just checking out the teabox interface.. http://www.electrotap.com/teabox/
looks pretty awesome, i know a guy using it with MAX/MSP. are there any making the thing work with pd and/or linux. thanks
On Mon, Aug 15, 2005 at 01:15:45PM +1000, we are wrote:
just checking out the teabox interface.. http://www.electrotap.com/teabox/
looks pretty awesome, i know a guy using it with MAX/MSP. are there any making the thing work with pd and/or linux. thanks
not sure, you know http://multio.mamalala.de/ uses 12-bit DACs too? and surely offers a more dynamic set of configurations...
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hello list,
Am Montag 15 August 2005 05:42 schrieb ix@replic.net:
On Mon, Aug 15, 2005 at 01:15:45PM +1000, we are wrote:
just checking out the teabox interface.. http://www.electrotap.com/teabox/
looks pretty awesome, i know a guy using it with MAX/MSP. are there any making the thing work with pd and/or linux. thanks
not sure, you know http://multio.mamalala.de/ uses 12-bit DACs too? and surely offers a more dynamic set of configurations...
and with the iobox i designed:
- you dont need to use an audiointerface for controllers, but use the usb port think of a laptop... what would you preferrably use the audi interface for
in a live situation?
- you can have _way_more_ i/o, that is, up to 88 ad inputs for example, not
just 8. just a single userboard will give you 22 ad inputs already!
- the data can be pre-processed in the box, so you get the range you need
directly
- it costs much less then any other unit i know that offers a similar
connectivity, parts and boards would be around 150,- us-dollar, depending on where you buy them.
- there will be drop-in-replacement of the current microcontroller to a newer
one. that will have full-speed usb then, which means similar latencys than with the other interface.
- im happy to integrate what the users want into the box's firmware, as long
as they tell me what they want.
if the building of a box is too big a hurdle for you, thats no problem as well, i can do that for you.
on a general note: whats the sense behind using an audiointerface for controllers, except to block a valuable audio-port? do you really fiddle with knobs and sensors that fast? if so, can i have your hands, please? would make my soldering life much easier ;-D mind you: to use that, you would need an extra audio-interface. add that to the cost of the unit.
greetings,
chris
(now some rambling) when i see sales-speak like this:
"Too often sensor interfaces are designed to work with the aging MIDI standard
- a commmunications protocol lacks not only resolution, but also an ability
to relay meaningful information in a prompt and timely manner."
then i start to questioning what their real intentions are. i mean, come on, midi is used for many years now, in very complex compositions. and im sure that this wont be the case if midi can not handle data in a "prompt and timely manner". just don plug all your stuff on just a single midi port...... thats why we have multiport midi interface, you know .... oh, and have they heard of midi multibyte messages, like nrpn's, that surely would allow for 14 bit controllers also? imagine a chord played on a midi piano, when the above would be true ...
(rambling done)
Since we're on the topic of sensors, does anybody have some references for cheaper sensors than the commercial ones provided by Teabox and I-Cube. EUR 90 (and up and up and up) seems pretty steep for what they actually are. I'd be interested in European sources for accellerometers, pressure, bend and other "fancy" sensors if people have these resources handy.
best, d.
http://www.interface-z.com/ they're french and works with pd
Le 15 août 05, à 14:38, derek holzer a écrit :
Since we're on the topic of sensors, does anybody have some references for cheaper sensors than the commercial ones provided by Teabox and I-Cube. EUR 90 (and up and up and up) seems pretty steep for what they actually are. I'd be interested in European sources for accellerometers, pressure, bend and other "fancy" sensors if people have these resources handy.
best, d.
-- derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ---Oblique Strategy # 44: "Discard an axiom"
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Hallo, hard off hat gesagt: // hard off wrote:
they look great.
any chance of some english info?
Maybe Babelfish'ed: http://tinyurl.com/ddab3 ? It's what I normally use for french websites, as I don't speak french myself. And it's funny.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__
_ __latest track: "plak" @ http://footils.org/cms/show/44
nico bats a écrit :
http://www.interface-z.com/ they're french and works with pd
and they are on holiday until september. don't expect any answer before.
cyrille
Le 15 août 05, à 14:38, derek holzer a écrit :
Since we're on the topic of sensors, does anybody have some references for cheaper sensors than the commercial ones provided by Teabox and I-Cube. EUR 90 (and up and up and up) seems pretty steep for what they actually are. I'd be interested in European sources for accellerometers, pressure, bend and other "fancy" sensors if people have these resources handy.
best, d.
-- derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ---Oblique Strategy # 44: "Discard an axiom"
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hi derek,
Am Montag 15 August 2005 14:38 schrieb derek holzer:
Since we're on the topic of sensors, does anybody have some references for cheaper sensors than the commercial ones provided by Teabox and I-Cube. EUR 90 (and up and up and up) seems pretty steep for what they actually are. I'd be interested in European sources for accellerometers, pressure, bend and other "fancy" sensors if people have these resources handy.
yes, me. ;-)
tell me what you want, and i will tell you what it will cost. best would be if there are more than one person interrested in a given type of sensor, because ordering the parts is what costs also. imagine, 18$ shipping for a 2$ chip .....
pressure sensors (for air pressure) are about 20 $, they can directly connect to such a interface. (see freescale.com, they also offer samples)
acceleration/tilt sensor, three axes, is about 10 $, with some extra circuitry to interface it will add to 15-20$ (again freescale, and again samples are available)
bend sensors are also about 10 $, they just require an extra resistor (about 8 cent) to be used same for force sensors (where you apply pressure with a finger or such) are about 10-15$, depending on size.
piezo sensors are between 2,50 $ and 7,50 $, again some circuitry is needed, so it will be around 10-15$
light sensor is an inexpensive ldr (photoresistor) + resistor, 2$
(see http://www.imagesco.com/catalog/sensors/index.html for the last three)
oh, not to mention that simple pot's and faders are as low as 50 cent, if you grab them from a surplus, high quality stuff is around 5 dollars each ....
add to all that some wire and plugs as you need, and youre done.
again, tell what you want exactly, im sure we can work something out....
best, d.
greetings,
chris
hi again,
to get an overview what kind of sensors exist, you may want to look at the digikey pages for sensors:
http://dkc1.digikey.com/DE/DE/PDF/DE051/P6.html (in german)
http://dkc1.digikey.com/US/PDF/T052/P6.html (in english)
if you see something of interrest, drop me a note and i will see how it should be interfaced...
greetings,
chris
Speaking of sensors and PD and microcontrollers...
Anyone around here have experience with the Atmel AVR? I've been using a PIC 18F, but have recently discovered that the AVR is supported by gcc, and am eager to leave assembler behind as much as possible. I'd be interested in anyone's general impressions, as well as experiences with interfacing to PD/other music languages. How is the AVR better/worse than PIC?
Thanks, Ian
Christian Klippel wrote:
hi again,
to get an overview what kind of sensors exist, you may want to look at the digikey pages for sensors:
http://dkc1.digikey.com/DE/DE/PDF/DE051/P6.html (in german)
http://dkc1.digikey.com/US/PDF/T052/P6.html (in english)
if you see something of interrest, drop me a note and i will see how it should be interfaced...
greetings,
chris
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hello ian,
Am Montag 15 August 2005 16:30 schrieb Ian Smith-Heisters:
Speaking of sensors and PD and microcontrollers...
Anyone around here have experience with the Atmel AVR? I've been using a PIC 18F, but have recently discovered that the AVR is supported by gcc, and am eager to leave assembler behind as much as possible. I'd be interested in anyone's general impressions, as well as experiences with interfacing to PD/other music languages. How is the AVR better/worse than PIC?
cant say if they are better or worse than the pic's, but as for the 18f series, there is upcomming support in sdcc: http://sdcc.sourceforge.net/
so far i have been able to compile some test stuff of my own, and it works nicely. since im going to use the 18f4550 (with full speed usb interface), i can say that this particular chip is supported in sdcc. from there, it shouldnt be hard to create code for the other 18f's as well.
Thanks, Ian
greets,
chris
Anyone around here have experience with the Atmel AVR? I've been using a PIC 18F, but have recently discovered that the AVR is supported by gcc, and am eager to leave assembler behind as much as possible. I'd be interested in anyone's general impressions, as well as experiences with interfacing to PD/other music languages. How is the AVR better/worse than PIC?
-The people at Stanford's CCRMA have been very busy teaching others: http://ccrma.stanford.edu/courses/250a-fall-2002/
This particular page contains links to this subject a.o...
AvS
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .....................................................................
` |Schreck Ensemble . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . +
` |# -laboratory for live electro-acoustic music- # |
| http://www.schreck.nl/ |
| http://www.xs4all.nl/~schreck/ |
` *===========================================================++
` |Compositions http://www.xs4all.nl/~schreck/html/compo.html |
` |Samples http://www.xs4all.nl/~schreck/html/samp.html |
` |Patches http://www.xs4all.nl/~schreck/html/pat.html |
` |Videos http://www.xs4all.nl/~schreck/html/video.html |
` |Scores http://www.xs4all.nl/~schreck/html/scores.html |
*===========================================================++
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .....................................................................
Hi Ian,
The CCRMA pages are the best place to start. They use semi-custom boards though, and I ended up buying a board from SparkFun instead. It put me back $50 including the dongle (to program it from a printer port).
However, I haven't yet taken the time to learn how to program it from gcc; I just used the compiler and download programs the SparkFun site pointed to (on Windows). It only took a day or so to get runnning.
I never found out if the open source downloader is compatible with the SparkFun dongle, or if gcc is compatible with the SparkFun downloader, or whatnot.
cheers Miller
On Mon, Aug 15, 2005 at 10:30:45AM -0400, Ian Smith-Heisters wrote:
Speaking of sensors and PD and microcontrollers...
Anyone around here have experience with the Atmel AVR? I've been using a PIC 18F, but have recently discovered that the AVR is supported by gcc, and am eager to leave assembler behind as much as possible. I'd be interested in anyone's general impressions, as well as experiences with interfacing to PD/other music languages. How is the AVR better/worse than PIC?
Thanks, Ian
Christian Klippel wrote:
hi again,
to get an overview what kind of sensors exist, you may want to look at the digikey pages for sensors:
http://dkc1.digikey.com/DE/DE/PDF/DE051/P6.html (in german)
http://dkc1.digikey.com/US/PDF/T052/P6.html (in english)
if you see something of interrest, drop me a note and i will see how it should be interfaced...
greetings,
chris
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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hi again and sorry for the flood,
on a sidenote, which may be interresting for some people:
the piezo films, like those from imagesco, can also be used as microphones. stick it to the body of a drum, for example. or accoustic guitar, violin, etc. no more carrying around microphones and stands ...
greetings,
chris
hi chris, this all sounds really interesting and i have looked into your device a bit. i'd be interested in geting something like this but i'm a little confused as to its application. lots of i/o's but how does one control it. what sort of things are possible to connect to it for control use, sensors etc(can i see some and how they work). i saw some of the sensors available on the teabox website and they look very interesting, would these kinds of thing hook up to your I/O box if so how? i am particularly interested in the gravity sensor.
also... what sort of things are people doing with it. the mailing list not as jammed as the pd-list ;)
i'm pretty new to the electronics side of things so the simplicity of connectivity is kinda important to me.
regards
t
On 8/15/05, Christian Klippel ck@mamalala.de wrote:
hello list,
Am Montag 15 August 2005 05:42 schrieb ix@replic.net:
On Mon, Aug 15, 2005 at 01:15:45PM +1000, we are wrote:
just checking out the teabox interface.. http://www.electrotap.com/teabox/
looks pretty awesome, i know a guy using it with MAX/MSP. are there any making the thing work with pd and/or linux. thanks
not sure, you know http://multio.mamalala.de/ uses 12-bit DACs too? and surely offers a more dynamic set of configurations...
and with the iobox i designed:
- you dont need to use an audiointerface for controllers, but use the usb port think of a laptop... what would you preferrably use the audi interface for
in a live situation?
- you can have _way_more_ i/o, that is, up to 88 ad inputs for example, not
just 8. just a single userboard will give you 22 ad inputs already!
- the data can be pre-processed in the box, so you get the range you need
directly
- it costs much less then any other unit i know that offers a similar
connectivity, parts and boards would be around 150,- us-dollar, depending on where you buy them.
- there will be drop-in-replacement of the current microcontroller to a newer
one. that will have full-speed usb then, which means similar latencys than with the other interface.
- im happy to integrate what the users want into the box's firmware, as long
as they tell me what they want.
if the building of a box is too big a hurdle for you, thats no problem as well, i can do that for you.
on a general note: whats the sense behind using an audiointerface for controllers, except to block a valuable audio-port? do you really fiddle with knobs and sensors that fast? if so, can i have your hands, please? would make my soldering life much easier ;-D mind you: to use that, you would need an extra audio-interface. add that to the cost of the unit.
greetings,
chris
(now some rambling) when i see sales-speak like this:
"Too often sensor interfaces are designed to work with the aging MIDI standard
- a commmunications protocol lacks not only resolution, but also an ability
to relay meaningful information in a prompt and timely manner."
then i start to questioning what their real intentions are. i mean, come on, midi is used for many years now, in very complex compositions. and im sure that this wont be the case if midi can not handle data in a "prompt and timely manner". just don plug all your stuff on just a single midi port...... thats why we have multiport midi interface, you know .... oh, and have they heard of midi multibyte messages, like nrpn's, that surely would allow for 14 bit controllers also? imagine a chord played on a midi piano, when the above would be true ...
(rambling done)
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
hello all interrested,
first off, you _dont_ need to solder a unit yourself, see below...
Am Dienstag 16 August 2005 02:23 schrieb we are:
hi chris, this all sounds really interesting and i have looked into your device a bit. i'd be interested in geting something like this but i'm a little confused as to its application. lots of i/o's but how does one control it. what sort of things are possible to connect to it for
its "controlled" by the usb bus, using the hid protocol, for example, if you mean this. for that you can use hans-christoph steiner's hid and linuxevent objects, for example.
there will be "native" pd objects for the box as well, wich should wor o linux, os-x and windows..... not yet done, but also not that hard to do...
control use, sensors etc(can i see some and how they work). i saw some of the sensors available on the teabox website and they look very interesting, would these kinds of thing hook up to your I/O box if so how? i am particularly interested in the gravity sensor.
exactly. you can connect those sensors, and those for the icube, if you want to spend the money on them. all that is needed is some kind of adapter, since i use a slightly different connector type. making such an "adapter" for, lets say, 11 ad inputs would be around 2$ in material. no electronics required for that, it just converts the connectors, nothing else.
basically, you can connect anything that generates a voltage between 0..+5v to the analogue inputs, anything that acts as a switch to the digital inputs, led's (and with some driver) relays, etc, and on the analogue output you can hook up things like stage dimmers, your old analogue synth, etc.... (with some buffers/amplifiers as to bring the signal to a level that the "receiver" needs)
a cheaper way is to use self-made sensors, whereas "self-made" in most cases mean to just solder a wire to the sensor.... others may require some extra circuitry.
actually i have to work on another project, so i still havent uploaded schematics for sensors.
also... what sort of things are people doing with it. the mailing list not as jammed as the pd-list ;)
since the whole project is quite new, not many people have a unit right now. to be exact, there are 4 ready units (including two prototypes) that i gave away, one that will be built by the owner himself, and then there are solder-parties happening at artengine, where they will build units ..... oh, and of course i have one myself. but im mainly a developer, not that much of a user right now ;-)
actually one is using the box to interface to a theremin, and i am about to build another one together with some sensory to create some kind of surround-sound controller.
maybe someone of the actual users may speak up here about that.
i'm pretty new to the electronics side of things so the simplicity of connectivity is kinda important to me.
if you have problems building a unit, no problem, i can do that for you. no need to solder it yourself. also, if you need sensors and actuators, just say what you need, i will do them.
all that is needed is to send me the parts (or the money for them) plus the cost for shipping it back to you. some extra for my labour is welcome, that would go into the development of the project. after that, you will get a ready-to-use unit and dont have to worry about parts, soldering and stuff.
the costs for the parts is around 150,- euro for a box consisting of the mainboard plus one userboard (22 ad input, 16 digi input, 16 digi out and 16 analogue out, two midi out (not yet used by the firmware), serial interface and user interface (both also not used right now)). add to that the price of the pcb's (around 30 euro) and the cost for shipping back (depends on where you are and how you want it delivered, starting from ~10 euro inside germany, up to 60 euro for international shipment by air, or anything in between)
if that is what you want, contact me directly and i will give directions on how to do so.
of course i could sit down and create sensors "out of the blue", but i would prefer to actually work on what people really need.
so, tell me what you want, i tell you what it will cost in parts, and put a circuit (if any) for that on my site. there will be an extra section for sensors and actuators soon.
yes, that means anyone here please speak up what you like to have! if i dont know what is needed, i can only create stuff that i think might be usefull. and there is a great chance that it would not be what you actually need.....
regards
t
greetings,
chris
It happened again (and likely will happen in the future if the [reply to] isn't changed on the list) I replied just to Christian and got an answer. I wanted both to read on the list:
Christian Klippel schrieb:
on a general note: whats the sense behind using an audiointerface for controllers, except to block a valuable audio-port? do you really fiddle with knobs and sensors that fast? if so, can i have your hands, please? would make my soldering life much easier ;-D mind you: to use that, you would need an extra audio-interface. add that to the cost of the unit.
The teabox is sending all of its values thru spdif. It does make a lot of sense, if it happens that you do have an audiointerface with spdif already, not using it for audio on stage because all audio is analog there. Its delivering that as a stream, locked to the audio rate. Which makes it easy to lock your controls to audio... With having experienced all kinds of problems with interacting several USB-Midi, Audio-Midi interface combinations, I think its quite an appealing idea having only one firewire port delivering all the data within the same protocol.
Of course its pricey...
I guess Timothy would be happy to help out creating Pd objects if he didn't do it already...
Stefan
-
Arie van Schutterhoef -
Christian Klippel -
cyrille henry -
derek holzer -
Frank Barknecht -
hard off -
Ian Smith-Heisters -
ix＠replic.net -
Miller Puckette -
nico bats -
Stefan Tiedje -
we are