nice sounding" synth. It would be nice to show that PD can do it without using stuff built in Steinberg's format. That would also let the Mac people replicate my work, if they are interested. Note, nobody in the workshop has ever tried Linux, except me, so Linux plugins are not helpful in this case.
I will post my patches after I give the workshop, though they are nothing fancy ... just basic: sequencer - oscillator - vca - filter. Good for demoing though, I'm starting with additive first, then subtractive.
~David
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
hello david
everything i know about this topic i know from the list. i think the archives can be really helpfull in that specific case.
however, i think the list archive is up again. try this link:
http://www.google.ch/search?hl=de&q=bandlimited+site% 3Alists.puredata.info&btnG=Google-Suche&meta=
cheers
On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 03:05 -0600, David Powers wrote:
Hello everyone,
I tried google and it was no help, and the server for the list archive seems to be down temporarily.
Anyway, I'm giving a free (as in free beer) workshop in Chicago in about 16 hours, on the basics of digital synthesis. I have decided to use Pure Data to give my presentation, and use mostly non-commercial software.
However, I'm still missing the following for demonstrating "proper" subtractive synthesis:
- Good, out of the box "analog-sounding" filters. I'm using [moog~]
right now, but I'm not all that satisfied with the sound compared to the filters in my favorite VST's ... 2. Band-limited square and sawtooth waveforms.
For teaching purposes PD is great, and ideal for my demonstrations. But as it is, I'm having to use VST's within PD in order to demonstrate a "nice sounding" synth. It would be nice to show that PD can do it without using stuff built in Steinberg's format. That would also let the Mac people replicate my work, if they are interested. Note, nobody in the workshop has ever tried Linux, except me, so Linux plugins are not helpful in this case.
I will post my patches after I give the workshop, though they are nothing fancy ... just basic: sequencer - oscillator - vca - filter. Good for demoing though, I'm starting with additive first, then subtractive.
~David
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de
David Powers wrote:
Hello everyone,
I tried google and it was no help, and the server for the list archive seems to be down temporarily.
hmmm, i cannot confirm this here. http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/ works just fine.
can you reach http://puredata.info?
mfg.asdr IOhannes
Okay thanks, I was getting some other link through google that I thought was the list archives (elists.resynthesize something or other) ... I guess I should bookmark stuff and not depend on google. Anyway, so far it's no help, because now the problem is, I have way too many hits for "band-limited", but I still can't find any patches...
~David
On 3/14/07, IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoelnig@iem.at wrote:
David Powers wrote:
Hello everyone,
I tried google and it was no help, and the server for the list archive seems to be down temporarily.
hmmm, i cannot confirm this here. http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/ works just fine.
can you reach http://puredata.info?
mfg.asdr IOhannes
Hallo, David Powers hat gesagt: // David Powers wrote:
Anyway, I'm giving a free (as in free beer) workshop in Chicago in about 16 hours, on the basics of digital synthesis. I have decided to use Pure Data to give my presentation, and use mostly non-commercial software.
Pd is commercial software. ;)
However, I'm still missing the following for demonstrating "proper" subtractive synthesis:
- Good, out of the box "analog-sounding" filters. I'm using [moog~]
right now, but I'm not all that satisfied with the sound compared to the filters in my favorite VST's ... 2. Band-limited square and sawtooth waveforms.
Attached is a bandlimited square, which was bandlimited using the upsample, then filter approach described in The Book.
Another approach would be additive synthesis, as illustrated here: http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2006-05/038681.html (There are two patches in that mail!)
Finally there are various externals, like blosc~ from creb.
For filters I would recommend using the IEM-filters as building blocks.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
David Powers wrote:
- Band-limited square and sawtooth waveforms.
The creb library includes:
blosc~ - some bandlimited oscillators based on minimal phase impulse and step functions. (inspired by Eli Brandt's paper "Hard Sync Without Aliasing".)
Note, nobody in the workshop has ever tried Linux, except me, so Linux plugins are not helpful in this case.
creb should work on windows, I believe - a search for 'pd creb.dll' =>
http://impala.utopia.free.fr/pd/patchs/selection/PROJETS_patches/eskogen_gyr...
Claude
Doesn't work on windows at least...
On 3/14/07, Claude Heiland-Allen claudiusmaximus@goto10.org wrote:
David Powers wrote:
- Band-limited square and sawtooth waveforms.
The creb library includes:
blosc~ - some bandlimited oscillators based on minimal phase impulse and step functions. (inspired by Eli Brandt's paper "Hard Sync Without Aliasing".)
Note, nobody in the workshop has ever tried Linux, except me, so Linux plugins are not helpful in this case.
creb should work on windows, I believe - a search for 'pd creb.dll' =>
http://impala.utopia.free.fr/pd/patchs/selection/PROJETS_patches/eskogen_gyr...
Claude
hello david
i found examples for a bandlimited saw and bandlimited square by g. geiger in the archives. might this is what you are looking for.
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2006-05/038681.html
cheers roman
On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 03:05 -0600, David Powers wrote:
Hello everyone,
I tried google and it was no help, and the server for the list archive seems to be down temporarily.
Anyway, I'm giving a free (as in free beer) workshop in Chicago in about 16 hours, on the basics of digital synthesis. I have decided to use Pure Data to give my presentation, and use mostly non-commercial software.
However, I'm still missing the following for demonstrating "proper" subtractive synthesis:
- Good, out of the box "analog-sounding" filters. I'm using [moog~]
right now, but I'm not all that satisfied with the sound compared to the filters in my favorite VST's ... 2. Band-limited square and sawtooth waveforms.
For teaching purposes PD is great, and ideal for my demonstrations. But as it is, I'm having to use VST's within PD in order to demonstrate a "nice sounding" synth. It would be nice to show that PD can do it without using stuff built in Steinberg's format. That would also let the Mac people replicate my work, if they are interested. Note, nobody in the workshop has ever tried Linux, except me, so Linux plugins are not helpful in this case.
I will post my patches after I give the workshop, though they are nothing fancy ... just basic: sequencer - oscillator - vca - filter. Good for demoing though, I'm starting with additive first, then subtractive.
~David
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
___________________________________________________________ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de
I found those, but are they really band-limited? I'm fairly sure I hear ugly digital artifacts in the saw. The square appears to be broken, unless I made a mistake cutting and pasting those 1500 lines of code into my text editor (kinda hard to tell).
It's 5 30 am here and I've not slept yet :-(
I can't believe there's STILL no readily available external/abstraction for such a common synthesis task, I just want a "nice sounding" example that will compare with the VST's which I will be hosting from within PD; right now "ASynth" sounds about 100x better than anything made in PD itself ...
Oh and I don't see any "J" example PD patches, my PD patches don't go that high.
~David
On 3/14/07, Roman Haefeli reduzierer@yahoo.de wrote:
hello david
i found examples for a bandlimited saw and bandlimited square by g. geiger in the archives. might this is what you are looking for.
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2006-05/038681.html
cheers roman
On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 03:05 -0600, David Powers wrote:
Hello everyone,
I tried google and it was no help, and the server for the list archive seems to be down temporarily.
Anyway, I'm giving a free (as in free beer) workshop in Chicago in about 16 hours, on the basics of digital synthesis. I have decided to use Pure Data to give my presentation, and use mostly non-commercial software.
However, I'm still missing the following for demonstrating "proper" subtractive synthesis:
- Good, out of the box "analog-sounding" filters. I'm using [moog~]
right now, but I'm not all that satisfied with the sound compared to the filters in my favorite VST's ... 2. Band-limited square and sawtooth waveforms.
For teaching purposes PD is great, and ideal for my demonstrations. But as it is, I'm having to use VST's within PD in order to demonstrate a "nice sounding" synth. It would be nice to show that PD can do it without using stuff built in Steinberg's format. That would also let the Mac people replicate my work, if they are interested. Note, nobody in the workshop has ever tried Linux, except me, so Linux plugins are not helpful in this case.
I will post my patches after I give the workshop, though they are nothing fancy ... just basic: sequencer - oscillator - vca - filter. Good for demoing though, I'm starting with additive first, then subtractive.
~David
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de
On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 04:46 -0600, David Powers wrote:
I found those, but are they really band-limited? I'm fairly sure I hear ugly digital artifacts in the saw.
what artifacts? can you elaborate that a bit more?
The square appears to be broken, unless I made a mistake cutting and pasting those 1500 lines of code into my text editor (kinda hard to tell)
possibly yes. it seems to work here.
It's 5 30 am here and I've not slept yet :-(
I can't believe there's STILL no readily available external/abstraction for such a common synthesis task, I just want a "nice sounding" example that will compare with the VST's which I will be hosting from within PD; right now "ASynth" sounds about 100x better than anything made in PD itself ...
hey, man. i am really trying to help you. the examples from the link i posted perfectly work here. i wouldn't have posted, if i didn't test them. just to be sure nothing got broken by copying them into a textfile, i attached them. don't know what you expect exactly. they do nothing less than bandlimiting oscillators, but also nothing more. if you still think, they don't work or they sound bad, it would be interesting, if you could post a wavfile recorded from ASynth, or whatever synth you like, so that we pd-people have a chance to compare. maybe it is somehting else, what makes you think, that they sound better.
Oh and I don't see any "J" example PD patches, my PD patches don't go that high.
what version of pd are you using? i can confirm, that these examples are included in millers pd since at least 0.39. and here http://crca.ucsd.edu/~msp/techniques.htm you can find only the audio examples.
don't take me wrong, but possibly it would be the best to take a bunch of sleep and continue your research with a clean fresh mind and you will see, that it is not that a difficult story as it seems to be yet ;-)
i hope i could help a bit now.
cheers roman
~David
On 3/14/07, Roman Haefeli reduzierer@yahoo.de wrote:
hello david
i found examples for a bandlimited saw and bandlimited square by g. geiger in the archives. might this is what you are looking for.
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2006-05/038681.html
cheers roman
On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 03:05 -0600, David Powers wrote:
Hello everyone,
I tried google and it was no help, and the server for the list archive seems to be down temporarily.
Anyway, I'm giving a free (as in free beer) workshop in Chicago in about 16 hours, on the basics of digital synthesis. I have decided to use Pure Data to give my presentation, and use mostly non-commercial software.
However, I'm still missing the following for demonstrating "proper" subtractive synthesis:
- Good, out of the box "analog-sounding" filters. I'm using [moog~]
right now, but I'm not all that satisfied with the sound compared to the filters in my favorite VST's ... 2. Band-limited square and sawtooth waveforms.
For teaching purposes PD is great, and ideal for my demonstrations. But as it is, I'm having to use VST's within PD in order to demonstrate a "nice sounding" synth. It would be nice to show that PD can do it without using stuff built in Steinberg's format. That would also let the Mac people replicate my work, if they are interested. Note, nobody in the workshop has ever tried Linux, except me, so Linux plugins are not helpful in this case.
I will post my patches after I give the workshop, though they are nothing fancy ... just basic: sequencer - oscillator - vca - filter. Good for demoing though, I'm starting with additive first, then subtractive.
~David
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Der frÌhe Vogel fÀngt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de
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On 3/14/07, Roman Haefeli reduzierer@yahoo.de wrote:
On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 04:46 -0600, David Powers wrote:
I found those, but are they really band-limited? I'm fairly sure I hear ugly digital artifacts in the saw.
what artifacts? can you elaborate that a bit more?
Hi, listen at exactly 474 hz, and tell me if you think something sound funny to you, I guess... (the oscillators in my example are the same ones in the original example. Sometimes there's table not found errors in PD though).
Oh and fyi I've looked in two dif versions of PD on my hard drive, highest example number is "G.09.pitchshift.pd" ... PD I'm running is 0.39-2 I guess... I think I'm out of town, but thanks for showing me Miller's examples. For whatever reason I did not have the "H" "I" and "J" patches at all in any PD on my PC.
Anyway I guess this is "good enough" for demo purposes, here's my subtractive workshop patch attached. Digital artifacts are VERY noticable though. Of course filtering helps a lot ... though I think [moog~] might have problems of its own. I wish I had time to understand what IEM filter would give something like a nice classic analog low pass ...
I will do a/b in pure data soon, so you can see / hear the oscillator and filter differences I mention. I believe my beloved ASynth uses the minBLEP technique, I don't understand it but I wonder if it can be applied in PD by some more math competent person?
~David
On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 12:38 -0600, David Powers wrote:
On 3/14/07, Roman Haefeli reduzierer@yahoo.de wrote:
On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 04:46 -0600, David Powers wrote:
I found those, but are they really band-limited? I'm fairly sure I hear ugly digital artifacts in the saw.
what artifacts? can you elaborate that a bit more?
Hi, listen at exactly 474 hz, and tell me if you think something sound funny to you, I guess...
here 474Hz sound ok, but i still could only test on my built-in card with only 48KHz available. i will test later again on my rme at 44.1kHz.
(the oscillators in my example are the same ones in the original example. Sometimes there's table not found errors in PD though).
yeah, above 16kHz. and also in my patch i noticed a bit of aliasing in these high area. maybe it would be better to switch to an [osc~], cause the waveform in the according table is a sine anyway.
my patch has still one little problem with cpu-optimaziation. i think the best would be to split the whole frequency range in three areas: in the low area a raw square, in the middle area the bandlimited version and it the are, where no harmonics could be played anyway, it could switch to an [osc~]. i'd like to put these three parts in separate subpatches, so that the unnecessary parts could be switched of. the problem is, when the parts are switched off, the are not in phase anymore, when they are switched on, so at least the [tabosc4~], [phasor~] and the [osc~] should always run, only for keeping the phase. could that be optimized in some way? is it possible to retrieve the phase of these objects? of course the [phasor~] could always run, but is a [phasor~] cheaper than an [osc~]?
roman
Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de
On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 12:38 -0600, David Powers wrote:
On 3/14/07, Roman Haefeli reduzierer@yahoo.de wrote:
On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 04:46 -0600, David Powers wrote:
I found those, but are they really band-limited? I'm fairly sure I hear ugly digital artifacts in the saw.
what artifacts? can you elaborate that a bit more?
Hi, listen at exactly 474 hz, and tell me if you think something sound funny to you, I guess...
ok. i am testing with the rme-card at 44100kHz and good earphones now and i hear it too. i did't look too deep into the problem yet, but as i said, this example is not completely working as it should. also did guenter in his post say something like that this example should be considered as a raw sketcht to show how the algorithm works. i tested again my version with the rme and i can't notice any aliasing. so try rather that one.
note: it was quite interesting for me to see, that cheap cards introduce aliasing, even when playing [osc~]'s. i didn't know about that huge difference before.
roman
Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de
On 3/16/07, Roman Haefeli reduzierer@yahoo.de wrote:
On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 12:38 -0600, David Powers wrote:
On 3/14/07, Roman Haefeli reduzierer@yahoo.de wrote:
On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 04:46 -0600, David Powers wrote:
I found those, but are they really band-limited? I'm fairly sure I hear ugly digital artifacts in the saw.
what artifacts? can you elaborate that a bit more?
Hi, listen at exactly 474 hz, and tell me if you think something sound funny to you, I guess...
ok. i am testing with the rme-card at 44100kHz and good earphones now and i hear it too. i did't look too deep into the problem yet, but as i said, this example is not completely working as it should. also did guenter in his post say something like that this example should be considered as a raw sketcht to show how the algorithm works. i tested again my version with the rme and i can't notice any aliasing. so try rather that one.
note: it was quite interesting for me to see, that cheap cards introduce aliasing, even when playing [osc~]'s. i didn't know about that huge difference before.
roman
Aha, that's interesting ... I am indeed on a built in soundcard on my laptop, which is undoubtedly cheap - it's a work laptop from the office, not one built for music, I don't own a laptop of own or a good soundcard...
Anyway, now I am curious to use the ASIO driver and a different sample rate, to see if it makes any difference...
~David
hello again
i improved guenter's bandlimited square a bit. i noticed that it is hardcoded to 48kHz and accidently i was running pd at 48kHz, that's why it sounded quite good here. however, how far i can see it, the part, that selects the appropriate table, is not working as it should. i couldn't completely follow, how it works, but it seems to switch only correct from tab1 to tab2. for other tabs it switches at too high frequencies, which might introduce a bit aliasing. in my version the tables are generated on loadbang, which makes the file much smaller and easier to adapt for other waveforms. the tabselector is now dependent on the sampling rate, so it should sound well at different rates now. in order to provide the full spectrum even in low frequencies, i added a raw square generator. below a certain frequency, the oscillator switches to the raw square version, so that it should sound good at arbitrary low frequencies. the number of tables generated on loadbang can be changed. a bigger value lowers the frequency, at which the oscillator switches to the raw version and vice versa.
i hope you'll have fun with it.
roman
On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 04:46 -0600, David Powers wrote:
I found those, but are they really band-limited? I'm fairly sure I hear ugly digital artifacts in the saw. The square appears to be broken, unless I made a mistake cutting and pasting those 1500 lines of code into my text editor (kinda hard to tell).
It's 5 30 am here and I've not slept yet :-(
I can't believe there's STILL no readily available external/abstraction for such a common synthesis task, I just want a "nice sounding" example that will compare with the VST's which I will be hosting from within PD; right now "ASynth" sounds about 100x better than anything made in PD itself ...
Oh and I don't see any "J" example PD patches, my PD patches don't go that high.
~David
On 3/14/07, Roman Haefeli reduzierer@yahoo.de wrote:
hello david
i found examples for a bandlimited saw and bandlimited square by g. geiger in the archives. might this is what you are looking for.
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2006-05/038681.html
cheers roman
On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 03:05 -0600, David Powers wrote:
Hello everyone,
I tried google and it was no help, and the server for the list archive seems to be down temporarily.
Anyway, I'm giving a free (as in free beer) workshop in Chicago in about 16 hours, on the basics of digital synthesis. I have decided to use Pure Data to give my presentation, and use mostly non-commercial software.
However, I'm still missing the following for demonstrating "proper" subtractive synthesis:
- Good, out of the box "analog-sounding" filters. I'm using [moog~]
right now, but I'm not all that satisfied with the sound compared to the filters in my favorite VST's ... 2. Band-limited square and sawtooth waveforms.
For teaching purposes PD is great, and ideal for my demonstrations. But as it is, I'm having to use VST's within PD in order to demonstrate a "nice sounding" synth. It would be nice to show that PD can do it without using stuff built in Steinberg's format. That would also let the Mac people replicate my work, if they are interested. Note, nobody in the workshop has ever tried Linux, except me, so Linux plugins are not helpful in this case.
I will post my patches after I give the workshop, though they are nothing fancy ... just basic: sequencer - oscillator - vca - filter. Good for demoing though, I'm starting with additive first, then subtractive.
~David
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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Hi Roman, I get the following error from your patch, for many of the tables: error: 1002-square33: number of points (512) not a power of 2 plus three
Along with this error, it seems to stop playing somewhere above 360 Hz...
Thanks for your help, I'm sorry to sound grumpy, it's just that in searching the archives mostly all I found was my old query for a year ago. Plus everyone says to use [blosc~] but I posted in my first post, that [blosc~] is broken, and I believe that it's known, ie here is says: http://blog.soundsorange.net/index.php/archives/2006/09/28/exploring-pd-exte... "exploring pd extended 27/9/2006 CPU load rating blosc~ - intriguing band limited oscillators, but patch is self referential and not working"
Again, a reminder that this isn't really for me, but rather, it's the list members chance to sell other people on PD being useful, or not, to the outside world. [vst~] is working great so I can demonstrate subtractive synthesis with VST's within pure data, but that's suggesting to people that PD isn't really good for traditional synthesis... So if you think PD is good for synthesis, let me know about it!!!
***Note: I personally don't use PD with Gem for VJing, and to make weird generative MIDI sequences, mostly... I never really considered synthesis a strong point for PD, for reasons that should now be obvious.
~David
On 3/14/07, Roman Haefeli reduzierer@yahoo.de wrote:
hello again
i improved guenter's bandlimited square a bit. i noticed that it is hardcoded to 48kHz and accidently i was running pd at 48kHz, that's why it sounded quite good here. however, how far i can see it, the part, that selects the appropriate table, is not working as it should. i couldn't completely follow, how it works, but it seems to switch only correct from tab1 to tab2. for other tabs it switches at too high frequencies, which might introduce a bit aliasing. in my version the tables are generated on loadbang, which makes the file much smaller and easier to adapt for other waveforms. the tabselector is now dependent on the sampling rate, so it should sound well at different rates now. in order to provide the full spectrum even in low frequencies, i added a raw square generator. below a certain frequency, the oscillator switches to the raw square version, so that it should sound good at arbitrary low frequencies. the number of tables generated on loadbang can be changed. a bigger value lowers the frequency, at which the oscillator switches to the raw version and vice versa.
i hope you'll have fun with it.
roman
On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 04:46 -0600, David Powers wrote:
I found those, but are they really band-limited? I'm fairly sure I hear ugly digital artifacts in the saw. The square appears to be broken, unless I made a mistake cutting and pasting those 1500 lines of code into my text editor (kinda hard to tell).
It's 5 30 am here and I've not slept yet :-(
I can't believe there's STILL no readily available external/abstraction for such a common synthesis task, I just want a "nice sounding" example that will compare with the VST's which I will be hosting from within PD; right now "ASynth" sounds about 100x better than anything made in PD itself ...
Oh and I don't see any "J" example PD patches, my PD patches don't go that high.
~David
On 3/14/07, Roman Haefeli reduzierer@yahoo.de wrote:
hello david
i found examples for a bandlimited saw and bandlimited square by g. geiger in the archives. might this is what you are looking for.
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2006-05/038681.html
cheers roman
On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 03:05 -0600, David Powers wrote:
Hello everyone,
I tried google and it was no help, and the server for the list archive seems to be down temporarily.
Anyway, I'm giving a free (as in free beer) workshop in Chicago in about 16 hours, on the basics of digital synthesis. I have decided to use Pure Data to give my presentation, and use mostly non-commercial software.
However, I'm still missing the following for demonstrating "proper" subtractive synthesis:
- Good, out of the box "analog-sounding" filters. I'm using [moog~]
right now, but I'm not all that satisfied with the sound compared to the filters in my favorite VST's ... 2. Band-limited square and sawtooth waveforms.
For teaching purposes PD is great, and ideal for my demonstrations. But as it is, I'm having to use VST's within PD in order to demonstrate a "nice sounding" synth. It would be nice to show that PD can do it without using stuff built in Steinberg's format. That would also let the Mac people replicate my work, if they are interested. Note, nobody in the workshop has ever tried Linux, except me, so Linux plugins are not helpful in this case.
I will post my patches after I give the workshop, though they are nothing fancy ... just basic: sequencer - oscillator - vca - filter. Good for demoing though, I'm starting with additive first, then subtractive.
~David
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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Did anyone try sqosc~ yet? I'm interested to get feedback on that one.
http://pure-data.cvs.sourceforge.net/pure-data/externals/mrpeach/sqosc~/
Martin
David Powers wrote:
Hi Roman, I get the following error from your patch, for many of the tables: error: 1002-square33: number of points (512) not a power of 2 plus three
Along with this error, it seems to stop playing somewhere above 360 Hz...
Thanks for your help, I'm sorry to sound grumpy, it's just that in searching the archives mostly all I found was my old query for a year ago. Plus everyone says to use [blosc~] but I posted in my first post, that [blosc~] is broken, and I believe that it's known, ie here is says: http://blog.soundsorange.net/index.php/archives/2006/09/28/exploring-pd-exte... "exploring pd extended 27/9/2006 CPU load rating blosc~ - intriguing band limited oscillators, but patch is self referential and not working"
Again, a reminder that this isn't really for me, but rather, it's the list members chance to sell other people on PD being useful, or not, to the outside world. [vst~] is working great so I can demonstrate subtractive synthesis with VST's within pure data, but that's suggesting to people that PD isn't really good for traditional synthesis... So if you think PD is good for synthesis, let me know about it!!!
***Note: I personally don't use PD with Gem for VJing, and to make weird generative MIDI sequences, mostly... I never really considered synthesis a strong point for PD, for reasons that should now be obvious.
~David
On 3/14/07, Roman Haefeli reduzierer@yahoo.de wrote:
hello again
i improved guenter's bandlimited square a bit. i noticed that it is hardcoded to 48kHz and accidently i was running pd at 48kHz, that's why it sounded quite good here. however, how far i can see it, the part, that selects the appropriate table, is not working as it should. i couldn't completely follow, how it works, but it seems to switch only correct from tab1 to tab2. for other tabs it switches at too high frequencies, which might introduce a bit aliasing. in my version the tables are generated on loadbang, which makes the file much smaller and easier to adapt for other waveforms. the tabselector is now dependent on the sampling rate, so it should sound well at different rates now. in order to provide the full spectrum even in low frequencies, i added a raw square generator. below a certain frequency, the oscillator switches to the raw square version, so that it should sound good at arbitrary low frequencies. the number of tables generated on loadbang can be changed. a bigger value lowers the frequency, at which the oscillator switches to the raw version and vice versa.
i hope you'll have fun with it.
roman
On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 04:46 -0600, David Powers wrote:
I found those, but are they really band-limited? I'm fairly sure I hear ugly digital artifacts in the saw. The square appears to be broken, unless I made a mistake cutting and pasting those 1500 lines of code into my text editor (kinda hard to tell).
It's 5 30 am here and I've not slept yet :-(
I can't believe there's STILL no readily available external/abstraction for such a common synthesis task, I just want a "nice sounding" example that will compare with the VST's which I will be hosting from within PD; right now "ASynth" sounds about 100x better than anything made in PD itself ...
Oh and I don't see any "J" example PD patches, my PD patches don't go that high.
~David
On 3/14/07, Roman Haefeli reduzierer@yahoo.de wrote:
hello david
i found examples for a bandlimited saw and bandlimited square by g. geiger in the archives. might this is what you are looking for.
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2006-05/038681.html
cheers roman
On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 03:05 -0600, David Powers wrote:
Hello everyone,
I tried google and it was no help, and the server for the list archive seems to be down temporarily.
Anyway, I'm giving a free (as in free beer) workshop in Chicago in about 16 hours, on the basics of digital synthesis. I have decided to use Pure Data to give my presentation, and use mostly non-commercial software.
However, I'm still missing the following for demonstrating "proper" subtractive synthesis:
- Good, out of the box "analog-sounding" filters. I'm using [moog~]
right now, but I'm not all that satisfied with the sound compared to the filters in my favorite VST's ... 2. Band-limited square and sawtooth waveforms.
For teaching purposes PD is great, and ideal for my demonstrations. But as it is, I'm having to use VST's within PD in order to demonstrate a "nice sounding" synth. It would be nice to show that PD can do it without using stuff built in Steinberg's format. That would also let the Mac people replicate my work, if they are interested. Note, nobody in the workshop has ever tried Linux, except me, so Linux plugins are not helpful in this case.
I will post my patches after I give the workshop, though they are nothing fancy ... just basic: sequencer - oscillator - vca - filter. Good for demoing though, I'm starting with additive first, then subtractive.
~David
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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Workshop went well. I used VST's though, except for additive and wavetable ...
But ... how hard is it to compile for winxp? I will try tomorrow if it's possible... I've got visual C++, and cygwin...
~D
On 3/14/07, Martin Peach martin.peach@sympatico.ca wrote:
Did anyone try sqosc~ yet? I'm interested to get feedback on that one.
http://pure-data.cvs.sourceforge.net/pure-data/externals/mrpeach/sqosc~/
Martin
David Powers wrote:
Hi Roman, I get the following error from your patch, for many of the tables: error: 1002-square33: number of points (512) not a power of 2 plus three
Along with this error, it seems to stop playing somewhere above 360 Hz...
Thanks for your help, I'm sorry to sound grumpy, it's just that in searching the archives mostly all I found was my old query for a year ago. Plus everyone says to use [blosc~] but I posted in my first post, that [blosc~] is broken, and I believe that it's known, ie here is says: http://blog.soundsorange.net/index.php/archives/2006/09/28/exploring-pd-exte... "exploring pd extended 27/9/2006 CPU load rating blosc~ - intriguing band limited oscillators, but patch is self referential and not working"
Again, a reminder that this isn't really for me, but rather, it's the list members chance to sell other people on PD being useful, or not, to the outside world. [vst~] is working great so I can demonstrate subtractive synthesis with VST's within pure data, but that's suggesting to people that PD isn't really good for traditional synthesis... So if you think PD is good for synthesis, let me know about it!!!
***Note: I personally don't use PD with Gem for VJing, and to make weird generative MIDI sequences, mostly... I never really considered synthesis a strong point for PD, for reasons that should now be obvious.
~David
On 3/14/07, Roman Haefeli reduzierer@yahoo.de wrote:
hello again
i improved guenter's bandlimited square a bit. i noticed that it is hardcoded to 48kHz and accidently i was running pd at 48kHz, that's why it sounded quite good here. however, how far i can see it, the part, that selects the appropriate table, is not working as it should. i couldn't completely follow, how it works, but it seems to switch only correct from tab1 to tab2. for other tabs it switches at too high frequencies, which might introduce a bit aliasing. in my version the tables are generated on loadbang, which makes the file much smaller and easier to adapt for other waveforms. the tabselector is now dependent on the sampling rate, so it should sound well at different rates now. in order to provide the full spectrum even in low frequencies, i added a raw square generator. below a certain frequency, the oscillator switches to the raw square version, so that it should sound good at arbitrary low frequencies. the number of tables generated on loadbang can be changed. a bigger value lowers the frequency, at which the oscillator switches to the raw version and vice versa.
i hope you'll have fun with it.
roman
On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 04:46 -0600, David Powers wrote:
I found those, but are they really band-limited? I'm fairly sure I hear ugly digital artifacts in the saw. The square appears to be broken, unless I made a mistake cutting and pasting those 1500 lines of code into my text editor (kinda hard to tell).
It's 5 30 am here and I've not slept yet :-(
I can't believe there's STILL no readily available external/abstraction for such a common synthesis task, I just want a "nice sounding" example that will compare with the VST's which I will be hosting from within PD; right now "ASynth" sounds about 100x better than anything made in PD itself ...
Oh and I don't see any "J" example PD patches, my PD patches don't go that high.
~David
On 3/14/07, Roman Haefeli reduzierer@yahoo.de wrote:
hello david
i found examples for a bandlimited saw and bandlimited square by g. geiger in the archives. might this is what you are looking for.
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2006-05/038681.html
cheers roman
On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 03:05 -0600, David Powers wrote:
Hello everyone,
I tried google and it was no help, and the server for the list archive seems to be down temporarily.
Anyway, I'm giving a free (as in free beer) workshop in Chicago in about 16 hours, on the basics of digital synthesis. I have decided to use Pure Data to give my presentation, and use mostly non-commercial software.
However, I'm still missing the following for demonstrating "proper" subtractive synthesis:
- Good, out of the box "analog-sounding" filters. I'm using [moog~]
right now, but I'm not all that satisfied with the sound compared to the filters in my favorite VST's ... 2. Band-limited square and sawtooth waveforms.
For teaching purposes PD is great, and ideal for my demonstrations. But as it is, I'm having to use VST's within PD in order to demonstrate a "nice sounding" synth. It would be nice to show that PD can do it without using stuff built in Steinberg's format. That would also let the Mac people replicate my work, if they are interested. Note, nobody in the workshop has ever tried Linux, except me, so Linux plugins are not helpful in this case.
I will post my patches after I give the workshop, though they are nothing fancy ... just basic: sequencer - oscillator - vca - filter. Good for demoing though, I'm starting with additive first, then subtractive.
~David
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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I use Visual C++ Express Edition because it's free...Cygwin won't work, MinGW does. I'm still not sure if MinGW and MS compiled binaries are compatible (as in does a VCC dll work with a MinGW pd? VCC needs a pd.lib at link time but AFAIK MinGW can use pd.exe at runtime). I usually compile externals against Miller's latest version of pd from his site. For Visual C++ I make an empty project to build a dll, for the compiler include the path to pd/src and define MSW. For the linker include the path to pd/bin and add pd.lib as a dependency. In the linker command line add "/export:sqosc~_setup". Then take the dll and put it in pd/extra. The help file goes in pd/doc/5.reference. That seems to be all that's necessary.
Martin
David Powers wrote:
Workshop went well. I used VST's though, except for additive and wavetable ...
But ... how hard is it to compile for winxp? I will try tomorrow if it's possible... I've got visual C++, and cygwin...
~D
On 3/14/07, Martin Peach martin.peach@sympatico.ca wrote:
Did anyone try sqosc~ yet? I'm interested to get feedback on that one.
http://pure-data.cvs.sourceforge.net/pure-data/externals/mrpeach/sqosc~/
Martin
David Powers wrote:
Hi Roman, I get the following error from your patch, for many of the tables: error: 1002-square33: number of points (512) not a power of 2 plus three
Along with this error, it seems to stop playing somewhere above 360 Hz...
Thanks for your help, I'm sorry to sound grumpy, it's just that in searching the archives mostly all I found was my old query for a year ago. Plus everyone says to use [blosc~] but I posted in my first post, that [blosc~] is broken, and I believe that it's known, ie here is says: http://blog.soundsorange.net/index.php/archives/2006/09/28/exploring-pd-exte... "exploring pd extended 27/9/2006 CPU load rating blosc~ - intriguing band limited oscillators, but patch is self referential and not working"
Again, a reminder that this isn't really for me, but rather, it's the list members chance to sell other people on PD being useful, or not, to the outside world. [vst~] is working great so I can demonstrate subtractive synthesis with VST's within pure data, but that's suggesting to people that PD isn't really good for traditional synthesis... So if you think PD is good for synthesis, let me know about it!!!
***Note: I personally don't use PD with Gem for VJing, and to make weird generative MIDI sequences, mostly... I never really considered synthesis a strong point for PD, for reasons that should now be obvious.
~David
On 3/14/07, Roman Haefeli reduzierer@yahoo.de wrote:
hello again
i improved guenter's bandlimited square a bit. i noticed that it is hardcoded to 48kHz and accidently i was running pd at 48kHz, that's why it sounded quite good here. however, how far i can see it, the part, that selects the appropriate table, is not working as it should. i couldn't completely follow, how it works, but it seems to switch only correct from tab1 to tab2. for other tabs it switches at too high frequencies, which might introduce a bit aliasing. in my version the tables are generated on loadbang, which makes the file much smaller and easier to adapt for other waveforms. the tabselector is now dependent on the sampling rate, so it should sound well at different rates now. in order to provide the full spectrum even in low frequencies, i added a raw square generator. below a certain frequency, the oscillator switches to the raw square version, so that it should sound good at arbitrary low frequencies. the number of tables generated on loadbang can be changed. a bigger value lowers the frequency, at which the oscillator switches to the raw version and vice versa.
i hope you'll have fun with it.
roman
On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 04:46 -0600, David Powers wrote:
I found those, but are they really band-limited? I'm fairly sure I hear ugly digital artifacts in the saw. The square appears to be broken, unless I made a mistake cutting and pasting those 1500 lines of code into my text editor (kinda hard to tell).
It's 5 30 am here and I've not slept yet :-(
I can't believe there's STILL no readily available external/abstraction for such a common synthesis task, I just want a "nice sounding" example that will compare with the VST's which I will be hosting from within PD; right now "ASynth" sounds about 100x better than anything made in PD itself ...
Oh and I don't see any "J" example PD patches, my PD patches don't go that high.
~David
On 3/14/07, Roman Haefeli reduzierer@yahoo.de wrote:
hello david
i found examples for a bandlimited saw and bandlimited square by g. geiger in the archives. might this is what you are looking for.
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2006-05/038681.html
cheers roman
On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 03:05 -0600, David Powers wrote:
> Hello everyone, > > I tried google and it was no help, and the server for the list archive > seems to be down temporarily. > > Anyway, I'm giving a free (as in free beer) workshop in Chicago in > about 16 hours, on the basics of digital synthesis. I have decided to > use Pure Data to give my presentation, and use mostly non-commercial > software. > > However, I'm still missing the following for demonstrating "proper" > subtractive synthesis: > 1. Good, out of the box "analog-sounding" filters. I'm using [moog~] > right now, but I'm not all that satisfied with the sound compared to > the filters in my favorite VST's ... > 2. Band-limited square and sawtooth waveforms. > > For teaching purposes PD is great, and ideal for my demonstrations. > But as it is, I'm having to use VST's within PD in order to > demonstrate a "nice sounding" synth. It would be nice to show that PD > can do it without using stuff built in Steinberg's format. That would > also let the Mac people replicate my work, if they are interested. > Note, nobody in the workshop has ever tried Linux, except me, so Linux > plugins are not helpful in this case. > > I will post my patches after I give the workshop, though they are > nothing fancy ... just basic: > sequencer - oscillator - vca - filter. Good for demoing though, I'm > starting with additive first, then subtractive. > > ~David > > _______________________________________________ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > >
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i'd really like to check it out, but unfortunately i don't know how to compile it on linux. can you help me?
roman
On Thu, 2007-03-15 at 00:02 -0400, Martin Peach wrote:
Did anyone try sqosc~ yet? I'm interested to get feedback on that one.
http://pure-data.cvs.sourceforge.net/pure-data/externals/mrpeach/sqosc~/
Martin
David Powers wrote:
Hi Roman, I get the following error from your patch, for many of the tables: error: 1002-square33: number of points (512) not a power of 2 plus three
Along with this error, it seems to stop playing somewhere above 360 Hz...
Thanks for your help, I'm sorry to sound grumpy, it's just that in searching the archives mostly all I found was my old query for a year ago. Plus everyone says to use [blosc~] but I posted in my first post, that [blosc~] is broken, and I believe that it's known, ie here is says: http://blog.soundsorange.net/index.php/archives/2006/09/28/exploring-pd-exte... "exploring pd extended 27/9/2006 CPU load rating blosc~ - intriguing band limited oscillators, but patch is self referential and not working"
Again, a reminder that this isn't really for me, but rather, it's the list members chance to sell other people on PD being useful, or not, to the outside world. [vst~] is working great so I can demonstrate subtractive synthesis with VST's within pure data, but that's suggesting to people that PD isn't really good for traditional synthesis... So if you think PD is good for synthesis, let me know about it!!!
***Note: I personally don't use PD with Gem for VJing, and to make weird generative MIDI sequences, mostly... I never really considered synthesis a strong point for PD, for reasons that should now be obvious.
~David
On 3/14/07, Roman Haefeli reduzierer@yahoo.de wrote:
hello again
i improved guenter's bandlimited square a bit. i noticed that it is hardcoded to 48kHz and accidently i was running pd at 48kHz, that's why it sounded quite good here. however, how far i can see it, the part, that selects the appropriate table, is not working as it should. i couldn't completely follow, how it works, but it seems to switch only correct from tab1 to tab2. for other tabs it switches at too high frequencies, which might introduce a bit aliasing. in my version the tables are generated on loadbang, which makes the file much smaller and easier to adapt for other waveforms. the tabselector is now dependent on the sampling rate, so it should sound well at different rates now. in order to provide the full spectrum even in low frequencies, i added a raw square generator. below a certain frequency, the oscillator switches to the raw square version, so that it should sound good at arbitrary low frequencies. the number of tables generated on loadbang can be changed. a bigger value lowers the frequency, at which the oscillator switches to the raw version and vice versa.
i hope you'll have fun with it.
roman
On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 04:46 -0600, David Powers wrote:
I found those, but are they really band-limited? I'm fairly sure I hear ugly digital artifacts in the saw. The square appears to be broken, unless I made a mistake cutting and pasting those 1500 lines of code into my text editor (kinda hard to tell).
It's 5 30 am here and I've not slept yet :-(
I can't believe there's STILL no readily available external/abstraction for such a common synthesis task, I just want a "nice sounding" example that will compare with the VST's which I will be hosting from within PD; right now "ASynth" sounds about 100x better than anything made in PD itself ...
Oh and I don't see any "J" example PD patches, my PD patches don't go that high.
~David
On 3/14/07, Roman Haefeli reduzierer@yahoo.de wrote:
hello david
i found examples for a bandlimited saw and bandlimited square by g. geiger in the archives. might this is what you are looking for.
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2006-05/038681.html
cheers roman
On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 03:05 -0600, David Powers wrote:
Hello everyone,
I tried google and it was no help, and the server for the list archive seems to be down temporarily.
Anyway, I'm giving a free (as in free beer) workshop in Chicago in about 16 hours, on the basics of digital synthesis. I have decided to use Pure Data to give my presentation, and use mostly non-commercial software.
However, I'm still missing the following for demonstrating "proper" subtractive synthesis:
- Good, out of the box "analog-sounding" filters. I'm using [moog~]
right now, but I'm not all that satisfied with the sound compared to the filters in my favorite VST's ... 2. Band-limited square and sawtooth waveforms.
For teaching purposes PD is great, and ideal for my demonstrations. But as it is, I'm having to use VST's within PD in order to demonstrate a "nice sounding" synth. It would be nice to show that PD can do it without using stuff built in Steinberg's format. That would also let the Mac people replicate my work, if they are interested. Note, nobody in the workshop has ever tried Linux, except me, so Linux plugins are not helpful in this case.
I will post my patches after I give the workshop, though they are nothing fancy ... just basic: sequencer - oscillator - vca - filter. Good for demoing though, I'm starting with additive first, then subtractive.
~David
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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I use this little script:
#! /bin/bash echo "Hello" gcc -O2 -DPD -export_dynamic -shared -o sqosc~.pd_linux -I/usr/local/include/ sqosc~.c -L /usr/local/lib echo "done"
(Of course you could just copy/paste the line beginning with "gcc" into a terminal window). If pd is installed on your system it should work for you too. After running it in the same directory as sqosc~.c you will have sqosc~.pd_linux. As root, copy sqosc~.pd_linux to /usr/local/lib/pd/extra if you want to install it.
Martin
Roman Haefeli wrote:
i'd really like to check it out, but unfortunately i don't know how to compile it on linux. can you help me?
roman
On Thu, 2007-03-15 at 00:02 -0400, Martin Peach wrote:
Did anyone try sqosc~ yet? I'm interested to get feedback on that one.
http://pure-data.cvs.sourceforge.net/pure-data/externals/mrpeach/sqosc~/
Martin
David Powers wrote:
Hi Roman, I get the following error from your patch, for many of the tables: error: 1002-square33: number of points (512) not a power of 2 plus three
Along with this error, it seems to stop playing somewhere above 360 Hz...
Thanks for your help, I'm sorry to sound grumpy, it's just that in searching the archives mostly all I found was my old query for a year ago. Plus everyone says to use [blosc~] but I posted in my first post, that [blosc~] is broken, and I believe that it's known, ie here is says: http://blog.soundsorange.net/index.php/archives/2006/09/28/exploring-pd-exte... "exploring pd extended 27/9/2006 CPU load rating blosc~ - intriguing band limited oscillators, but patch is self referential and not working"
Again, a reminder that this isn't really for me, but rather, it's the list members chance to sell other people on PD being useful, or not, to the outside world. [vst~] is working great so I can demonstrate subtractive synthesis with VST's within pure data, but that's suggesting to people that PD isn't really good for traditional synthesis... So if you think PD is good for synthesis, let me know about it!!!
***Note: I personally don't use PD with Gem for VJing, and to make weird generative MIDI sequences, mostly... I never really considered synthesis a strong point for PD, for reasons that should now be obvious.
~David
On 3/14/07, Roman Haefeli reduzierer@yahoo.de wrote:
hello again
i improved guenter's bandlimited square a bit. i noticed that it is hardcoded to 48kHz and accidently i was running pd at 48kHz, that's why it sounded quite good here. however, how far i can see it, the part, that selects the appropriate table, is not working as it should. i couldn't completely follow, how it works, but it seems to switch only correct from tab1 to tab2. for other tabs it switches at too high frequencies, which might introduce a bit aliasing. in my version the tables are generated on loadbang, which makes the file much smaller and easier to adapt for other waveforms. the tabselector is now dependent on the sampling rate, so it should sound well at different rates now. in order to provide the full spectrum even in low frequencies, i added a raw square generator. below a certain frequency, the oscillator switches to the raw square version, so that it should sound good at arbitrary low frequencies. the number of tables generated on loadbang can be changed. a bigger value lowers the frequency, at which the oscillator switches to the raw version and vice versa.
i hope you'll have fun with it.
roman
On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 04:46 -0600, David Powers wrote:
I found those, but are they really band-limited? I'm fairly sure I hear ugly digital artifacts in the saw. The square appears to be broken, unless I made a mistake cutting and pasting those 1500 lines of code into my text editor (kinda hard to tell).
It's 5 30 am here and I've not slept yet :-(
I can't believe there's STILL no readily available external/abstraction for such a common synthesis task, I just want a "nice sounding" example that will compare with the VST's which I will be hosting from within PD; right now "ASynth" sounds about 100x better than anything made in PD itself ...
Oh and I don't see any "J" example PD patches, my PD patches don't go that high.
~David
On 3/14/07, Roman Haefeli reduzierer@yahoo.de wrote:
hello david
i found examples for a bandlimited saw and bandlimited square by g. geiger in the archives. might this is what you are looking for.
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2006-05/038681.html
cheers roman
On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 03:05 -0600, David Powers wrote:
> Hello everyone, > > I tried google and it was no help, and the server for the list archive > seems to be down temporarily. > > Anyway, I'm giving a free (as in free beer) workshop in Chicago in > about 16 hours, on the basics of digital synthesis. I have decided to > use Pure Data to give my presentation, and use mostly non-commercial > software. > > However, I'm still missing the following for demonstrating "proper" > subtractive synthesis: > 1. Good, out of the box "analog-sounding" filters. I'm using [moog~] > right now, but I'm not all that satisfied with the sound compared to > the filters in my favorite VST's ... > 2. Band-limited square and sawtooth waveforms. > > For teaching purposes PD is great, and ideal for my demonstrations. > But as it is, I'm having to use VST's within PD in order to > demonstrate a "nice sounding" synth. It would be nice to show that PD > can do it without using stuff built in Steinberg's format. That would > also let the Mac people replicate my work, if they are interested. > Note, nobody in the workshop has ever tried Linux, except me, so Linux > plugins are not helpful in this case. > > I will post my patches after I give the workshop, though they are > nothing fancy ... just basic: > sequencer - oscillator - vca - filter. Good for demoing though, I'm > starting with additive first, then subtractive. > > ~David > > _______________________________________________ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >
>
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hi martin
finally i compiled sqosc~ (it worked with the line you posted) and i tested it. unfortunately i could only test with my cheap built-in soundcard. but the external works here. the ability to change the pulse width is very cool.
roman
On Thu, 2007-03-15 at 22:12 -0400, Martin Peach wrote:
I use this little script:
#! /bin/bash echo "Hello" gcc -O2 -DPD -export_dynamic -shared -o sqosc~.pd_linux -I/usr/local/include/ sqosc~.c -L /usr/local/lib echo "done"
(Of course you could just copy/paste the line beginning with "gcc" into a terminal window). If pd is installed on your system it should work for you too. After running it in the same directory as sqosc~.c you will have sqosc~.pd_linux. As root, copy sqosc~.pd_linux to /usr/local/lib/pd/extra if you want to install it.
Martin
Roman Haefeli wrote:
i'd really like to check it out, but unfortunately i don't know how to compile it on linux. can you help me?
roman
On Thu, 2007-03-15 at 00:02 -0400, Martin Peach wrote:
Did anyone try sqosc~ yet? I'm interested to get feedback on that one.
http://pure-data.cvs.sourceforge.net/pure-data/externals/mrpeach/sqosc~/
Martin
David Powers wrote:
Hi Roman, I get the following error from your patch, for many of the tables: error: 1002-square33: number of points (512) not a power of 2 plus three
Along with this error, it seems to stop playing somewhere above 360 Hz...
Thanks for your help, I'm sorry to sound grumpy, it's just that in searching the archives mostly all I found was my old query for a year ago. Plus everyone says to use [blosc~] but I posted in my first post, that [blosc~] is broken, and I believe that it's known, ie here is says: http://blog.soundsorange.net/index.php/archives/2006/09/28/exploring-pd-exte... "exploring pd extended 27/9/2006 CPU load rating blosc~ - intriguing band limited oscillators, but patch is self referential and not working"
Again, a reminder that this isn't really for me, but rather, it's the list members chance to sell other people on PD being useful, or not, to the outside world. [vst~] is working great so I can demonstrate subtractive synthesis with VST's within pure data, but that's suggesting to people that PD isn't really good for traditional synthesis... So if you think PD is good for synthesis, let me know about it!!!
***Note: I personally don't use PD with Gem for VJing, and to make weird generative MIDI sequences, mostly... I never really considered synthesis a strong point for PD, for reasons that should now be obvious.
~David
On 3/14/07, Roman Haefeli reduzierer@yahoo.de wrote:
hello again
i improved guenter's bandlimited square a bit. i noticed that it is hardcoded to 48kHz and accidently i was running pd at 48kHz, that's why it sounded quite good here. however, how far i can see it, the part, that selects the appropriate table, is not working as it should. i couldn't completely follow, how it works, but it seems to switch only correct from tab1 to tab2. for other tabs it switches at too high frequencies, which might introduce a bit aliasing. in my version the tables are generated on loadbang, which makes the file much smaller and easier to adapt for other waveforms. the tabselector is now dependent on the sampling rate, so it should sound well at different rates now. in order to provide the full spectrum even in low frequencies, i added a raw square generator. below a certain frequency, the oscillator switches to the raw square version, so that it should sound good at arbitrary low frequencies. the number of tables generated on loadbang can be changed. a bigger value lowers the frequency, at which the oscillator switches to the raw version and vice versa.
i hope you'll have fun with it.
roman
On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 04:46 -0600, David Powers wrote:
I found those, but are they really band-limited? I'm fairly sure I hear ugly digital artifacts in the saw. The square appears to be broken, unless I made a mistake cutting and pasting those 1500 lines of code into my text editor (kinda hard to tell).
It's 5 30 am here and I've not slept yet :-(
I can't believe there's STILL no readily available external/abstraction for such a common synthesis task, I just want a "nice sounding" example that will compare with the VST's which I will be hosting from within PD; right now "ASynth" sounds about 100x better than anything made in PD itself ...
Oh and I don't see any "J" example PD patches, my PD patches don't go that high.
~David
On 3/14/07, Roman Haefeli reduzierer@yahoo.de wrote:
> hello david > > i found examples for a bandlimited saw and bandlimited square by g. > geiger in the archives. might this is what you are looking for. > > http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2006-05/038681.html > > cheers > roman > > On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 03:05 -0600, David Powers wrote: >
>
>> Hello everyone, >> >> I tried google and it was no help, and the server for the list archive >> seems to be down temporarily. >> >> Anyway, I'm giving a free (as in free beer) workshop in Chicago in >> about 16 hours, on the basics of digital synthesis. I have decided to >> use Pure Data to give my presentation, and use mostly non-commercial >> software. >> >> However, I'm still missing the following for demonstrating "proper" >> subtractive synthesis: >> 1. Good, out of the box "analog-sounding" filters. I'm using [moog~] >> right now, but I'm not all that satisfied with the sound compared to >> the filters in my favorite VST's ... >> 2. Band-limited square and sawtooth waveforms. >> >> For teaching purposes PD is great, and ideal for my demonstrations. >> But as it is, I'm having to use VST's within PD in order to >> demonstrate a "nice sounding" synth. It would be nice to show that PD >> can do it without using stuff built in Steinberg's format. That would >> also let the Mac people replicate my work, if they are interested. >> Note, nobody in the workshop has ever tried Linux, except me, so Linux >> plugins are not helpful in this case. >> >> I will post my patches after I give the workshop, though they are >> nothing fancy ... just basic: >> sequencer - oscillator - vca - filter. Good for demoing though, I'm >> starting with additive first, then subtractive. >> >> ~David >> >> _______________________________________________ >> PD-list@iem.at mailing list >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>
>>
> > > ___________________________________________________________ > Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de > > >
>
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Hallo, David Powers hat gesagt: // David Powers wrote:
Thanks for your help, I'm sorry to sound grumpy, it's just that in searching the archives mostly all I found was my old query for a year ago. Plus everyone says to use [blosc~] but I posted in my first post, that [blosc~] is broken, and I believe that it's known, ie here is says: http://blog.soundsorange.net/index.php/archives/2006/09/28/exploring-pd-exte... "exploring pd extended 27/9/2006 CPU load rating blosc~ - intriguing band limited oscillators, but patch is self referential and not working"
The blosc~ we're referring to is not a patch, it is an external. I suppose by self-referential you mean, that the help-file for blosc~ has the same name as the blosc~-external. That is generally no problem and many older externals had their help files named like the object, because the help file is located in a different directory than the external. If you have installed the blosc~.pd help file in your Pd path, then of course you may have problems. (This might be an issue in pd-extended, I don't know, I don't use it normally.) The "fix" is to move blosc~.pd to 5.reference or rename it to blosc~-help.pd or write a bug report for pd-extended.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
Okay, I didn't post the below "self-referential" part someone else did. I am not sure what they meant by their language. Nevertheless, blosc~ is indeed broken and not working, and I don't mean the helpfile, I mean the object itself.
HOWEVER, bandolero works great, just what I needed, thanks Frank! (I'm not sure it would be usable in live performance though - very tough on the CPU ...) But it indeed sounds like a nice and proper saw wave!
~David
On 3/15/07, Frank Barknecht fbar@footils.org wrote:
Hallo, David Powers hat gesagt: // David Powers wrote:
Thanks for your help, I'm sorry to sound grumpy, it's just that in searching the archives mostly all I found was my old query for a year ago. Plus everyone says to use [blosc~] but I posted in my first post, that [blosc~] is broken, and I believe that it's known, ie here is says: http://blog.soundsorange.net/index.php/archives/2006/09/28/exploring-pd-exte... "exploring pd extended 27/9/2006 CPU load rating blosc~ - intriguing band limited oscillators, but patch is self referential and not working"
The blosc~ we're referring to is not a patch, it is an external. I suppose by self-referential you mean, that the help-file for blosc~ has the same name as the blosc~-external. That is generally no problem and many older externals had their help files named like the object, because the help file is located in a different directory than the external. If you have installed the blosc~.pd help file in your Pd path, then of course you may have problems. (This might be an issue in pd-extended, I don't know, I don't use it normally.) The "fix" is to move blosc~.pd to 5.reference or rename it to blosc~-help.pd or write a bug report for pd-extended.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
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Hallo, David Powers hat gesagt: // David Powers wrote:
Okay, I didn't post the below "self-referential" part someone else did. I am not sure what they meant by their language. Nevertheless, blosc~ is indeed broken and not working, and I don't mean the helpfile, I mean the object itself.
It's not broken, it works. ;)
(Could you be a bit more specific what "doesn't work" and "is broken" means?)
CIao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
This doesn't explain why, but the objects fail to initialize: " creb/blosc~ ... couldn't create"
~David
On 3/16/07, Frank Barknecht fbar@footils.org wrote:
Hallo, David Powers hat gesagt: // David Powers wrote:
Okay, I didn't post the below "self-referential" part someone else did. I am not sure what they meant by their language. Nevertheless, blosc~ is indeed broken and not working, and I don't mean the helpfile, I mean the object itself.
It's not broken, it works. ;)
(Could you be a bit more specific what "doesn't work" and "is broken" means?)
CIao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Hallo, David Powers hat gesagt: // David Powers wrote:
This doesn't explain why, but the objects fail to initialize: " creb/blosc~ ... couldn't create"
This looks like a "didn't find binary" error. I don't remember what OS you're on, but you may look for a blosc~.dll or a blosc~.pd_darwin and put that directory in your path. Maybe you also have creb as a full library, then search creab.dll/creb.pd_darwin and load that with -lib. The final thing that might be wrong is a nameclash between blosc~.pd and blosc~.dll/pd_darwin. Just move blosc~.pd to blosc~-help.pd then.
If all that fails then you don't have blosc~ installed at all and you should install it first.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
Oh yeah, I know all this, I thought FOR SURE that I checked, but in this case it's my own stupidity. I don't have a copy of blosc~.dll ... OOPS ... But it seems the sourceforge page here is down: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/pure-data/externals/ Assuming that's where I get the dll...
~David
On 3/16/07, Frank Barknecht fbar@footils.org wrote:
Hallo, David Powers hat gesagt: // David Powers wrote:
This doesn't explain why, but the objects fail to initialize: " creb/blosc~ ... couldn't create"
This looks like a "didn't find binary" error. I don't remember what OS you're on, but you may look for a blosc~.dll or a blosc~.pd_darwin and put that directory in your path. Maybe you also have creb as a full library, then search creab.dll/creb.pd_darwin and load that with -lib. The final thing that might be wrong is a nameclash between blosc~.pd and blosc~.dll/pd_darwin. Just move blosc~.pd to blosc~-help.pd then.
If all that fails then you don't have blosc~ installed at all and you should install it first.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
David Powers wrote:
Oh yeah, I know all this, I thought FOR SURE that I checked, but in this case it's my own stupidity. I don't have a copy of blosc~.dll ... OOPS ... But it seems the sourceforge page here is down: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/pure-data/externals/
yes, this page is non-existant for 1 year or so. where did you store that link? please update it to http://pure-data.cvs.sourceforge.net/pure-data/externals/
Assuming that's where I get the dll...
hopefully not. if so, i strongly vote for deleting it from the CVS.
mfgar IOhannes
All these problems are because google is bringing up the old locations for things still, most likely because there are a lot of pages up on the web incorrectly linking to the old sites, at least that's my guess.
The reason I was googling is that I was on my work computer, and I don't save non-work bookmarks there.
~David
On 3/17/07, IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoelnig@iem.at wrote:
David Powers wrote:
Oh yeah, I know all this, I thought FOR SURE that I checked, but in this case it's my own stupidity. I don't have a copy of blosc~.dll ... OOPS ... But it seems the sourceforge page here is down: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/pure-data/externals/
yes, this page is non-existant for 1 year or so. where did you store that link? please update it to http://pure-data.cvs.sourceforge.net/pure-data/externals/
Assuming that's where I get the dll...
hopefully not. if so, i strongly vote for deleting it from the CVS.
mfgar IOhannes
David Powers wrote:
All these problems are because google is bringing up the old locations for things still, most likely because there are a lot of pages up on the web incorrectly linking to the old sites, at least that's my guess.
My guess is that it is because Google honours this (as it should):
http://pure-data.cvs.sourceforge.net/robots.txt
It is frustrating that Google still lists the non-longer-existant pages, but I don't know what can be done about that.
Claude
On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 11:52 -0600, David Powers wrote:
Hi Roman, I get the following error from your patch, for many of the tables: error: 1002-square33: number of points (512) not a power of 2 plus three
Along with this error, it seems to stop playing somewhere above 360 Hz...
Thanks for your help, I'm sorry to sound grumpy, it's just that in searching the archives mostly all I found was my old query for a year ago. Plus everyone says to use [blosc~] but I posted in my first post, that [blosc~] is broken, and I believe that it's known, ie here is says: http://blog.soundsorange.net/index.php/archives/2006/09/28/exploring-pd-exte... "exploring pd extended 27/9/2006 CPU load rating blosc~ - intriguing band limited oscillators, but patch is self referential and not working"
Again, a reminder that this isn't really for me, but rather, it's the list members chance to sell other people on PD being useful, or not, to the outside world. [vst~] is working great so I can demonstrate subtractive synthesis with VST's within pure data, but that's suggesting to people that PD isn't really good for traditional synthesis... So if you think PD is good for synthesis, let me know about it!!!
***Note: I personally don't use PD with Gem for VJing, and to make weird generative MIDI sequences, mostly... I never really considered synthesis a strong point for PD, for reasons that should now be obvious.
i disagree with you in this point. i admit, that you'd need to make some effort and bring some knowledge about the topic, but that doesn't prove that pd isn't good in synthesis. however, subtractive synthesis is one of many synthesing methods you can do in pd. if it would be impossible to do subtractive synthesis in pd, it would still be wrong to consider pd as unsuitable for synthesis generally.
anyhow, like often in a technical world, faults happen because human beeings are not perfect. i am sorry, that after all even my patch did not work on your computer. actually it is a very easy fix. for some reason my pd (0.40.2) didn't complain about my mistake. i changed the table-size to 515 now. it switches around 360Hz from raw_square to bandlimited square, that is why you didn't hear anything above that frequency. i really hope, it works now.
cheers roman
~David
On 3/14/07, Roman Haefeli reduzierer@yahoo.de wrote:
hello again
i improved guenter's bandlimited square a bit. i noticed that it is hardcoded to 48kHz and accidently i was running pd at 48kHz, that's why it sounded quite good here. however, how far i can see it, the part, that selects the appropriate table, is not working as it should. i couldn't completely follow, how it works, but it seems to switch only correct from tab1 to tab2. for other tabs it switches at too high frequencies, which might introduce a bit aliasing. in my version the tables are generated on loadbang, which makes the file much smaller and easier to adapt for other waveforms. the tabselector is now dependent on the sampling rate, so it should sound well at different rates now. in order to provide the full spectrum even in low frequencies, i added a raw square generator. below a certain frequency, the oscillator switches to the raw square version, so that it should sound good at arbitrary low frequencies. the number of tables generated on loadbang can be changed. a bigger value lowers the frequency, at which the oscillator switches to the raw version and vice versa.
i hope you'll have fun with it.
roman
On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 04:46 -0600, David Powers wrote:
I found those, but are they really band-limited? I'm fairly sure I hear ugly digital artifacts in the saw. The square appears to be broken, unless I made a mistake cutting and pasting those 1500 lines of code into my text editor (kinda hard to tell).
It's 5 30 am here and I've not slept yet :-(
I can't believe there's STILL no readily available external/abstraction for such a common synthesis task, I just want a "nice sounding" example that will compare with the VST's which I will be hosting from within PD; right now "ASynth" sounds about 100x better than anything made in PD itself ...
Oh and I don't see any "J" example PD patches, my PD patches don't go that high.
~David
On 3/14/07, Roman Haefeli reduzierer@yahoo.de wrote:
hello david
i found examples for a bandlimited saw and bandlimited square by g. geiger in the archives. might this is what you are looking for.
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2006-05/038681.html
cheers roman
On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 03:05 -0600, David Powers wrote:
Hello everyone,
I tried google and it was no help, and the server for the list archive seems to be down temporarily.
Anyway, I'm giving a free (as in free beer) workshop in Chicago in about 16 hours, on the basics of digital synthesis. I have decided to use Pure Data to give my presentation, and use mostly non-commercial software.
However, I'm still missing the following for demonstrating "proper" subtractive synthesis:
- Good, out of the box "analog-sounding" filters. I'm using [moog~]
right now, but I'm not all that satisfied with the sound compared to the filters in my favorite VST's ... 2. Band-limited square and sawtooth waveforms.
For teaching purposes PD is great, and ideal for my demonstrations. But as it is, I'm having to use VST's within PD in order to demonstrate a "nice sounding" synth. It would be nice to show that PD can do it without using stuff built in Steinberg's format. That would also let the Mac people replicate my work, if they are interested. Note, nobody in the workshop has ever tried Linux, except me, so Linux plugins are not helpful in this case.
I will post my patches after I give the workshop, though they are nothing fancy ... just basic: sequencer - oscillator - vca - filter. Good for demoing though, I'm starting with additive first, then subtractive.
~David
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de
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-
Claude Heiland-Allen -
David Powers -
Frank Barknecht -
IOhannes m zmoelnig -
Martin Peach -
Peter Plessas -
Roman Haefeli