Anybody interested in arpeggio/scale gizmos there's a new synth up on http://www.obiwannabe.co.uk/html/toys/hillageizer/hillageizer.html
Cheers, Andy
aaargghhh!! maybe it would be a good idea to add a [loadbang] - [; pd dsp 1(
!!!!
i just spent a good 15 minutes trying to figure out why it wasn't working.
I don't think that's actually the best practice. For debugging purposes, it can be useful to have patches start with audio off. I never automate that function personally. I think you just forgot, that not everyone has the audio turn on right away in PD!
~David
On 9/25/06, hard off hard.off@gmail.com wrote:
aaargghhh!! maybe it would be a good idea to add a [loadbang] - [; pd dsp 1(
!!!!
i just spent a good 15 minutes trying to figure out why it wasn't working.
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Yeah, I know it's an old debate but I tend to go with DSP=OFF @ start for the debugging reasons mentioned, at least with most synth patches, some patches for installations or utility applications I make start DSP=1. Don't forget there is a little indicator on the TCL console window frame that says "compute audio" or something. But I rarely see this because usually the patch window opens on top of the console. :/ a.
On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 09:18:36 -0500 "David Powers" cyborgk@gmail.com wrote:
I don't think that's actually the best practice. For debugging purposes, it can be useful to have patches start with audio off. I never automate that function personally. I think you just forgot, that not everyone has the audio turn on right away in PD!
~David
On 9/25/06, hard off hard.off@gmail.com wrote:
aaargghhh!! maybe it would be a good idea to add a [loadbang] - [; pd dsp 1(
!!!!
i just spent a good 15 minutes trying to figure out why it wasn't working.
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On Tue, 26 Sep 2006, padawan12 wrote:
Yeah, I know it's an old debate but I tend to go with DSP=OFF @ start for the debugging reasons mentioned, at least with most synth patches, some patches for installations or utility applications I make start DSP=1. Don't forget there is a little indicator on the TCL console window frame that says "compute audio" or something. But I rarely see this because usually the patch window opens on top of the console. :/
Would a MDI (Multi-Document Interface) be a good idea? I don't necessarily mean what's called "MDI" in Windows: it could be tabbed subwindows, as in Mozilla, Opera, the old XChat; or it could be listboxed subwindows as in Kate, or the new XChat; or it could be menued subwindows as in Emacs or SciTE or LyX. (I don't know that many applications, I'm just giving a few examples)
_ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801 - http://artengine.ca/matju | Freelance Digital Arts Engineer, Montréal QC Canada
[toggle] | [; pd dsp $1(
would be ok, for idiots like myself who assume dsp is loadbanged.
That slowly moving [vd~] flanger does the business on sawtooth/string pads, that's the trick there I think.
On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 18:06:08 +0900 "hard off" hard.off@gmail.com wrote:
works well though. ..the synths sound not too shabby either.
I don't know all your examples, BUT: tabbed subwindows would be SWEET. It gets really annoying in my VJ interface, when I have to find something inside a subpatch inside a subpatch inside a subpatch inside an abstraction ... and end up with 10 browser windows open and also need to see console output.
It would also be cool if you could browse through your patch structure in a directory type style, in order to find and open the one part you need without opening all the layers between...
~David
On 9/26/06, Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca wrote:
Would a MDI (Multi-Document Interface) be a good idea? I don't necessarily mean what's called "MDI" in Windows: it could be tabbed subwindows, as in Mozilla, Opera, the old XChat; or it could be listboxed subwindows as in Kate, or the new XChat; or it could be menued subwindows as in Emacs or SciTE or LyX. (I don't know that many applications, I'm just giving a few examples)
David Powers cyborgk@gmail.com a écrit : It gets really annoying in my VJ interface, when I have to find something inside a subpatch inside a subpatch inside a subpatch inside an abstraction ... and end up with 10 browser windows open and also need to see console output.
It would also be cool if you could browse through your patch structure in a directory type style, in order to find and open the one part you need without opening all the layers between...
You seems to need menu buttons and [; pd-subpatch vis $1( messages for opening different parts, and messages to sliders for avoiding to have a GUI for each different layers or parameters. I think it's awkward to use one slider for each different parameter, or layer, when a message to the slider can be used to change it's assignation.
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Yes, this is a good and useful point. I hate to always be such an Ableton fanboy, but they really have done a remarkable job at maximizing their interface depth vs. space requirements, as well as keyboard integration. All the menus are in the same plane, separated by gui panels that can be adjusted or hidden. The two modes of operation can be toggled easily with the tab key, (almost like esc in vi or ctrl+e in pd).
It would be great to have a fully functional interface in pd that works similarly, by using the same space on the canvas and updating it depending on which parameters are being adjusted. Right now it seems like a lot of work to do that. It would be easier if there were some kinds of layers a la photoshop/gimp, which could be passed forward and backward by messages.
~Kyle
On 9/26/06, patco megalegoland@yahoo.fr wrote:
David Powers cyborgk@gmail.com a écrit :
It gets really annoying in my VJ interface, when I have to find something inside a subpatch inside a subpatch inside a subpatch inside an abstraction ... and end up with 10 browser windows open and also need to see console output.
It would also be cool if you could browse through your patch structure in a directory type style, in order to find and open the one part you need without opening all the layers between...
You seems to need menu buttons and [; pd-subpatch vis $1( messages for opening different parts, and messages to sliders for avoiding to have a GUI for each different layers or parameters. I think it's awkward to use one slider for each different parameter, or layer, when a message to the slider can be used to change it's assignation.
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Ableton fanboy, but they really have done a remarkable job at maximizing their interface depth vs. space requirements, as well as keyboard integration. All the menus are in the same plane, separated by gui panels that can be adjusted or hidden. The two modes of operation can be toggled easily with the tab key, (almost like esc in vi or ctrl+e in pd).
quite unlike the Win/OSuX norm.. where the proliferation of unmanaged windows and plugin GUIs requires a pair of 23" flatpanels and several RSI incidences of mousing around..and 'Exposé' features just to find anything..
altho Ableton is a good start, and proabbly made the most pragmatic choice given the host OSes, i think something like 3 panels, one status/console, one patch/plugin/instance/class tree, and one workspace, as seperate clients is a sweet spot, as the user can rearrange those as necessary but never be forced to manage an ever-increasing pile of windows..
Ingen is arranged like this (single window w/ breadcrumbs, and seperate patch/plugin browser, proper jack support, 64 bit compatibility, in-process or external GUI, engine bindings avilable via SWIG), but neither DSSI or LV2 have so much as a sampler object..despite the theoretical plausibility of porting all pd objects and/or creating a flext target platform for LV2...both high on my list if i could afford to sponsor development..
as an example of how broken the PD-gui sea-of-windows paradigm is,
when i open up a patch in desireData, it opens every subpatch, and of course dwm tiles these along the right edge. with so much space wasted on each client with menu bars, button bars, status bars, and scrollbars, the end result is a screenful of JMax icons:
http://whats-your.name/i/dd.png
( i wouldnt consider this a usable interface, but it is proably very comfortable for mac/windows users )
c
On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 19:55:42 +0000 carmen _@whats-your.name wrote:
with so much space wasted on each client
I think that's the nub of it with the console itself, which is ostensibly a text output terminal and under ideal conditions is never used (it's mostly for debug and errors). Have that collapse into the main GUI and you just saved about 90% screen real estate, perhaps have a red indicator to show new console output when it's hidden. Now you can put a very small main window up in one corner instead of minimising it to get it out of the way.
On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 21:55:43 +0200 (CEST) patco megalegoland@yahoo.fr wrote:
PS: I am a big fan of Steve Hillage, Hillageizer is a pure Marvel, thanks a lot, I would like to add it to my multimedia project, can I?
For sure. I'd love to hear any music made with it, in a bigger context.
Kyle Klipowicz kyleklip@gmail.com a écrit : It would be great to have a fully functional interface in pd that works similarly, by using the same space on the canvas and updating it depending on which parameters are being adjusted. Right now it seems like a lot of work to do that. It would be easier if there were some kinds of layers a la photoshop/gimp, which could be passed forward and backward by messages.
It's not a lot of job with pd-40-test-8 new features ($1-$2 is the most significant), list objects, and zexy/demux-mux. I know it by experience. Why would we bother with different layers when it's possible to create-destroy different GOP patches on the main interface? I'll send soon an example that will show that it's not so difficult to make a dynamic interface with pure data. Also One thing with ableton and many other softwares I've found interesting is about hide-unhide different parts of an interface with a simple click, or magnifying different kinds buttons with a mouse-over. Patco
PS: I am a big fan of Steve Hillage, Hillageizer is a pure Marvel, thanks a lot, I would like to add it to my multimedia project, can I?
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Hallo, patco hat gesagt: // patco wrote:
I think it's awkward to use one slider for each different parameter, or layer, when a message to the slider can be used to change it's assignation.
Another approach would be "tag" the slider's output and use route for retargetting GUI elements. Attached is an example for this.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
Frank~
What an elegant and awesome idea! Thanks again!
~Kyle
On 9/26/06, Frank Barknecht fbar@footils.org wrote:
Hallo, patco hat gesagt: // patco wrote:
I think it's awkward to use one slider for each different parameter, or layer, when a message to the slider can be used to change it's assignation.
Another approach would be "tag" the slider's output and use route for retargetting GUI elements. Attached is an example for this.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
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On Tue, Sep 26, 2006 at 10:33:48AM -0500, David Powers wrote:
I don't know all your examples, BUT: tabbed subwindows would be SWEET.
If you run Fluxbox as a window manager, you can make any application into a tabbed application. I sometimes do this with Pd.
Best,
Chris.
chris@mccormick.cx http://mccormick.cx
Yep, since the gui already knows about subpatches and abstractions (or can at least traverse any patch structure) why not have a tree browser someplace, where clicking an entry is equivilent to [vis 1 name( to bring up that window quickly? To be honest it only seems a problem once patches get about 4 deep, but after that my search time for moving from part of a patch to another goes up significantly.
On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 10:33:48 -0500 "David Powers" cyborgk@gmail.com wrote:
It would also be cool if you could browse through your patch structure in a directory type style, in order to find and open the one part you need without opening all the layers between...
~David
On 9/26/06, Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca wrote:
Would a MDI (Multi-Document Interface) be a good idea? I don't necessarily mean what's called "MDI" in Windows: it could be tabbed subwindows, as in Mozilla, Opera, the old XChat; or it could be listboxed subwindows as in Kate, or the new XChat; or it could be menued subwindows as in Emacs or SciTE or LyX. (I don't know that many applications, I'm just giving a few examples)
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Andy,
This patch is incredible! Wonderful stuff, I'm totally inspired.
Chris.
chris@mccormick.cx http://mccormick.cx
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carmen -
Chris McCormick -
David Powers -
Frank Barknecht -
hard off -
Kyle Klipowicz -
Mathieu Bouchard -
padawan12 -
patco