Hi everybody.
I regularly read the blog @ analogindustries.com, and today an interesting post about pd vs max/msp stability on macintel appeared.
You can read about it here http://www.analogindustries.com/blog/entry.php?blogid=1299508451902
To be honest, I always found pd on PPC macs to be fairly stable for my needs, and the author of the post (in comments) points out that on pc's pd is fairly stable too.
So I just wanted to bring out the matter to the community, just for the sake of discussion. No hatred please! :)
cheers, p.
A quick search of the mailing list and bug tracker don't reveal anything from Chris Randall. As a software developer he is no doubt aware that user bug reports are vital to fixing problems. I think he could have done a bit more to help his situation.
On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 11:45 AM, pierlu pierlu@gmail.com wrote:
Hi everybody.
I regularly read the blog @ analogindustries.com, and today an interesting post about pd vs max/msp stability on macintel appeared.
You can read about it here http://www.analogindustries.com/blog/entry.php?blogid=1299508451902
To be honest, I always found pd on PPC macs to be fairly stable for my needs, and the author of the post (in comments) points out that on pc's pd is fairly stable too.
So I just wanted to bring out the matter to the community, just for the sake of discussion. No hatred please! :)
cheers, p.
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Hear hear! Sure, there are crasher bugs with Pd, but if you aren't
even going to bother to report them, how can you expect them to be
fixed? Most of the developers of Pd use Pd in their own work, and
therefore are very likely to fix problems they encounter. I rarely
encounter crasher bugs because I try to fix them when they happen to
me. So that points to something else: the area where the Pd devs work
are the area where Pd will work best. I don't know any Pd dev doing a
lot with VSTs or even MIDI, so that is not where Pd is going to shine.
.hc
On Mar 7, 2011, at 12:23 PM, chris clepper wrote:
A quick search of the mailing list and bug tracker don't reveal
anything from Chris Randall. As a software developer he is no doubt
aware that user bug reports are vital to fixing problems. I think
he could have done a bit more to help his situation.On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 11:45 AM, pierlu pierlu@gmail.com wrote: Hi everybody.
I regularly read the blog @ analogindustries.com, and today an interesting post about pd vs max/msp stability on macintel appeared.
You can read about it here http://www.analogindustries.com/blog/entry.php?blogid=1299508451902
To be honest, I always found pd on PPC macs to be fairly stable for my needs, and the author of the post (in comments) points out that on pc's pd is fairly stable too.
So I just wanted to bring out the matter to the community, just for the sake of discussion. No hatred please! :)
cheers, p.
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
"[W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are
deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from
scarcity." -John Gilmore
Le 07/03/2011 18:33, Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit :
Hear hear! Sure, there are crasher bugs with Pd, but if you aren't even going to bother to report them, how can you expect them to be fixed? Most of the developers of Pd use Pd in their own work, and therefore are very likely to fix problems they encounter. I rarely encounter crasher bugs because I try to fix them when they happen to me. So that points to something else: the area where the Pd devs work are the area where Pd will work best. I don't know any Pd dev doing a lot with VSTs or even MIDI, so that is not where Pd is going to shine.
pd works great with midi. (except sysex). it can be VERY accurate if you start pd -noaudio.
c
.hc
On Mar 7, 2011, at 12:23 PM, chris clepper wrote:
A quick search of the mailing list and bug tracker don't reveal anything from Chris Randall. As a software developer he is no doubt aware that user bug reports are vital to fixing problems. I think he could have done a bit more to help his situation.
On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 11:45 AM, pierlu <pierlu@gmail.com mailto:pierlu@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi everybody. I regularly read the blog @ analogindustries.com <http://analogindustries.com>, and today an interesting post about pd vs max/msp stability on macintel appeared. You can read about it here http://www.analogindustries.com/blog/entry.php?blogid=1299508451902 To be honest, I always found pd on PPC macs to be fairly stable for my needs, and the author of the post (in comments) points out that on pc's pd is fairly stable too. So I just wanted to bring out the matter to the community, just for the sake of discussion. No hatred please! :) cheers, p. _______________________________________________ Pd-list@iem.at <mailto:Pd-list@iem.at> mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@iem.at mailto:Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
"[W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from scarcity." -John Gilmore
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Well it works great with midi even with audio on. The thing I noticed is that cc messages are not as so responsive as midi messages. Working with launchpad I noticed that I can send at once several midi messages by pressing more than one button at a time while when sending cc messages I can only push one button at a time to make cc work properly. (the top row on the launchpad sends cc instead of midi messages).
p.
On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 6:49 PM, cyrille henry ch@chnry.net wrote:
Le 07/03/2011 18:33, Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit :
Hear hear! Sure, there are crasher bugs with Pd, but if you aren't even going to bother to report them, how can you expect them to be fixed? Most of the developers of Pd use Pd in their own work, and therefore are very likely to fix problems they encounter. I rarely encounter crasher bugs because I try to fix them when they happen to me. So that points to something else: the area where the Pd devs work are the area where Pd will work best. I don't know any Pd dev doing a lot with VSTs or even MIDI, so that is not where Pd is going to shine.
pd works great with midi. (except sysex). it can be VERY accurate if you start pd -noaudio.
c
.hc
On Mar 7, 2011, at 12:23 PM, chris clepper wrote:
A quick search of the mailing list and bug tracker don't reveal anything from Chris Randall. As a software developer he is no doubt aware that user bug reports are vital to fixing problems. I think he could have done a bit more to help his situation.
On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 11:45 AM, pierlu <pierlu@gmail.com mailto:pierlu@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi everybody.
I regularly read the blog @ analogindustries.com http://analogindustries.com, and today an interesting post about pd vs max/msp stability on macintel appeared.
You can read about it here http://www.analogindustries.com/blog/entry.php?blogid=1299508451902
To be honest, I always found pd on PPC macs to be fairly stable for my needs, and the author of the post (in comments) points out that on pc's pd is fairly stable too.
So I just wanted to bring out the matter to the community, just for the sake of discussion. No hatred please! :)
cheers, p.
_______________________________________________ Pd-list@iem.at mailto:Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@iem.at mailto:Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
"[W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from scarcity." -John Gilmore
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
when i was giving a short Pd workshop in november there was a parallel session in maxMSP/jitter and one of those students came up to me and was complaining that MAX always crashed.... Pd didn't. just to throw in a equally unspecific report.
Am 08.03.2011 um 01:33 schrieb Hans-Christoph Steiner:
Hear hear! Sure, there are crasher bugs with Pd, but if you aren't even going to bother to report them, how can you expect them to be fixed? Most of the developers of Pd use Pd in their own work, and therefore are very likely to fix problems they encounter. I rarely encounter crasher bugs because I try to fix them when they happen to me. So that points to something else: the area where the Pd devs work are the area where Pd will work best. I don't know any Pd dev doing a lot with VSTs or even MIDI, so that is not where Pd is going to shine.
.hc
On Mar 7, 2011, at 12:23 PM, chris clepper wrote:
A quick search of the mailing list and bug tracker don't reveal anything from Chris Randall. As a software developer he is no doubt aware that user bug reports are vital to fixing problems. I think he could have done a bit more to help his situation.
On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 11:45 AM, pierlu pierlu@gmail.com wrote: Hi everybody.
I regularly read the blog @ analogindustries.com, and today an interesting post about pd vs max/msp stability on macintel appeared.
You can read about it here http://www.analogindustries.com/blog/entry.php?blogid=1299508451902
To be honest, I always found pd on PPC macs to be fairly stable for my needs, and the author of the post (in comments) points out that on pc's pd is fairly stable too.
So I just wanted to bring out the matter to the community, just for the sake of discussion. No hatred please! :)
cheers, p.
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
"[W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from scarcity." -John Gilmore
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Max wrote:
just to throw in a equally unspecific report.
Yes. It's important to answer rumours using rumours.
There's a prof who told me that she couldn't teach Pd, and it was because of its security holes. Then she also told me that Pd doesn't have any video support. After that she stopped answering emails.
I also heard that MAX was so bad, there's a classroom where they had to ban Pd to ensure that it looked like buying MAX licenses had been a good investment.
Much of MAX's popularity is due to vendor lock-in after cheap licenses had been dumped on students who happened to be taking courses that happened to require MAX.
And of course, I mean MAX the software, not Max Neupert. ;)
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC
--- On Tue, 3/8/11, Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca wrote:
From: Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca Subject: Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com To: "Max" abonnements@revolwear.com Cc: "PD list" pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 4:34 AM On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Max wrote:
just to throw in a equally unspecific report.
Yes. It's important to answer rumours using rumours.
There's a prof who told me that she couldn't teach Pd, and it was because of its security holes.
I don't like the fact that every time I create an object in Pd, it is sent to the central Pd server which keeps logs of all the objects in our patches. I think Pd is selling the logs to third parties, because every time I part a stream of numbers I get tons of ads to the console window for Liberty University.
-Jonathan
Then she also told me that Pd doesn't have any video support. After that she stopped answering emails.
I also heard that MAX was so bad, there's a classroom where they had to ban Pd to ensure that it looked like buying MAX licenses had been a good investment.
Much of MAX's popularity is due to vendor lock-in after cheap licenses had been dumped on students who happened to be taking courses that happened to require MAX.
And of course, I mean MAX the software, not Max Neupert. ;)
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
in the way that he is talking about looks like a more generalized problem, but in my personal experience i have no problem at all here, and about a way to configure audio and midi in pd for every time it starts, a software developer should not have a problem on it, even more, if it is using the software for years..well, just my opinion
2011/3/7 pierlu pierlu@gmail.com
Hi everybody.
I regularly read the blog @ analogindustries.com, and today an interesting post about pd vs max/msp stability on macintel appeared.
You can read about it here http://www.analogindustries.com/blog/entry.php?blogid=1299508451902
To be honest, I always found pd on PPC macs to be fairly stable for my needs, and the author of the post (in comments) points out that on pc's pd is fairly stable too.
So I just wanted to bring out the matter to the community, just for the sake of discussion. No hatred please! :)
cheers, p.
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
A "trial" version eh?
Let's see how that comparison is working out in 30 days.
a.
On Mon, 7 Mar 2011 17:45:12 +0100 pierlu pierlu@gmail.com wrote:
Hi everybody.
I regularly read the blog @ analogindustries.com, and today an interesting post about pd vs max/msp stability on macintel appeared.
You can read about it here http://www.analogindustries.com/blog/entry.php?blogid=1299508451902
To be honest, I always found pd on PPC macs to be fairly stable for my needs, and the author of the post (in comments) points out that on pc's pd is fairly stable too.
So I just wanted to bring out the matter to the community, just for the sake of discussion. No hatred please! :)
cheers, p.
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Andy Farnell wrote:
A "trial" version eh? Let's see how that comparison is working out in 30 days.
I've been running a trial version of pd for 8 or 9 years now. I'm waiting for it to expire.
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC
I get asked by people if Pd is ever coming out of beta.
On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 2:47 PM, Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca wrote:
On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Andy Farnell wrote:
A "trial" version eh? Let's see how that comparison is working out in 30
days.
I've been running a trial version of pd for 8 or 9 years now. I'm waiting for it to expire.
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, chris clepper wrote:
I get asked by people if Pd is ever coming out of beta.
Is that because of the version numbers ? They always begin with a zero.
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC
I never thought of that... cheers M
On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 04:45:09PM -0500, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, chris clepper wrote:
I get asked by people if Pd is ever coming out of beta.
Is that because of the version numbers ? They always begin with a zero.
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Miller Puckette wrote:
On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 04:45:09PM -0500, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
Is that because of the version numbers ? They always begin with a zero.
I never thought of that...
It seems to be generalised all over pd : nearly all versioning of externals and abstractions is like that.
I got tired of it and started trimming the 0 at the beginning of version numbers (instead of trying to correct my students when they were already doing so). When Iohannes confirmed that GEM won't ever reach 1.0, I started doing it even more liberally.
Reminds me of the version number war between Digital Research DOS, MicroSoft DOS and IBM DOS... because much of the appreciation for modest, humble version numbers seemed to be in reaction to such sillyness. But it didn't take long before it went silly the other way.
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC
--- On Mon, 3/7/11, Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca wrote:
From: Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca Subject: Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com To: "chris clepper" cgclepper@gmail.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Monday, March 7, 2011, 10:45 PM On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, chris clepper wrote:
I get asked by people if Pd is ever coming out of
beta.
Is that because of the version numbers ? They always begin with a zero.
But Gridflow goes up to 9. So just make sure to install Gridflow with Pd, and you should then be able to instantiate up to nine "simple" objects without Pd randomly crashing on you:
[import gridflow]
[metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] <-- Warning: 10th metro object may crash Pd
-Jonathan
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
On Mar 7, 2011, at 5:07 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
--- On Mon, 3/7/11, Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca wrote:
From: Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca Subject: Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on
analogindustries.com To: "chris clepper" cgclepper@gmail.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Monday, March 7, 2011, 10:45 PM On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, chris clepper wrote:I get asked by people if Pd is ever coming out of
beta.
Is that because of the version numbers ? They always begin with a zero.
But Gridflow goes up to 9. So just make sure to install Gridflow with Pd, and you should then be able to instantiate up to nine "simple"
objects without Pd randomly crashing on you:[import gridflow]
[metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] <-- Warning: 10th metro object may crash Pd
Wait, are you telling me that Pd doesn't got to 11?!? That must be
fixed! But just created 10 linked metros and got no crash on Pd-
extended 0.42.5 on Mac OSX 10.5.8.
.hc
You can't steal a gift. Bird gave the world his music, and if you can
hear it, you can have it. - Dizzy Gillespie
On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
On Mar 7, 2011, at 5:07 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
But Gridflow goes up to 9. So just make sure to install Gridflow with Pd, and you should then be able to instantiate up to nine "simple" objects without Pd randomly crashing on you:
Wait, are you telling me that Pd doesn't got to 11?!? That must be fixed!
Sure. Just wait until April 1st and I'll release GridFlow 11.0.
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC
--- On Mon, 3/7/11, Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@at.or.at wrote:
From: Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com To: "Jonathan Wilkes" jancsika@yahoo.com Cc: "chris clepper" cgclepper@gmail.com, "Mathieu Bouchard" matju@artengine.ca, pd-list@iem.at Date: Monday, March 7, 2011, 11:22 PM
On Mar 7, 2011, at 5:07 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
--- On Mon, 3/7/11, Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca
wrote:
From: Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca Subject: Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability
on macintels on analogindustries.com
To: "chris clepper" cgclepper@gmail.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Monday, March 7, 2011, 10:45 PM On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, chris clepper wrote:
I get asked by people if Pd is ever coming out
of
beta.
Is that because of the version numbers ? They
always begin
with a zero.
But Gridflow goes up to 9. So just make sure to
install Gridflow with
Pd, and you should then be able to instantiate up to
nine "simple" objects
without Pd randomly crashing on you:
[import gridflow]
[metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] | [metro] <-- Warning: 10th metro object may crash
Pd
Wait, are you telling me that Pd doesn't got to 11?!? That must be fixed! But just created 10 linked metros and got no crash on Pd-extended 0.42.5 on Mac OSX 10.5.8.
Sorry, I should have put a disclaimer: complete hogwash!
I was just referring to the blog that started this thread, where the
complaint was that instantiating a simple [metro] object can crash Pd.
I don't think it is true, nor do I think that there's a
get-out-of-crash-free card for each integer above 0 in the GF numbering
system.
I made a patch once with a slider with range 0-11, but it only let you slide it up to 10, unless you click a [tgl] associated with it, to get one more. No matter what it's controlling, it's a lot of fun.
-Jonathan
.hc
You can't steal a gift. Bird gave the world his music, and if you can hear it, you can have it. - Dizzy Gillespie
chris clepper wrote:
I get asked by people if Pd is ever coming out of beta.
I think I already used the cuisine metaphor here... My Italian genes always point me to that... Along the lines of Mathieu's (?) topic in the dataflow IRC about ready-made solutions.
And of course it would have been nice if he *shared* the patch(es) which made Pd crash.
It's interesting (from a more, let's say 'social' point of view) that in these MAX vs PD, Windows VS Linux, commercial VS FLOSS discussions the former attitude is usually "hey tried this, I think it's crap/too hard for me/buggy/can't use it at the first go..." and the latter is always "care to tell us what was wrong? whatever works best for you...". Interesting.
Lorenzo.
On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 2:47 PM, Mathieu Bouchard <matju@artengine.ca mailto:matju@artengine.ca> wrote:
On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Andy Farnell wrote: A "trial" version eh? Let's see how that comparison is working out in 30 days. I've been running a trial version of pd for 8 or 9 years now. I'm waiting for it to expire. _______________________________________________________________________ | Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC _______________________________________________ Pd-list@iem.at <mailto:Pd-list@iem.at> mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
I think I already used the cuisine metaphor here... My Italian genes always point me to that... Along the lines of Mathieu's (?) topic in the dataflow IRC about ready-made solutions.
« Readymade Solutions Require Readymade Problems; For Everything Else There Is PureData.™ »
But it also applies to MAX and every other programming language. I said it in opposition to the kind of audio app (or video app) that gives you a feature set to which the problem must be fitted (or else, too bad for you).
Whenever I open any «audio app» other than Pd, all I can see is a bunch of limitations that is going to prevent me from doing what I want 30 minutes in the future. But when I say Pd here, it includes MAX.
The choice between Pd and MAX is not what I had in mind when I thought of the above slogan, and of « The diagram is the program ». In the comparison between Pd and MAX, I don't think we need slogans nearly as much as we need more features (even though Pd already offers a lot of unique tools).
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC
-
Andy Farnell -
chris clepper -
cyrille henry -
Hans-Christoph Steiner -
Jonathan Wilkes -
Lorenzo Sutton -
Mario -
Mathieu Bouchard -
Max -
Miller Puckette -
pierlu