Hi,
maybe attached archive is useful for someone else, too, though I mainly did it for myself. It includes a simple abstraction called "tunetof" which is similar to "mtof" but does a table lookup with tabread to allow alternative tunings like the just intonation, Chuck is so fond of.
As that alone would be too easy to bother with posting it here, I also included a little Python script which converts Scala files [1] to Pd table dumps, that can be read by tunetof.pd. There are almost 3000 Scala tunings available at the Scala homepage.
[1] http://www.xs4all.nl/~huygensf/scala/scl_format.html
Have fun, stay healthy.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
Hallo, Frank Barknecht hat gesagt: // Frank Barknecht wrote:
As that alone would be too easy to bother with posting it here, I also included a little Python script which converts Scala files [1] to Pd table dumps
Duh, with the latest scales.zip my converter already fails at some files. Attached is a more robust version that converts all 3329 current scales correctly.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
Hallo, Frank Barknecht hat gesagt: // Frank Barknecht wrote:
Duh, with the latest scales.zip my converter already fails at some files. Attached is a more robust version that converts all 3329 current scales correctly.
Duh++: I made another mistake by assuming, that every exotic tuning would wrap around at the first octave, which is totally wrong, there are lots of tunings whose scale restarts at another interval.
This time, tunetof.pd will also correctly deal with such scales, like the Stopper tuning, which wraps around at Duodecimo (included for testing).
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
Hi Frank,
Very useful, very cool. I've got it playing now - a microtonal music box - sweet! I haven't tried loading other Scala files yet but can't wait to do it.
Thanks for sharing, p
On Apr 10, 2006, at 10:32 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hi,
maybe attached archive is useful for someone else, too, though I mainly did it for myself. It includes a simple abstraction called "tunetof" which is similar to "mtof" but does a table lookup with tabread to allow alternative tunings like the just intonation, Chuck is so fond of.
As that alone would be too easy to bother with posting it here, I also included a little Python script which converts Scala files [1] to Pd table dumps, that can be read by tunetof.pd. There are almost 3000 Scala tunings available at the Scala homepage.
[1] http://www.xs4all.nl/~huygensf/scala/scl_format.html
Have fun, stay healthy.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__ <tunetof.tgz> _______________________________________________ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list
Hallo, Frank Barknecht hat gesagt: // Frank Barknecht wrote:
maybe attached archive is useful for someone else, too, though I mainly did it for myself. It includes a simple abstraction called "tunetof" which is similar to "mtof" but does a table lookup with tabread to allow alternative tunings like the just intonation, Chuck is so fond of.
"tunetof" now also has a place in the CVS at: /abstractions/footils/tunetof. A missing loadbang was added to fix the initialization from abstraction arguments.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
Interesting. I looked it over, I'm still not sure why note numbers are necessary. Although, if the base frequency and reference tone can be changed at will, as in Scala's .seq format, that could get pretty deep. I use a data structure with numerator and denominator fields. Toxy's mouse sensing looks up 40-some ratio elements, and assigns a potential note a numerator and denominator from an element. If I hover at 7/5 and hit T with the score up, 7/5 becomes 1/1 and its frequency is the base. From there I can modulate as far as the 32-bit floats will let me, and just hit G to return to 1/1= middle C. I have it set up for 11-limit JI, I figure if I need any higher primes I can enter them manually. But being able to modulate the whole pitch collection means I have a pretty much unlimited number of frequencies, while still being able to use a mouse.
I haven't experimented with an abstraction that would take a pitch set and map it to my elements. I don't have it as a 1:1 ratio of pixels to ratios; I take whatever ratio's height is closest to current y value. It would be nice to be able to stick Islamic, Greek, or Indian modules in. I haven't played with Scala in a long time, maybe I should again.
Here are screenshots of what I'm talking about. -Chuckk
On 4/11/06, Frank Barknecht fbar@footils.org wrote:
Hallo, Frank Barknecht hat gesagt: // Frank Barknecht wrote:
maybe attached archive is useful for someone else, too, though I mainly did it for myself. It includes a simple abstraction called "tunetof" which is similar to "mtof" but does a table lookup with tabread to allow alternative tunings like the just intonation, Chuck is so fond of.
"tunetof" now also has a place in the CVS at: /abstractions/footils/tunetof. A missing loadbang was added to fix the initialization from abstraction arguments.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
-- "It is not when truth is dirty, but when it is shallow, that the lover of knowledge is reluctant to step into its waters." -Friedrich Nietzsche, "Thus Spoke Zarathustra"
Hallo, Chuckk Hubbard hat gesagt: // Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
Interesting. I looked it over, I'm still not sure why note numbers are necessary. Although, if the base frequency and reference tone can be changed at will, as in Scala's .seq format, that could get pretty deep.
I used note numbers because basically [tunetof] is just dealing with scales, that have steps. Using note numbers makes it very easy to apply scale-oriented algorithms. And the analogy with mtof will make it easy for users without much experience in dealing with alternate tunings - like myself - to experiment using their mtof-knowledge and even the same patches.
So in general it is a very different approach from your JI sequencer.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
On 4/11/06, Frank Barknecht fbar@footils.org wrote:
Hallo, Chuckk Hubbard hat gesagt: // Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
Interesting. I looked it over, I'm still not sure why note numbers are necessary. Although, if the base frequency and reference tone can be changed at will, as in Scala's .seq format, that could get pretty deep.
I used note numbers because basically [tunetof] is just dealing with scales, that have steps. Using note numbers makes it very easy to apply scale-oriented algorithms. And the analogy with mtof will make it easy for users without much experience in dealing with alternate tunings - like myself - to experiment using their mtof-knowledge and even the same patches.
Gotcha. I was still thinking in terms of decimal note numbers, like 60.5, which wouldn't make sense with this. Any compatibility between Scala and any other software is always good.
Lots of Western-centric musicians boast that the microtonality of more primitive traditions could only have worked in single-line melody, and that Western music, with its more sophisticated tonalities, made these tunings obsolete. I believe that, with computers, the harmonic possibilities opened up by other tunings could dwarf those of 12-tET. But obviously not with keyboards.
So in general it is a very different approach from your JI sequencer.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
-- "It is not when truth is dirty, but when it is shallow, that the lover of knowledge is reluctant to step into its waters." -Friedrich Nietzsche, "Thus Spoke Zarathustra"
Hallo, Chuckk Hubbard hat gesagt: // Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
On 4/11/06, Frank Barknecht fbar@footils.org wrote:
I used note numbers because basically [tunetof] is just dealing with scales, that have steps. Using note numbers makes it very easy to apply scale-oriented algorithms. And the analogy with mtof will make it easy for users without much experience in dealing with alternate tunings - like myself - to experiment using their mtof-knowledge and even the same patches.
Gotcha. I was still thinking in terms of decimal note numbers, like 60.5, which wouldn't make sense with this.
And it's not supported by [tunetof] anyway: Only integers are accepted, because internally the lookup of the corresponding frequency is carried out with [tabread]. I was thinking of maybe using [tabread4] here at first, but I thought it didn't make sense to assume that tabread4's interpolation would be correct to "slide" from one note to another. So interpolation of intermediate frequencies is up to the user.
Lots of Western-centric musicians boast that the microtonality of more primitive traditions could only have worked in single-line melody, and that Western music, with its more sophisticated tonalities, made these tunings obsolete. I believe that, with computers, the harmonic possibilities opened up by other tunings could dwarf those of 12-tET. But obviously not with keyboards.
Though I'm not a keyboard player (I prefer woodwinds), I admit I've never put much thought into tunings myself, I just used what was available and that was [mtof]. Some things lately have changed my mind. Among these things of course were the discussions here, the other was that I finally finished F. Richard Moore's seminal book "Elements of Computer Music" which in its last chapter (or rather the appendix) deals with tunings in much detail.
Maybe others who just use what is available will now find tunetof easy enough to replace mtof with it. ;)
It also is useful to use with equal tempered traditinal tuning of course. One nice possibility is to use it as an appregiator. If the scale used internally is for example a maj7 chord with just 4 notes, then [random 4] will play only the notes from this chord in random order. Sending a "scale" with a different chord or changing the root note will then change the chord or transpose it. This is very handy sometimes and allows very compact patches. (Note to self: Make some example patches for this.)
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
... I believe that, with computers, the harmonic possibilities opened up by other tunings could dwarf those of 12-tET. But obviously not with keyboards.
See Harry Partch's Chromelodeon here: http://www.corporeal.com/instbro/inst12.ht
Martin
On 4/11/06, Martin Peach martinrp@vax2.concordia.ca wrote:
Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
... I believe that, with computers, the harmonic possibilities opened up by other tunings could dwarf those of 12-tET. But obviously not with keyboards.
See Harry Partch's Chromelodeon here: http://www.corporeal.com/instbro/inst12.ht
Martin
Not a big fan of Partch. First, he devises an intricate, deep tuning system dependent on natural harmonics. Then he creates a giant orchestra of percussion and plucked strings to realize it! Instruments with lots of inharmonic partials as part of their characteristic sounds. Of course, I owe him big time. He endured lots of misery for his theories, and he really knew his stuff. The Chromelodeon is different, but I still think it sounds hideous compared to the human voice or Partch's viola. Partch also wasn't creating so much a harmonic structure as melodic music.
The composer whose samples I linked to in another reply, Toby Twining, was a student of Ben Johnston, who was actually a student of Partch. I might myself have some lessons with Toby next semester! I almost did before, but it didn't pan out.
-Chuckk
-- "It is not when truth is dirty, but when it is shallow, that the lover of knowledge is reluctant to step into its waters." -Friedrich Nietzsche, "Thus Spoke Zarathustra"
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006, Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
Lots of Western-centric musicians boast that the microtonality of more primitive traditions could only have worked in single-line melody, and that Western music, with its more sophisticated tonalities, made these tunings obsolete. I believe that, with computers, the harmonic possibilities opened up by other tunings could dwarf those of 12-tET.
Who hears the difference?
I think that lots of people are dwarfing the possibilities of all of the above just by singing out-of-tune, daily.
_ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801 - http://artengine.ca/matju | Freelance Digital Arts Engineer, Montréal QC Canada
On 4/11/06, Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca wrote:
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006, Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
Lots of Western-centric musicians boast that the microtonality of more primitive traditions could only have worked in single-line melody, and that Western music, with its more sophisticated tonalities, made these tunings obsolete. I believe that, with computers, the harmonic possibilities opened up by other tunings could dwarf those of 12-tET.
Who hears the difference?
I think that lots of people are dwarfing the possibilities of all of the above just by singing out-of-tune, daily.
I hear the difference in Toby Twining's Requiem: http://www.justintonation.net/soundfiles.html#twining It's not so easy to hear on piano: they are designed to mask already being out of tune. I'm not just talking about slightly different tunings of the 12-tone scale.
-Chuckk
-
Chuckk Hubbard -
Frank Barknecht -
Martin Peach -
Mathieu Bouchard -
Paris Treantafeles