Sadly it's too late to include Xth Sense to Pd-ext, I already ask for the inclusion of PdMtl and Mtl Abstraction in the next Pd-ext (0.43).
ooh :/ wow, PdMtl is out there since ages... I always thought why it is not yet included.
Quoting Hans
" ... I think its too late for 0.43, but 0.44 is definitely possible. With much less work, we can make it easy for people to find and install themselves, and that takes effect once you do it. Only one small thing has been added since November, so its in feature freeze.
I see, fair enough. But why it is such a hassle? If the library is ready according to the community guidelines, is it still a pain to include it?
- Having it on github will make that a easier too. You don't need to
make release tarballs, for example, you can just tag a release in git, ie "git tag v0.1", then github makes a link to a downloadable tarball.
Xth Sense is happily on github already.
- adding it to the puredata.info/downloads section will make it easy for
people to find
- and making sure it works fine when you drop it into ~/pd-externals,
~/Library/Pd, etc.
did that to facilitate installation process during my workshop. Will add it to downloads when it will be ready.
On Mar 9, 2012, at 10:20 AM, Marco Donnarumma wrote:
Sadly it's too late to include Xth Sense to Pd-ext, I already ask for the inclusion of PdMtl and Mtl Abstraction in the next Pd-ext (0.43).
ooh :/ wow, PdMtl is out there since ages... I always thought why it is not yet included.
One showstopper is that it relies on objects that are not included in Pd-extended (pool, last I checked). But mostly its because there has never been a proper versioned release.
Quoting Hans " ... I think its too late for 0.43, but 0.44 is definitely possible. With much less work, we can make it easy for people to find and install themselves, and that takes effect once you do it. Only one small thing has been added since November, so its in feature freeze.
I see, fair enough. But why it is such a hassle? If the library is ready according to the community guidelines, is it still a pain to include it?
People have come to expect quite a bit of consistency with libraries in Pd-extended, and this consistency is cross-platform. Indeed this is a core goal of Pd-extended. That means that new libraries need to be checked so that they are known to work the same across all platforms that Pd-extended supports. It also means that every object included in Pd-extended will work with only Pd-extended, no external libraries required. And it means that every object has its own help patch, and so on, and so forth.
If you think that getting into Debian/testing is hard, that is easier than it seems. The library template takes care of that for you, and I'm happy to sponsor/upload/maintain in Debian any Pd library that is based on the Library Template.
- Having it on github will make that a easier too. You don't need to
make release tarballs, for example, you can just tag a release in git, ie "git tag v0.1", then github makes a link to a downloadable tarball.
Xth Sense is happily on github already.
- adding it to the puredata.info/downloads section will make it easy for
people to find
- and making sure it works fine when you drop it into ~/pd-externals,
~/Library/Pd, etc.
did that to facilitate installation process during my workshop. Will add it to downloads when it will be ready.
Tag a release, and github will make a download link for you. Then you can add that to the downloads page.
.hc
Man has survived hitherto because he was too ignorant to know how to realize his wishes. Now that he can realize them, he must either change them, or perish. -William Carlos Williams
Thanks Hans.
I still think it is doable for the Xth Sense lib, this is the current state of the lib according to the guidelines.
OK_ it is cross-platform, I did 7 workshops in 2011 with this tools on different machines.
OK_ the lib is in Libdir format
OK_ it is already released as a standalone Libdir on github and puredata.info
NOT OK_ Two objects do depend on something not included in Pd-extended what could be the best way to solve this issue?
OK_ it is listed in the puredata.org libraries page http://puredata.info/downloads/xth-sense-library
OK_ I'm happy to do Debian/testing with some guidance
Let me know what do you think, if the inclusion is possible, and if I'm missing something. Gonna subscribe to Pd-dev.
thanks, M
On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@at.or.atwrote:
On Mar 9, 2012, at 10:20 AM, Marco Donnarumma wrote:
Sadly it's too late to include Xth Sense to Pd-ext, I already ask for the inclusion of PdMtl and Mtl Abstraction in the next Pd-ext (0.43).
ooh :/ wow, PdMtl is out there since ages... I always thought why it is not yet included.
One showstopper is that it relies on objects that are not included in Pd-extended (pool, last I checked). But mostly its because there has never been a proper versioned release.
Quoting Hans
" ... I think its too late for 0.43, but 0.44 is definitely possible. With much less work, we can make it easy for people to find and install themselves, and that takes effect once you do it. Only one small thing has been added since November, so its in feature freeze.
I see, fair enough. But why it is such a hassle? If the library is ready according to the community guidelines, is it still a pain to include it?
People have come to expect quite a bit of consistency with libraries in Pd-extended, and this consistency is cross-platform. Indeed this is a core goal of Pd-extended. That means that new libraries need to be checked so that they are known to work the same across all platforms that Pd-extended supports. It also means that every object included in Pd-extended will work with only Pd-extended, no external libraries required. And it means that every object has its own help patch, and so on, and so forth.
If you think that getting into Debian/testing is hard, that is easier than it seems. The library template takes care of that for you, and I'm happy to sponsor/upload/maintain in Debian any Pd library that is based on the Library Template.
- Having it on github will make that a easier too. You don't need to
make release tarballs, for example, you can just tag a release in git, ie "git tag v0.1", then github makes a link to a downloadable tarball.
Xth Sense is happily on github already.
- adding it to the puredata.info/downloads section will make it easy for
people to find
- and making sure it works fine when you drop it into ~/pd-externals,
~/Library/Pd, etc.
did that to facilitate installation process during my workshop. Will add it to downloads when it will be ready.
Tag a release, and github will make a download link for you. Then you can add that to the downloads page.
.hc
Man has survived hitherto because he was too ignorant to know how to realize his wishes. Now that he can realize them, he must either change them, or perish. -William Carlos Williams
Looks like lots of progress, that's good to see. :-)
On Mar 9, 2012, at 11:49 AM, Marco Donnarumma wrote:
Thanks Hans.
I still think it is doable for the Xth Sense lib, this is the current state of the lib according to the guidelines.
OK_ it is cross-platform, I did 7 workshops in 2011 with this tools on different machines.
OK_ the lib is in Libdir format
OK_ it is already released as a standalone Libdir on github and puredata.info
A link to master in git is not a release. That is a moving target, it will always download the latest code from from git. A release has a version and a static download, and has been thoroughly tested. Think of any software you use: pd-extended, firefox, Ubuntu, Mac OS X, any of those many many libs included in your system, etc.
NOT OK_ Two objects do depend on something not included in Pd-extended what could be the best way to solve this issue?
Either remove that dependency, or work to get that dependency into Pd-extended.
OK_ it is listed in the puredata.org libraries page http://puredata.info/downloads/xth-sense-library
OK_ I'm happy to do Debian/testing with some guidance
Basically, make your library based off of the Library Template, and the rest is easy. If its only Pd patches, then you just need to list the names of all your objects in PDOBJECTS = , then run "make install" and "make dist" to test it. Check out other libs for examples, like mapping, list-abs, etc.
Let me know what do you think, if the inclusion is possible, and if I'm missing something. Gonna subscribe to Pd-dev.
Inclusion in 0.43.1 is not possible, but all of this work is not in vain. It will make it much easier for people to download and install your library, regardless of whether its included in Pd-extended or not. And it will also lead to inclusion in 0.44.
.hc
thanks, M
On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@at.or.at wrote:
On Mar 9, 2012, at 10:20 AM, Marco Donnarumma wrote:
Sadly it's too late to include Xth Sense to Pd-ext, I already ask for the inclusion of PdMtl and Mtl Abstraction in the next Pd-ext (0.43).
ooh :/ wow, PdMtl is out there since ages... I always thought why it is not yet included.
One showstopper is that it relies on objects that are not included in Pd-extended (pool, last I checked). But mostly its because there has never been a proper versioned release.
Quoting Hans " ... I think its too late for 0.43, but 0.44 is definitely possible. With much less work, we can make it easy for people to find and install themselves, and that takes effect once you do it. Only one small thing has been added since November, so its in feature freeze.
I see, fair enough. But why it is such a hassle? If the library is ready according to the community guidelines, is it still a pain to include it?
People have come to expect quite a bit of consistency with libraries in Pd-extended, and this consistency is cross-platform. Indeed this is a core goal of Pd-extended. That means that new libraries need to be checked so that they are known to work the same across all platforms that Pd-extended supports. It also means that every object included in Pd-extended will work with only Pd-extended, no external libraries required. And it means that every object has its own help patch, and so on, and so forth.
If you think that getting into Debian/testing is hard, that is easier than it seems. The library template takes care of that for you, and I'm happy to sponsor/upload/maintain in Debian any Pd library that is based on the Library Template.
- Having it on github will make that a easier too. You don't need to
make release tarballs, for example, you can just tag a release in git, ie "git tag v0.1", then github makes a link to a downloadable tarball.
Xth Sense is happily on github already.
- adding it to the puredata.info/downloads section will make it easy for
people to find
- and making sure it works fine when you drop it into ~/pd-externals,
~/Library/Pd, etc.
did that to facilitate installation process during my workshop. Will add it to downloads when it will be ready.
Tag a release, and github will make a download link for you. Then you can add that to the downloads page.
.hc
Man has survived hitherto because he was too ignorant to know how to realize his wishes. Now that he can realize them, he must either change them, or perish. -William Carlos Williams
-- Marco Donnarumma New Media + Sonic Arts Practitioner, Performer, Teacher, Director. ACE, Sound Design MSc by Research (ongoing) The University of Edinburgh, UK
Portfolio: http://marcodonnarumma.com Research: http://res.marcodonnarumma.com | http://www.thesaddj.com | http://www.flxer.net Director: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net
¡El pueblo unido jamás será vencido!
Looks like lots of progress, that's good to see. :-)
:)
A link to master in git is not a release. That is a moving target, it will always download the latest code from from git. A release has a version and a static download, and has been thoroughly tested. Think of any software you use: pd-extended, firefox, Ubuntu, Mac OS X, any of those many many libs included in your system, etc.
Yes, I know. I set up a tag in my local git, but can't figure out how to
update github, so to have the link you mentioned earlier.
Either remove that dependency, or work to get that dependency into Pd-extended.
Yep, banal question :)
Basically, make your library based off of the Library Template, and the rest is easy. If its only Pd patches, then you just need to list the names of all your objects in PDOBJECTS = , then run "make install" and "make dist" to test it. Check out other libs for examples, like mapping, list-abs, etc.
Ok, thanks, will do.
Inclusion in 0.43.1 is not possible, but all of this work is not in vain. It will make it much easier for people to download and install your library, regardless of whether its included in Pd-extended or not. And it will also lead to inclusion in 0.44.
Ok, there's no problem. It is my concern to make the library as accessible as possible.
cheers, M
Yes, I know. I set up a tag in my local git, but can't figure out how to update github, so to have the link you mentioned earlier.
git push --tags -u origin master
Ok, I also have the link to the static release. I feel conformed now :)
On Mar 9, 2012, at 2:20 PM, Marco Donnarumma wrote:
Yes, I know. I set up a tag in my local git, but can't figure out how to update github, so to have the link you mentioned earlier.
git push --tags -u origin master
Ok, I also have the link to the static release. I feel conformed now :)
This might seem annoying, but I have found it makes it much easier for people to install things: the meta file "xthsense-meta.pd", the download page title "Xth-Sense-library", the library name "Xth-Sense-lib", and the folder from the download folder "marcodsad-Xth-Sense-lib-5299660" are all different names.
That means people have to know that the have to rename "marcodsad-Xth-Sense-lib-5299660" to "xthsense" in order to make it work like a lib. Instead I propose this:
- create a folder in your git called "xthsense"
- move all of the objects into that folder
- add a README.txt telling people to drop the "xthsense" folder into the standard user folder:
http://puredata.info/docs/faq/how-do-i-install-externals-and-help-files
- rename the /downloads/ page to "xthsense"
It can be called something other than "xthsense", it just needs to be the same name everywhere. Also, for read-me in libdirs, README.txt is the standard name, not README.
.hc
There is no way to peace, peace is the way. -A.J. Muste
This might seem annoying, but I have found it makes it much easier for people to install things: the meta file "xthsense-meta.pd", the download page title "Xth-Sense-library", the library name "Xth-Sense-lib", and the folder from the download folder "marcodsad-Xth-Sense-lib-5299660" are all different names.
No, it's not annoying at all, it is actually a good point. I renamed everything related to the XS lib as "xth-sense-lib". I'd rather the dashes instead of one word as there are other two projects out there called xsens and xsense. On top of that, there is also the software which, guess what?, is called Xth Sense.
Anyway, I renamed the Pd portal page, the github repo and the *meta.pd too. Added also a new tag for the current snapshot.
- create a folder in your git called "xthsense"
- move all of the objects into that folder
- add a README.txt telling people to drop the "xthsense" folder into the
standard user folder: http://puredata.info/docs/faq/how-do-i-install-externals-and-help-files
I'm not really sure either I understand this correctly, or I agree with it. You mean change my local repo, by including a subfolder into the main library folder which would include all the objects? and then push everything?
If ppl have to unzip a file, find a folder with a weird name, go into it, take the new folder with the right name, and put it somewhere, I don't see why this would be easier than just unzip the github file, rename the first folder you get and move it.
I can't find other examples to understand better what you mean.
thanks for your advice,
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 2012-03-09 21:01, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
This might seem annoying, but I have found it makes it much easier for people to install things: the meta file "xthsense-meta.pd", the download page title "Xth-Sense-library", the library name "Xth-Sense-lib", and the folder from the download folder "marcodsad-Xth-Sense-lib-5299660" are all different names.
"marcodsad-Xth-Sense-lib-5299660" seems to be like a github generated directory name, which you cannot do much about. i guess the best approach is to properly tag the release at github, then download the zip extract it, rename the root-folder re-zip it with the new name and upload it to e.g. puredata.info/downloads
github#s download-tagged-versions feature is great but i don't think it is targeted at the super lay audience which you seem to be talking about...
mtf IOhannes
Le 2012-03-09 à 15:20:00, Marco Donnarumma a écrit :
wow, PdMtl is out there since ages... I always thought why it is not yet included.
Yes, and there are also much older libs than that, that aren't included either.
| Mathieu BOUCHARD ----- téléphone : +1.514.383.3801 ----- Montréal, QC
On Mar 9, 2012, at 12:54 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
Le 2012-03-09 à 15:20:00, Marco Donnarumma a écrit :
wow, PdMtl is out there since ages... I always thought why it is not yet included.
Yes, and there are also much older libs than that, that aren't included either.
Yes indeed, gridflow is a great example of a very elaborate library that is now really easy to install and use with Pd. The gridflow team has done that on their own outside of Pd-extended, and should be commended for it. It means they can push out updates on their own schedule and not have to fit into the long release cycle of Pd-extended, and also, it makes it easy to use gridflow with Pd-vanilla, etc.
.hc
News is what people want to keep hidden and everything else is publicity. - Bill Moyers
-
Hans-Christoph Steiner -
IOhannes m zmoelnig -
Marco Donnarumma -
Mathieu Bouchard