Hey all,
I hope I am not jumping the gun or stepping on anyone's toes. I just
wanted to open up the discussion about what people are planning on
working on during the upcoming book sprint. Currently, I am pretty
open to topics, but I was thinking that Gem/PDP/Gridflow could really
use a section. There are lots of examples for them, but they lack a
good intro to the concepts.
.hc
News is what people want to keep hidden and everything else is
publicity. - Bill Moyers
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Hey all,
I hope I am not jumping the gun or stepping on anyone's toes. I just wanted to open up the discussion about what people are planning on working on during the upcoming book sprint. Currently, I am pretty open to topics, but I was thinking that Gem/PDP/Gridflow could really use a section. There are lots of examples for them, but they lack a good intro to the concepts.
I am in for a gem sprint. marius.
.hc
News is what people want to keep hidden and everything else is publicity. - Bill Moyers
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Hi guys,
As the "facilitator" of this project, I will post a list of sprint targets quite soon.
GEM section is definitely on my list, however I do want to keep to things which are both included in PD-Extended and are cross platform. For now, this excludes PDP and Gridflow. Maybe if someone wanted to make a separate section which includes installation/configuration info (following the template in the Install chapters of the existing Pd FLOSS Manual), then a section on one of these might be relevant. But as they are both essentially Linux only, by virtue of either being uncompilable or nearly unusable on other platforms, I'd rather keep focus someplace else.
As for GEM, I'd like to see some stuff on the following (in order of priority):
- Basic VJ mixer (2 x
[gemhead]-[pix_film]-[alpha]-[colorRGB]-[pix_texture]-[rectangle] with an alpha-crossfader)(+ platform specific codec info) 2) Live camera input (same as VJ mixer but with [pix_video], with platform specific info on USB/firewire inputs--what works & what doesn't) 3) VJ effects (using the various pix objects) 4) Basic 3D (that actually does something interesting, rather than just show a sphere or a cube) 5) Basic movement tracking w/ [pix_blob] 6) GEM/video optimization/troubleshooting tips (see Troubleshooting section of existing Pd FLOSS Manual)(Chris Clepper, are you in the house?)
I have some tutorial patches which could be used as the basis for most of this, let me know if you are interested.
Full target list coming soon, I'll make sure to include this GEM section.
best, Derek
marius schebella wrote:
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Hey all,
I hope I am not jumping the gun or stepping on anyone's toes. I just wanted to open up the discussion about what people are planning on working on during the upcoming book sprint. Currently, I am pretty open to topics, but I was thinking that Gem/PDP/Gridflow could really use a section. There are lots of examples for them, but they lack a good intro to the concepts.
I am in for a gem sprint. marius.
that's where the joke is, that floss manuals cover software that should also run on windows
yes, you've always been a joker man, you know that
xiaoo, sevy
Derek Holzer wrote:
Hi guys,
As the "facilitator" of this project, I will post a list of sprint targets quite soon.
GEM section is definitely on my list, however I do want to keep to things which are both included in PD-Extended and are cross platform. For now, this excludes PDP and Gridflow. Maybe if someone wanted to make a separate section which includes installation/configuration info (following the template in the Install chapters of the existing Pd FLOSS Manual), then a section on one of these might be relevant. But as they are both essentially Linux only, by virtue of either being uncompilable or nearly unusable on other platforms, I'd rather keep focus someplace else.
As for GEM, I'd like to see some stuff on the following (in order of priority):
- Basic VJ mixer (2 x
[gemhead]-[pix_film]-[alpha]-[colorRGB]-[pix_texture]-[rectangle] with an alpha-crossfader)(+ platform specific codec info) 2) Live camera input (same as VJ mixer but with [pix_video], with platform specific info on USB/firewire inputs--what works & what doesn't) 3) VJ effects (using the various pix objects) 4) Basic 3D (that actually does something interesting, rather than just show a sphere or a cube) 5) Basic movement tracking w/ [pix_blob] 6) GEM/video optimization/troubleshooting tips (see Troubleshooting section of existing Pd FLOSS Manual)(Chris Clepper, are you in the house?)
I have some tutorial patches which could be used as the basis for most of this, let me know if you are interested.
Full target list coming soon, I'll make sure to include this GEM section.
best, Derek
marius schebella wrote:
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Hey all,
I hope I am not jumping the gun or stepping on anyone's toes. I just wanted to open up the discussion about what people are planning on working on during the upcoming book sprint. Currently, I am pretty open to topics, but I was thinking that Gem/PDP/Gridflow could really use a section. There are lots of examples for them, but they lack a good intro to the concepts.
I am in for a gem sprint. marius.
ydegoyon@gmail.com wrote:
that's where the joke is, that floss manuals cover software that should also run on windows
yes, you've always been a joker man, you know that
sorry i that seemed agressive, i just meant you're a reactionary force, cos don't document ardour, supercollider and others if they don't run on windblows ...
anyway i wouldn't read it
gute nacht!
sevy
xiaoo, sevy
Derek Holzer wrote:
Hi guys,
As the "facilitator" of this project, I will post a list of sprint targets quite soon.
GEM section is definitely on my list, however I do want to keep to things which are both included in PD-Extended and are cross platform. For now, this excludes PDP and Gridflow. Maybe if someone wanted to make a separate section which includes installation/configuration info (following the template in the Install chapters of the existing Pd FLOSS Manual), then a section on one of these might be relevant. But as they are both essentially Linux only, by virtue of either being uncompilable or nearly unusable on other platforms, I'd rather keep focus someplace else.
As for GEM, I'd like to see some stuff on the following (in order of priority):
- Basic VJ mixer (2 x
[gemhead]-[pix_film]-[alpha]-[colorRGB]-[pix_texture]-[rectangle] with an alpha-crossfader)(+ platform specific codec info) 2) Live camera input (same as VJ mixer but with [pix_video], with platform specific info on USB/firewire inputs--what works & what doesn't) 3) VJ effects (using the various pix objects) 4) Basic 3D (that actually does something interesting, rather than just show a sphere or a cube) 5) Basic movement tracking w/ [pix_blob] 6) GEM/video optimization/troubleshooting tips (see Troubleshooting section of existing Pd FLOSS Manual)(Chris Clepper, are you in the house?)
I have some tutorial patches which could be used as the basis for most of this, let me know if you are interested.
Full target list coming soon, I'll make sure to include this GEM section.
best, Derek
marius schebella wrote:
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Hey all,
I hope I am not jumping the gun or stepping on anyone's toes. I just wanted to open up the discussion about what people are planning on working on during the upcoming book sprint. Currently, I am pretty open to topics, but I was thinking that Gem/PDP/Gridflow could really use a section. There are lots of examples for them, but they lack a good intro to the concepts.
I am in for a gem sprint. marius.
I think we definitely should document PDP/PiDIP and Gridflow as well.
Do you want to participate and help out? If there aren't any PDP or
Gridflow people joining in, then I think it makes the most sense to
focus on Gem since it is the most widespread.
.hc
On Mar 27, 2009, at 12:56 AM, ydegoyon@gmail.com wrote:
that's where the joke is, that floss manuals cover software that should also run on windows
yes, you've always been a joker man, you know that
xiaoo, sevy
Derek Holzer wrote:
Hi guys,
As the "facilitator" of this project, I will post a list of sprint targets quite soon.
GEM section is definitely on my list, however I do want to keep to things which are both included in PD-Extended and are cross platform. For now, this excludes PDP and Gridflow. Maybe if someone wanted to
make a separate section which includes installation/configuration info (following the template in the Install chapters of the existing Pd
FLOSS Manual), then a section on one of these might be relevant. But as
they are both essentially Linux only, by virtue of either being
uncompilable or nearly unusable on other platforms, I'd rather keep focus
someplace else.As for GEM, I'd like to see some stuff on the following (in order of priority):
- Basic VJ mixer (2 x
[gemhead]-[pix_film]-[alpha]-[colorRGB]-[pix_texture]-[rectangle]
with an alpha-crossfader)(+ platform specific codec info) 2) Live camera input (same as VJ mixer but with [pix_video], with platform specific info on USB/firewire inputs--what works & what
doesn't) 3) VJ effects (using the various pix objects) 4) Basic 3D (that actually does something interesting, rather than
just show a sphere or a cube) 5) Basic movement tracking w/ [pix_blob] 6) GEM/video optimization/troubleshooting tips (see Troubleshooting section of existing Pd FLOSS Manual)(Chris Clepper, are you in the
house?)I have some tutorial patches which could be used as the basis for
most of this, let me know if you are interested.Full target list coming soon, I'll make sure to include this GEM
section.best, Derek
marius schebella wrote:
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Hey all,
I hope I am not jumping the gun or stepping on anyone's toes. I
just wanted to open up the discussion about what people are
planning on working on during the upcoming book sprint.
Currently, I am pretty open to topics, but I was thinking that
Gem/PDP/Gridflow could really use a section. There are lots of
examples for them, but they lack a good intro to the concepts.I am in for a gem sprint. marius.
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Access to computers should be unlimited and total. - the hacker ethic
My thoughts exactly...document what people actually use most, in a way which helps them to use it. As I said, if someone wants to go through all the trouble of making a separate install guide for PDP or Gridflow, I'd consider including it.
As it stands, however, both of these can change at any moment depending on distros and dependencies.... on top of the fact that they only run well on Linux + x86 architecture (PDP) or cannot be compiled at all except on Linux (Gridflow). For me to accept them into the FLOSS manual, the installation process must be completely and reliably documented as well. No lazy "just compile it and cry to the mailing list if it doesn't work" instructions which leave newbies lost. Free software is only really free when you don't have to be a computer programmer to get it working.
As it stands, I want to focus on accessibility first off. So cross-platform + Pd Extended is the baseline for the FLOSS Manual, as it has been from the beginning.
D.
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
I think it makes the most sense to focus on Gem since it is the most widespread.
For what its worth, PDP/PiDiP has been included in Mac OS X and GNU/
Linux Pd-extended since 0.39.3, so no compilation instructions
needed. We do still need someone to write the docs. I don't think I
know enough to write more than a paragraph. Same goes with Gridflow,
in my book.
.hc
On Mar 27, 2009, at 8:56 PM, Derek Holzer wrote:
My thoughts exactly...document what people actually use most, in a
way which helps them to use it. As I said, if someone wants to go
through all the trouble of making a separate install guide for PDP
or Gridflow, I'd consider including it.As it stands, however, both of these can change at any moment
depending on distros and dependencies.... on top of the fact that
they only run well on Linux + x86 architecture (PDP) or cannot be
compiled at all except on Linux (Gridflow). For me to accept them
into the FLOSS manual, the installation process must be completely
and reliably documented as well. No lazy "just compile it and cry to
the mailing list if it doesn't work" instructions which leave
newbies lost. Free software is only really free when you don't have
to be a computer programmer to get it working.As it stands, I want to focus on accessibility first off. So cross- platform + Pd Extended is the baseline for the FLOSS Manual, as it
has been from the beginning.D.
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
I think it makes the most sense to focus on Gem since it is the
most widespread.-- ::: derek holzer ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista ::: http://www.vimeo.com/macumbista ::: ---Oblique Strategy # 30: "Change specifics to ambiguities"
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
hey
I can document pdp/pidip installation. it contains the packages i have used the most so happy to help if you think its within the scope of the manual Derek.
It might be however, that we should focus first on the basics. One issue that might prevent this is if we get too ambitious for this first round and make the scope of the manual too broad.
so, while i'd love to see pdp/pidip included in the first full release, i think first we should bite of a chunk we know we can finish in 3 days...the rest can be included in another sprint
thoughts?
adam
On Sat, 2009-03-28 at 01:11 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
For what its worth, PDP/PiDiP has been included in Mac OS X and GNU/ Linux Pd-extended since 0.39.3, so no compilation instructions
needed. We do still need someone to write the docs. I don't think I
know enough to write more than a paragraph. Same goes with Gridflow,
in my book..hc
On Mar 27, 2009, at 8:56 PM, Derek Holzer wrote:
My thoughts exactly...document what people actually use most, in a
way which helps them to use it. As I said, if someone wants to go
through all the trouble of making a separate install guide for PDP
or Gridflow, I'd consider including it.As it stands, however, both of these can change at any moment
depending on distros and dependencies.... on top of the fact that
they only run well on Linux + x86 architecture (PDP) or cannot be
compiled at all except on Linux (Gridflow). For me to accept them
into the FLOSS manual, the installation process must be completely
and reliably documented as well. No lazy "just compile it and cry to
the mailing list if it doesn't work" instructions which leave
newbies lost. Free software is only really free when you don't have
to be a computer programmer to get it working.As it stands, I want to focus on accessibility first off. So cross- platform + Pd Extended is the baseline for the FLOSS Manual, as it
has been from the beginning.D.
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
I think it makes the most sense to focus on Gem since it is the
most widespread.-- ::: derek holzer ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista ::: http://www.vimeo.com/macumbista ::: ---Oblique Strategy # 30: "Change specifics to ambiguities"
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Hi Adam,
My thoughts:
- As HC mentioned, PDP is in Pd Extended already, although it doesn't
always run out of the box on OSX 2) Complete install instructions should include how to get it running on OSX (X11 must be installed, maybe some other things) 3) PiDiP could be more complicated, as it requires specific versions of Quicktime and perhaps some other libs, IIRC. Someone would need to check its dependencies on OSX before writing the install guide. And because this seems to change often, that person would need to stay on top of changes which would affect PiDiP's usability. I don't know if this has been taken account of in Pd-Extended, maybe HC can answer that. 4) Even if PDP is able to run on OSX, it runs very poorly in comparison to on x86 Linux. It also runs poorly on PPC Linux, dues to its code being highly optimized for the x86 architecture. This should be mentioned in the install instructions as well. 5) We'd still need someone to write some useful tutorials. I agree at need for documentation, as the help files and docs which come with PDP are some of the most cryptic I've ever seen! PiDiP docs make sense, OTOH, but some realworld application of some of this stuff would be nice.
---->side note to HC: is X11 a prerequisite for GEM on OSX Pd Extended now? I saw some people at my last workshop had some missing libs with newer Pd Extended installers...
D.
adam hyde wrote:
hey
I can document pdp/pidip installation. it contains the packages i have used the most so happy to help if you think its within the scope of the manual Derek.
It might be however, that we should focus first on the basics. One issue that might prevent this is if we get too ambitious for this first round and make the scope of the manual too broad.
so, while i'd love to see pdp/pidip included in the first full release, i think first we should bite of a chunk we know we can finish in 3 days...the rest can be included in another sprint
thoughts?
adam
On Sat, 2009-03-28 at 01:11 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
For what its worth, PDP/PiDiP has been included in Mac OS X and GNU/ Linux Pd-extended since 0.39.3, so no compilation instructions
needed. We do still need someone to write the docs. I don't think I
know enough to write more than a paragraph. Same goes with Gridflow,
in my book..hc
On Mar 27, 2009, at 8:56 PM, Derek Holzer wrote:
My thoughts exactly...document what people actually use most, in a
way which helps them to use it. As I said, if someone wants to go
through all the trouble of making a separate install guide for PDP
or Gridflow, I'd consider including it.As it stands, however, both of these can change at any moment
depending on distros and dependencies.... on top of the fact that
they only run well on Linux + x86 architecture (PDP) or cannot be
compiled at all except on Linux (Gridflow). For me to accept them
into the FLOSS manual, the installation process must be completely
and reliably documented as well. No lazy "just compile it and cry to
the mailing list if it doesn't work" instructions which leave
newbies lost. Free software is only really free when you don't have
to be a computer programmer to get it working.As it stands, I want to focus on accessibility first off. So cross- platform + Pd Extended is the baseline for the FLOSS Manual, as it
has been from the beginning.D.
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
I think it makes the most sense to focus on Gem since it is the
most widespread.-- ::: derek holzer ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista ::: http://www.vimeo.com/macumbista ::: ---Oblique Strategy # 30: "Change specifics to ambiguities"
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 6:10 AM, Derek Holzer derek@umatic.nl wrote:
---->side note to HC: is X11 a prerequisite for GEM on OSX Pd Extended now? I saw some people at my last workshop had some missing libs with newer Pd Extended installers...
Nothing in the GEM code relies on X11, but I think the extended build is using it for freetype and/or FTGL. Those can be statically built into the binary like we have done for GEM releases on OSX in the past.
On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 10:01 AM, chris clepper cgclepper@gmail.com wrote:
Nothing in the GEM code relies on X11,
That should read 'Nothing in the GEM OSX code relies on X11'. Obviously, Linux uses X11 for window and event handling.
On Mar 28, 2009, at 10:01 AM, chris clepper wrote:
On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 6:10 AM, Derek Holzer derek@umatic.nl wrote:
---->side note to HC: is X11 a prerequisite for GEM on OSX Pd
Extended now? I saw some people at my last workshop had some missing
libs with newer Pd Extended installers...Nothing in the GEM code relies on X11, but I think the extended
build is using it for freetype and/or FTGL. Those can be statically
built into the binary like we have done for GEM releases on OSX in
the past.
Gem gets linked against Apple's freetype, which is part of the X11
package, so that's where the requirement comes from. It would be
possible to make Gem use the Fink freetype. Mac OS X 10.5 now comes
with X11 installed, so this issue only applies to 10.4. There is a
decent FAQ entry on how to install X11 for people with 10.4:
http://puredata.info/docs/faq/macosx
.hc
Access to computers should be unlimited and total. - the hacker ethic
OK, then this needs to be added to the install instructions.
D.
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
On Mar 28, 2009, at 10:01 AM, chris clepper wrote:
On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 6:10 AM, Derek Holzer <derek@umatic.nl mailto:derek@umatic.nl> wrote:
---->side note to HC: is X11 a prerequisite for GEM on OSX Pd Extended now? I saw some people at my last workshop had some missing libs with newer Pd Extended installers...Nothing in the GEM code relies on X11, but I think the extended build is using it for freetype and/or FTGL. Those can be statically built into the binary like we have done for GEM releases on OSX in the past.
Gem gets linked against Apple's freetype, which is part of the X11 package, so that's where the requirement comes from. It would be possible to make Gem use the Fink freetype. Mac OS X 10.5 now comes with X11 installed, so this issue only applies to 10.4. There is a decent FAQ entry on how to install X11 for people with 10.4:
http://puredata.info/docs/faq/macosx
.hc
Access to computers should be unlimited and total. - the hacker ethic
ola,
- PiDiP could be more complicated, as it requires specific versions
of Quicktime and perhaps some other libs, IIRC.
not true, it uses libquicktime like PDP and so if you have it installed with PDP it's ok, and it uses LibQuicktime only for the camera input like Gem, so i never heard of specific version needed.
Someone would need to check its dependencies on OSX before writing the install guide. And because this seems to change often
even more surprising as the development of PiDiP is almost 0 since 2 years, i use only text for visuals , not video...
xiaoo, sevy
Thanks for clarification. I remembered different issues coming up on the list before, thus these concerns.
D.
ydegoyon@gmail.com wrote:
ola,
- PiDiP could be more complicated, as it requires specific versions
of Quicktime and perhaps some other libs, IIRC.
not true, it uses libquicktime like PDP and so if you have it installed with PDP it's ok, and it uses LibQuicktime only for the camera input like Gem, so i never heard of specific version needed.
Someone would need to check its dependencies on OSX before writing the install guide. And because this seems to change often
even more surprising as the development of PiDiP is almost 0 since 2 years, i use only text for visuals , not video...
xiaoo, sevy
ola,
to make it even clearer, 2 persons ( lluis gomez i bigorda and sergi lario ) keep developping some things for pdp/pidip, and also for gem, like the opencv bindings for pd that you might see in pd convention : http://www.hangar.org/wikis/lab/doku.php?id=start:puredata_opencv
but they are not included in pd-extended and are delivered as specific packages
xiaoo, sevy
Derek Holzer wrote:
Thanks for clarification. I remembered different issues coming up on the list before, thus these concerns.
D.
ydegoyon@gmail.com wrote:
ola,
- PiDiP could be more complicated, as it requires specific versions
of Quicktime and perhaps some other libs, IIRC.
not true, it uses libquicktime like PDP and so if you have it installed with PDP it's ok, and it uses LibQuicktime only for the camera input like Gem, so i never heard of specific version needed.
Someone would need to check its dependencies on OSX before writing the install guide. And because this seems to change often
even more surprising as the development of PiDiP is almost 0 since 2 years, i use only text for visuals , not video...
xiaoo, sevy
-
adam hyde -
chris clepper -
Derek Holzer -
Hans-Christoph Steiner -
marius schebella -
ydegoyon＠gmail.com