Konichiwa,
Windows in itself is very crappy, it's not really about multimedia, almost everything isn't good on this platform, maintaining a list of crappy things on windows would just be a waste of time.
Just stop removing fresh air from windows users when they can find in it applications like PureData, when they are available on this crappy platform.
Also the little cd isn't able to handle any computer hardware, without a little bit of knowledge about what is X server for example, Or simply without the matching hardware.
(please don't read this serioulsy)
This even sound very elitistic, the windows users would just use the great cd that has been compiled by the real people who know things, and just keep windows for playing their games, or to run the great music softwares they bought because on linux there are no real solution that is handling mainstream music composition without knowledge about computers.
Sorry to put those misplaced arguments, but sometimes I'm wondering about solutions instead of closing doors.
The windows version is probably the most downloaded because users aren't satisfied, and are waiting for the big changes.
----- "Bernardo Barros" bernardobarros2@gmail.com a écrit :
BTW SuperCollider did not released the 3.4 verion for Windows. Widows is just crappy for audio. That means more bugs and more issues to fix. more work for developers etc. The situation is that anyone can put a puredyne live-cd and work with pd/supercollider/whatever on any computer on earth.
2010/9/17 András Murányi muranyia@gmail.com:
Maybe i'm short of rationality, (and i may sound weird, please don't misunderstand) but for me it's like a race issue... we shall not discriminate windows users, because most of them were "born into"
windows.
It's not like you buy your first computer and the vendor asks you
"which OS
please?", and you have a 360 degree view of them you if you are cool
you
choose linux, and if you are a jerk you choose windows. Be more
tolerant,
and of course be happy that you are already "on the right side", but
try to
help those "on the dark side" rather than abandoning them. Just 2 cents.
Andras
On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 3:03 PM, Bernardo Barros
wrote:
Just stop losing energy with Windows. Better concentrate our
limited
resources.... Linux is better for audio anyway, and it's so easy to
use/install/try
these days.
2010/9/16 ydegoyon@gmail.com ydegoyon@gmail.com:
ola,
> The Windows package is still the most downloaded.
so what? that's where the big illusion stands ( having more
customers? )
do you expect any of these to be great creators???
we'll see hey
sevy
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
-- Muranyi Andras
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Shut UP! Everyone.
We all know that a large proportion of the computers in the world run Windows. Pure Data is not elitist, apart from the French pronunciation of PD which was an
anti-elitist statement in the first instance.
We are not in the business of saying who can and who cannot use this software, otherwise it would just be another Max/MSP and we'd have to email our DNA to IRCAM or Cycling74 in order to log onto our computers every time. (I was born in
'74 - I resent their use of my birth-year, but I do not try to patent it).
This Ideological discussion is dead, and it has been dead for as long as I can remember. PD is BSD for Miller because of his ironic involvement with MSP, and GNU for everyone else. Don't clog the list with ideology. We are not a Tea Party.
PS the Pope is in the UK, and still talking about the Nazis. He is a 20th century relic. Do not become that. Use flexibly your status, and we might just have a point!
Get over it, and love or hat each other openly. Metastudio 4 for Pure Data - coming soon!!
----- Original Message ---- From: patko colet.patrice@free.fr To: Bernardo Barros bernardobarros2@gmail.com Cc: pd-list pd-list@iem.at Sent: Fri, 17 September, 2010 15:40:10 Subject: Re: [PD] Pd-extended 0.42.5 release candidate 6 released!
Konichiwa,
Windows in itself is very crappy, it's not really about multimedia, almost everything isn't good on this platform, maintaining a list of crappy things on windows would just be a waste of time.
Just stop removing fresh air from windows users when they can find in it applications like PureData, when they are available on this crappy platform.
Also the little cd isn't able to handle any computer hardware, without a little bit of knowledge about what is X server for example, Or simply without the matching hardware.
(please don't read this serioulsy)
This even sound very elitistic, the windows users would just use the great cd that has been compiled by the real people who know things, and just keep windows for playing their games, or to run the great music softwares they bought because on linux there are no real solution that is handling mainstream music composition without knowledge about computers.
Sorry to put those misplaced arguments, but sometimes I'm wondering about solutions instead of closing doors.
The windows version is probably the most downloaded because users aren't satisfied, and are waiting for the big changes.
----- "Bernardo Barros" bernardobarros2@gmail.com a écrit :
BTW SuperCollider did not released the 3.4 verion for Windows. Widows is just crappy for audio. That means more bugs and more issues to fix. more work for developers etc. The situation is that anyone can put a puredyne live-cd and work with pd/supercollider/whatever on any computer on earth.
2010/9/17 András Murányi muranyia@gmail.com:
Maybe i'm short of rationality, (and i may sound weird, please don't misunderstand) but for me it's like a race issue... we shall not discriminate windows users, because most of them were "born into"
windows.
It's not like you buy your first computer and the vendor asks you
"which OS
please?", and you have a 360 degree view of them you if you are cool
you
choose linux, and if you are a jerk you choose windows. Be more
tolerant,
and of course be happy that you are already "on the right side", but
try to
help those "on the dark side" rather than abandoning them. Just 2 cents.
Andras
On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 3:03 PM, Bernardo Barros
wrote:
Just stop losing energy with Windows. Better concentrate our
limited
resources.... Linux is better for audio anyway, and it's so easy to
use/install/try
these days.
2010/9/16 ydegoyon@gmail.com ydegoyon@gmail.com:
ola,
> The Windows package is still the most downloaded.
so what? that's where the big illusion stands ( having more
customers? )
do you expect any of these to be great creators???
we'll see hey
sevy
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
-- Muranyi Andras
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Ed Kelly wrote:
Shut UP! Everyone.
We all know that a large proportion of the computers in the world run Windows.
well, you can bow to your master then, you don't need the Pope for that...
all free-market people say ideology is dead, i'd better not notice the similitude
ciao, sevy
On Fri, 17 Sep 2010, Ed Kelly wrote:
This Ideological discussion is dead, and it has been dead for as long as I can remember. PD is BSD for Miller because of his ironic involvement with MSP, and GNU for everyone else. Don't clog the list with ideology.
Pd-vanilla is still under BSD license for everybody. This choice wasn't caused by the upcoming MSP. There's no irony in the creation of MSP.
When you say what you are saying now, what's your ideology ?
| Mathieu Bouchard ------------------------------ Villeray, Montréal, QC
On Sep 17, 2010, at 12:00 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
On Fri, 17 Sep 2010, Ed Kelly wrote:
This Ideological discussion is dead, and it has been dead for as
long as I can remember. PD is BSD for Miller because of his ironic
involvement with MSP, and GNU for everyone else. Don't clog the
list with ideology.Pd-vanilla is still under BSD license for everybody. This choice
wasn't caused by the upcoming MSP. There's no irony in the creation
of MSP.When you say what you are saying now, what's your ideology ?
How about changing the subject line on this one? I just did above,
this is far from about a Pd-extended 0.42.5 release.
.hc
"[W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are
deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from
scarcity." -John Gilmore
Er...Yeah. I'm sobering up now! Metastudio 4 for Pure Data - coming soon!!
----- Original Message ---- From: Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@at.or.at To: Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca Cc: Ed Kelly morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk; PD List pd-list@iem.at Sent: Fri, 17 September, 2010 17:03:19 Subject: Windows and Licenses WAS: Pd-extended 0.42.5 release candidate 6 released!
On Sep 17, 2010, at 12:00 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
On Fri, 17 Sep 2010, Ed Kelly wrote:
This Ideological discussion is dead, and it has been dead for as long as I can remember. PD is BSD for Miller because of his ironic involvement with MSP, and GNU for everyone else. Don't clog the list with ideology.
Pd-vanilla is still under BSD license for everybody. This choice wasn't caused by the upcoming MSP. There's no irony in the creation of MSP.
When you say what you are saying now, what's your ideology ?
How about changing the subject line on this one? I just did above, this is far from about a Pd-extended 0.42.5 release.
.hc
"[W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are
deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from scarcity."
-John Gilmore
ola,
This even sound very elitistic, the windows users would just use the great cd that has been compiled by the real people who know things, and just keep windows for playing their games
what's elististic here, to want people rather to switch to linux?
and when they use windows, don't they use a magic cd made by people that know things ( and make them pay for it? )
i never and will never get that argument that encouraging people to use linux is elitistic, it just doesn't hold.
saludos, sevy
The excuse USED to be how friendly and EASY windows/was to use. Now it seems not so. I use pure data several courses and the students who are tech(y) and want to use cool linux stuff gravitate there. Usually 1 per semester. The rest have windows7 from the computer they had to get or they have a 3,000$ MAC they use to check email.
-----Original Message----- From: pd-list-bounces@iem.at [mailto:pd-list-bounces@iem.at] On Behalf Of patko Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 10:40 AM To: Bernardo Barros Cc: pd-list Subject: Re: [PD] Pd-extended 0.42.5 release candidate 6 released!
Konichiwa,
Windows in itself is very crappy, it's not really about multimedia, almost everything isn't good on this platform, maintaining a list of crappy things on windows would just be a waste of time.
Just stop removing fresh air from windows users when they can find in it applications like PureData, when they are available on this crappy platform.
Also the little cd isn't able to handle any computer hardware, without a little bit of knowledge about what is X server for example, Or simply without the matching hardware.
(please don't read this serioulsy)
This even sound very elitistic, the windows users would just use the great cd that has been compiled by the real people who know things, and just keep windows for playing their games, or to run the great music softwares they bought because on linux there are no real solution that is handling mainstream music composition without knowledge about computers.
Sorry to put those misplaced arguments, but sometimes I'm wondering about solutions instead of closing doors.
The windows version is probably the most downloaded because users aren't satisfied, and are waiting for the big changes.
----- "Bernardo Barros" bernardobarros2@gmail.com a écrit :
BTW SuperCollider did not released the 3.4 verion for Windows. Widows is just crappy for audio. That means more bugs and more issues to fix. more work for developers etc. The situation is that anyone can put a puredyne live-cd and work with pd/supercollider/whatever on any computer on earth.
2010/9/17 András Murányi muranyia@gmail.com:
Maybe i'm short of rationality, (and i may sound weird, please don't misunderstand) but for me it's like a race issue... we shall not discriminate windows users, because most of them were "born into"
windows.
It's not like you buy your first computer and the vendor asks you
"which OS
please?", and you have a 360 degree view of them you if you are cool
you
choose linux, and if you are a jerk you choose windows. Be more
tolerant,
and of course be happy that you are already "on the right side", but
try to
help those "on the dark side" rather than abandoning them. Just 2 cents.
Andras
On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 3:03 PM, Bernardo Barros
wrote:
Just stop losing energy with Windows. Better concentrate our
limited
resources.... Linux is better for audio anyway, and it's so easy to
use/install/try
these days.
2010/9/16 ydegoyon@gmail.com ydegoyon@gmail.com:
ola,
> The Windows package is still the most downloaded.
so what? that's where the big illusion stands ( having more
customers? )
do you expect any of these to be great creators???
we'll see hey
sevy
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
-- Muranyi Andras
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
On Fri, 17 Sep 2010, patko wrote:
(please don't read this serioulsy)
Hahaha ! Hey, I have one :
Q: how many Windows users does it take to screw a light bulb ?
A: None : Windows can very well screw anything on its own !
(intraduisible)
| Mathieu Bouchard ------------------------------ Villeray, Montréal, QC
Windows7_Error: 001 Windows 7 loaded - Warning your computer is now in danger
2010/9/17 Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca:
On Fri, 17 Sep 2010, patko wrote:
(please don't read this serioulsy)
Hahaha ! Hey, I have one :
Q: how many Windows users does it take to screw a light bulb ?
A: None : Windows can very well screw anything on its own !
(intraduisible)
_______________________________________________________________________ | Mathieu Bouchard ------------------------------ Villeray, Montréal, QC
Can we move the Windows bashing to another list? I'm sure there are
much better venues. I'd much prefer it if we were friendly to Pd/
Windows users rather than try to make them feel stupid.
.hc
On Sep 17, 2010, at 2:33 PM, Bernardo Barros wrote:
Windows7_Error: 001 Windows 7 loaded - Warning your computer is now
in danger2010/9/17 Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca:
On Fri, 17 Sep 2010, patko wrote:
(please don't read this serioulsy)
Hahaha ! Hey, I have one :
Q: how many Windows users does it take to screw a light bulb ?
A: None : Windows can very well screw anything on its own !
(intraduisible)
| Mathieu Bouchard ------------------------------ Villeray,
Montréal, QC
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
"It is convenient to imagine a power beyond us because that means we
don't have to examine our own lives.", from "The Idols of
Environmentalism", by Curtis White
On Fri, 17 Sep 2010, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Can we move the Windows bashing to another list? I'm sure there are much better venues. I'd much prefer it if we were friendly to Pd/Windows users rather than try to make them feel stupid.
Hey, I'm not bashing Windows users, I'm only bashing Windows.
| Mathieu Bouchard ------------------------------ Villeray, Montréal, QC
Hi, I' m not a PD advanced user but here is my story: I think the dilemma is "Do we need more users for PD (and make it work perfectly in Windows too) or we need to aim the PD development for Linux/ Mac users (and don't waste our "limited resources")?"
*Well , I have seen on youtube etc people using windows and they are experts of PureData* but how many are they really? One of the reasons I chose to run GNU-Linux on my previous setup (besides the xp partition) are things you can have in it. And yes, PD was one of my major reasons! I unfortunately had then to buy a Mac because of the support of audio applications generally.
Ok , most of people using a computer have Windows on their setup and in countries like Greece ... you have to even use it in your university. BUT: Do really people care about programs like PD or the ideology/democratic openess behind GNU-Linux when they use windows? Most of us had the first choice for our system of windows and we MOVED when we saw what we can and we cannot do in it.
So, my opinion is to just be more consentrated on Mac/GNU-Linux support. There are not too many people who will really have the interest to learn Pd in depth and then browsing with IE7 their Facebook accounts.
I honestly don't want to make Pd/Win users feel stupid.
Cheers!
Ps> Let's define Pd: *"Pure Data* is a visual programming language (...) for the creation of interactive computer music and multimedia works..." STOP!!! Isn't that "elitistic" enough?
On 17 September 2010 21:42, Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@at.or.at wrote:
Can we move the Windows bashing to another list? I'm sure there are much better venues. I'd much prefer it if we were friendly to Pd/Windows users rather than try to make them feel stupid.
.hc
On Sep 17, 2010, at 2:33 PM, Bernardo Barros wrote:
Windows7_Error: 001 Windows 7 loaded - Warning your computer is now in
danger
2010/9/17 Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca:
On Fri, 17 Sep 2010, patko wrote:
(please don't read this serioulsy)
Hahaha ! Hey, I have one :
Q: how many Windows users does it take to screw a light bulb ?
A: None : Windows can very well screw anything on its own !
(intraduisible)
| Mathieu Bouchard ------------------------------ Villeray, Montréal, QC
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
"It is convenient to imagine a power beyond us because that means we don't have to examine our own lives.", from "The Idols of Environmentalism", by Curtis White
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Hi, I' m not a PD advanced user but here is my story: I think the dilemma is "Do we need more users for PD (and make it work perfectly in Windows too) or we need to aim the PD development for Linux/ Mac users (and don't waste our "limited resources")?"
*Well , I have seen on youtube etc people using windows and they are
experts of PureData* but how many are they really? One of the reasons I chose to run GNU-Linux on my previous setup (besides the xp partition) are things you can have in it. And yes, PD was one of
my major reasons! I unfortunately had then to buy a Mac because of the
support of audio applications generally.Ok , most of people using a computer have Windows on their setup and in countries like Greece ... you have to even use it in your university. BUT: Do really people care about programs like PD or the
ideology/democratic openess behind GNU-Linux when they use windows? Most of us had the first choice for our system of windows and we MOVED when we saw what we can
and we cannot do in it.So, my opinion is to just be more consentrated on Mac/GNU-Linux support. There are not too many people who will really have the interest to learn
Pd in depth and then browsing with IE7 their Facebook accounts.I honestly don't want to make Pd/Win users feel stupid.
No, but you just said something like "pd is too valuable for windows,
these guys can't appreciate the beauty of it, and they just want to be fed
whatever the big bo$$ puts in their mouths", and advocate to stop
maintaining Pd for windows. And curiously, at the same time you said
GNU-Linux is so great, you moved out of it to Mac - where you have to pay
double the amount for the hardware, and the manufacturer even goes to the
trouble of making sure every laptop model has a different electricity
cable, so that you have to spend more money you case you loose it. And
you're worried about people not following ideology?
I'm a windows user, I don't know if I'm an "advanced pd user" (or what
that is), but I've been using pd only for several years, have done my
contributions to pd-ext (extra/jmmmp and donations in $), have patches for
people to download if they want to, taken and given Pd workshops, was
present in the Floss session, have worked on documentation, and partly
organise the pd berlin users meeting. So, I don't appreciate when people
judge windows users as idiots which don't know better, because I am one.
At least I don't call mac users a bunch of preformatted hipsters who stand
for hours in line to be the first to buy whatever crap Jobs launches on
the market.
By the way, I don't use IE7, I use Opera for 10 years now (which I
configured to acess my accounts and mails from both windows and ubuntu). I
have a facebook account, which I use to see how other people are doing -
including some of the most advanced pd users present on this list, they
post more on it than I do.
If you want to advocate segregation go ahead, but be honest about it.
After all you use unix, you have the moral advantage (or you like to say
you do).
João Pais
There is nothing wrong with using PD on Windows.
There is nothing wrong implicitly with Windows. I should know, I use Windows for certain things, and I use Linux for other things.
I don't think there is a prejudice in the list. I'm quite happy to answer questions about Windows versions etc - we all are.
Pure Data is great in every platform. The reasons I use the Linux are my reasons, and if you need it you will discover it, but that does not diminish you as a PD user.
The list has become very heated tonight. Perhaps some of this is my fault, in which case I apologise. I hope that every user of PD reaches a point of satisfaction with his or her work. I am certainly seeking this. We all surprise each other. Long may we continue to do so.
Goodnight, Ed Kelly Metastudio 4 for Pure Data - coming soon!!
----- Original Message ---- From: João Pais jmmmpais@googlemail.com To: George Ker geokeratz@gmail.com Cc: pd-list pd-list@iem.at Sent: Fri, 17 September, 2010 23:30:53 Subject: [PD] "I'm on unix, I'm much better than windows users!" (was Pd-extended 0.42.5 release candidate 6 released!)
Hi, I' m not a PD advanced user but here is my story: I think the dilemma is "Do we need more users for PD (and make it work perfectly in Windows too) or we need to aim the PD development for Linux/ Mac users (and don't waste our "limited resources")?"
*Well , I have seen on youtube etc people using windows and they are experts of PureData* but how many are they really? One of the reasons I chose to run GNU-Linux on my previous setup (besides the xp partition) are things you can have in it. And yes, PD was one of my major reasons! I unfortunately had then to buy a Mac because of the support of audio applications generally.
Ok , most of people using a computer have Windows on their setup and in countries like Greece ... you have to even use it in your university. BUT: Do really people care about programs like PD or the ideology/democratic openess behind GNU-Linux when they use windows? Most of us had the first choice for our system of windows and we MOVED when we saw what we can and we cannot do in it.
So, my opinion is to just be more consentrated on Mac/GNU-Linux support. There are not too many people who will really have the interest to learn Pd in depth and then browsing with IE7 their Facebook accounts.
I honestly don't want to make Pd/Win users feel stupid.
No, but you just said something like "pd is too valuable for windows, these guys can't appreciate the beauty of it, and they just want to be fed whatever the big bo$$ puts in their mouths", and advocate to stop maintaining Pd for windows. And curiously, at the same time you said GNU-Linux is so great, you moved out of it to Mac - where you have to pay double the amount for the hardware, and the manufacturer even goes to the trouble of making sure every laptop model has a different electricity cable, so that you have to spend more money you case you loose it. And you're worried about people not following ideology?
I'm a windows user, I don't know if I'm an "advanced pd user" (or what that is), but I've been using pd only for several years, have done my contributions to pd-ext (extra/jmmmp and donations in $), have patches for people to download if they want to, taken and given Pd workshops, was present in the Floss session, have worked on documentation, and partly organise the pd berlin users meeting. So, I don't appreciate when people judge windows users as idiots which don't know better, because I am one. At least I don't call mac users a bunch of preformatted hipsters who stand for hours in line to be the first to buy whatever crap Jobs launches on the market.
By the way, I don't use IE7, I use Opera for 10 years now (which I configured to acess my accounts and mails from both windows and ubuntu). I have a facebook account, which I use to see how other people are doing - including some of the most advanced pd users present on this list, they post more on it than I do.
If you want to advocate segregation go ahead, but be honest about it. After all you use unix, you have the moral advantage (or you like to say you do).
João Pais
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Well, let me be more clear. The last thing I wanted to be is offensive.
you advocate to stop maintaining Pd for windows
No I don't. I said clearly: "So, my opinion is to just be more consentrated on Mac/GNU-Linux support." . Because, I think more people participating in Pd are in a different OS from windows.
By the way, I don't use IE7, I use Opera for 10 years now (which I
configured to acess my accounts >and mails from both windows and ubuntu).
I see you more... agreeing with me for how people should treat the Win OS (and MacOS of course) than you think.
And curiously, at the same time you said GNU-Linux is so great, you moved
out of it to Mac -
where you have to pay double the amount for the hardware, and the manufacturer even goes to the trouble of making sure every laptop model
has a different electricity
cable, so that you have to spend more money you case you loose it. ...At least I don't call mac users a bunch of preformatted hipsters who
stand for hours in line to be the
first to buy whatever crap Jobs launches on the market.
Is this "let the battle begin" kind of paragraph? I allready told that I UNFORTUNATELY moved to Mac because of it's support for audio producing and left the "strictly GNU-linux user" side of me. Everyone has his reasons using the OS he has installed, eventually.
I have a facebook account, which I use to see how other people are doing -
including some of the most advanced pd users present on this list, they post more on it than I do.
Then you should add me. Nothing against Facebook using, I'm against Farmville-like invitations. http://tinyurl.com/2v8fhps
On 18 September 2010 01:30, João Pais jmmmpais@googlemail.com wrote:
Hi, I' m not a PD advanced user but here is my story:
I think the dilemma is "Do we need more users for PD (and make it work perfectly in Windows too) or we need to aim the PD development for Linux/ Mac users (and don't waste our "limited resources")?"
*Well , I have seen on youtube etc people using windows and they are experts of PureData* but how many are they really? One of the reasons I chose to run GNU-Linux on my previous setup (besides the xp partition) are things you can have in it. And yes, PD was one of my major reasons! I unfortunately had then to buy a Mac because of the support of audio applications generally.
Ok , most of people using a computer have Windows on their setup and in countries like Greece ... you have to even use it in your university. BUT: Do really people care about programs like PD or the ideology/democratic openess behind GNU-Linux when they use windows? Most of us had the first choice for our system of windows and we MOVED when we saw what we can and we cannot do in it.
So, my opinion is to just be more consentrated on Mac/GNU-Linux support. There are not too many people who will really have the interest to learn Pd in depth and then browsing with IE7 their Facebook accounts.
I honestly don't want to make Pd/Win users feel stupid.
No, but you just said something like "pd is too valuable for windows, these guys can't appreciate the beauty of it, and they just want to be fed whatever the big bo$$ puts in their mouths", and advocate to stop maintaining Pd for windows. And curiously, at the same time you said GNU-Linux is so great, you moved out of it to Mac - where you have to pay double the amount for the hardware, and the manufacturer even goes to the trouble of making sure every laptop model has a different electricity cable, so that you have to spend more money you case you loose it. And you're worried about people not following ideology?
I'm a windows user, I don't know if I'm an "advanced pd user" (or what that is), but I've been using pd only for several years, have done my contributions to pd-ext (extra/jmmmp and donations in $), have patches for people to download if they want to, taken and given Pd workshops, was present in the Floss session, have worked on documentation, and partly organise the pd berlin users meeting. So, I don't appreciate when people judge windows users as idiots which don't know better, because I am one. At least I don't call mac users a bunch of preformatted hipsters who stand for hours in line to be the first to buy whatever crap Jobs launches on the market.
By the way, I don't use IE7, I use Opera for 10 years now (which I configured to acess my accounts and mails from both windows and ubuntu). I have a facebook account, which I use to see how other people are doing - including some of the most advanced pd users present on this list, they post more on it than I do.
If you want to advocate segregation go ahead, but be honest about it. After all you use unix, you have the moral advantage (or you like to say you do).
João Pais
Well, let me be more clear. The last thing I wanted to be is offensive.
it didn't came out as offensive, just ideologic. you don't have to worry
to be polite.
you advocate to stop maintaining Pd for windows
No I don't. I said clearly: "So, my opinion is to just be more
consentrated on Mac/GNU-Linux support." . Because, I think more people participating
in Pd are in a different OS from windows.
hmm, doesn't "being more concentrated in mac/gnu-linux" means "stop
releasing code for windows"? you weren't suggesting something radical like
delete windows builds of the servers, but you were sugesting to stop
releasing code for a specific os.
By the way, I don't use IE7, I use Opera for 10 years now (which I
configured to acess my accounts >and mails from both windows and ubuntu).
I see you more... agreeing with me for how people should treat the Win OS (and MacOS of course) than you think.
not really. just because I'm on windows doesn't mean I'm an imperialist
sob. I use as much free software or shareware as I can (as long as it
works). but I never went to someone and said "the guys that use the system
X don't really appreciate your ideology, stop wasting your time with them".
Is this "let the battle begin" kind of paragraph?
I'm not interested in battles, only debates or dialog.
I allready told that I UNFORTUNATELY moved to Mac because of it's support for audio producing and left the "strictly GNU-linux user" side of me. Everyone has his reasons using the OS he has installed, eventually.
exactly. this isn't about the systems, it's about the ideology. if in one
paragraph you say "BUT: Do really people care about programs like PD or
the ideology/democratic openess behind GNU-Linux when they use windows?",
and then in the other you say you yourself don't make the sacrifices to
keep to the same ideology you're judging others on, what authority do you
have in the first place to be making judgments?
Then you should add me. Nothing against Facebook using, I'm against Farmville-like invitations. http://tinyurl.com/2v8fhps
fortunately they can block that as well as mafia games. they're annoying.
What's the point of advocating a proprietary operating system that does not even have good quality software?
Other think is: do not talk about price when you talk about free software.... That's losing the point. I think free software should be of very good quality and people should be encouraged to pay for it if they make money of of it, or if they can contribute with something.
2010/9/17 João Pais jmmmpais@googlemail.com:
Hi, I' m not a PD advanced user but here is my story: I think the dilemma is "Do we need more users for PD (and make it work perfectly in Windows too) or we need to aim the PD development for Linux/ Mac users (and don't waste our "limited resources")?"
*Well , I have seen on youtube etc people using windows and they are experts of PureData* but how many are they really? One of the reasons I chose to run GNU-Linux on my previous setup (besides the xp partition) are things you can have in it. And yes, PD was one of my major reasons! I unfortunately had then to buy a Mac because of the support of audio applications generally.
Ok , most of people using a computer have Windows on their setup and in countries like Greece ... you have to even use it in your university. BUT: Do really people care about programs like PD or the ideology/democratic openess behind GNU-Linux when they use windows? Most of us had the first choice for our system of windows and we MOVED when we saw what we can and we cannot do in it.
So, my opinion is to just be more consentrated on Mac/GNU-Linux support. There are not too many people who will really have the interest to learn Pd in depth and then browsing with IE7 their Facebook accounts.
I honestly don't want to make Pd/Win users feel stupid.
No, but you just said something like "pd is too valuable for windows, these guys can't appreciate the beauty of it, and they just want to be fed whatever the big bo$$ puts in their mouths", and advocate to stop maintaining Pd for windows. And curiously, at the same time you said GNU-Linux is so great, you moved out of it to Mac - where you have to pay double the amount for the hardware, and the manufacturer even goes to the trouble of making sure every laptop model has a different electricity cable, so that you have to spend more money you case you loose it. And you're worried about people not following ideology?
I'm a windows user, I don't know if I'm an "advanced pd user" (or what that is), but I've been using pd only for several years, have done my contributions to pd-ext (extra/jmmmp and donations in $), have patches for people to download if they want to, taken and given Pd workshops, was present in the Floss session, have worked on documentation, and partly organise the pd berlin users meeting. So, I don't appreciate when people judge windows users as idiots which don't know better, because I am one. At least I don't call mac users a bunch of preformatted hipsters who stand for hours in line to be the first to buy whatever crap Jobs launches on the market.
By the way, I don't use IE7, I use Opera for 10 years now (which I configured to acess my accounts and mails from both windows and ubuntu). I have a facebook account, which I use to see how other people are doing - including some of the most advanced pd users present on this list, they post more on it than I do.
If you want to advocate segregation go ahead, but be honest about it. After all you use unix, you have the moral advantage (or you like to say you do).
João Pais
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BTW I think the use of free software on Windows can be only *moderately* encouraged. Just to give a taste, but the main development focus should be on a free operating system.
2010/9/18 Bernardo Barros bernardobarros2@gmail.com:
What's the point of advocating a proprietary operating system that does not even have good quality software?
Other think is: do not talk about price when you talk about free software.... That's losing the point. I think free software should be of very good quality and people should be encouraged to pay for it if they make money of of it, or if they can contribute with something.
2010/9/17 João Pais jmmmpais@googlemail.com:
Hi, I' m not a PD advanced user but here is my story: I think the dilemma is "Do we need more users for PD (and make it work perfectly in Windows too) or we need to aim the PD development for Linux/ Mac users (and don't waste our "limited resources")?"
*Well , I have seen on youtube etc people using windows and they are experts of PureData* but how many are they really? One of the reasons I chose to run GNU-Linux on my previous setup (besides the xp partition) are things you can have in it. And yes, PD was one of my major reasons! I unfortunately had then to buy a Mac because of the support of audio applications generally.
Ok , most of people using a computer have Windows on their setup and in countries like Greece ... you have to even use it in your university. BUT: Do really people care about programs like PD or the ideology/democratic openess behind GNU-Linux when they use windows? Most of us had the first choice for our system of windows and we MOVED when we saw what we can and we cannot do in it.
So, my opinion is to just be more consentrated on Mac/GNU-Linux support. There are not too many people who will really have the interest to learn Pd in depth and then browsing with IE7 their Facebook accounts.
I honestly don't want to make Pd/Win users feel stupid.
No, but you just said something like "pd is too valuable for windows, these guys can't appreciate the beauty of it, and they just want to be fed whatever the big bo$$ puts in their mouths", and advocate to stop maintaining Pd for windows. And curiously, at the same time you said GNU-Linux is so great, you moved out of it to Mac - where you have to pay double the amount for the hardware, and the manufacturer even goes to the trouble of making sure every laptop model has a different electricity cable, so that you have to spend more money you case you loose it. And you're worried about people not following ideology?
I'm a windows user, I don't know if I'm an "advanced pd user" (or what that is), but I've been using pd only for several years, have done my contributions to pd-ext (extra/jmmmp and donations in $), have patches for people to download if they want to, taken and given Pd workshops, was present in the Floss session, have worked on documentation, and partly organise the pd berlin users meeting. So, I don't appreciate when people judge windows users as idiots which don't know better, because I am one. At least I don't call mac users a bunch of preformatted hipsters who stand for hours in line to be the first to buy whatever crap Jobs launches on the market.
By the way, I don't use IE7, I use Opera for 10 years now (which I configured to acess my accounts and mails from both windows and ubuntu). I have a facebook account, which I use to see how other people are doing - including some of the most advanced pd users present on this list, they post more on it than I do.
If you want to advocate segregation go ahead, but be honest about it. After all you use unix, you have the moral advantage (or you like to say you do).
João Pais
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Just to give a taste, but the main development focus should be on a free
operating system. Leave that decision to each developer. He develops for whatever he wants, do not forget - in the free software world - developers are pretty much in charge (still are). Of course that a lot of commercial open softwares exist, I'm talking about softwares in a smaller picture.
BTW I think the use of free software on Windows can be only *moderately*
encouraged. Same as above, you like Unix, develop for Unix. You use Win, you like Win or like people to use your stuff in Win... develop for Win.
I'm working on a pd external for DTW (pretty much finished and already working), I'll not build it for Window... but do not mind if everyone that can build it, build and let windows users to use it :)
I know that your point (what you advocate) is bringing open source closer to FULL open source solutions, an thus not limit in the operating system. I understand what you mean, but just feel that its not the way to win anything, furthermore I do not make this a battle between anything.
ps.:: Overall I like the idea that anyone can do whatever he wants. If you love Win (I know devs who do) I like to see their open software for the aforementioned system, its fun to see.
On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 4:22 PM, Bernardo Barros bernardobarros2@gmail.comwrote:
Just to give a taste, but the main development focus should be on a free operating system.
What's the point of advocating a proprietary operating system that does not even have good quality software?
can you give examples? I work with Pd, sibelius, reaper, ...
Other think is: do not talk about price when you talk about free software.... That's losing the point. I think free software should be of very good quality and people should be encouraged to pay for it if they make money of of it, or if they can contribute with something.
I never talked about price about free software, don't know where you got
that. Can you be more precise?
I think all software should be of good quality. When I spend X hours
trying to work with an OS and I get nothing done, that's a criteria for me
to leave that os and go to an other where I can produce something, not
just be solving problems all the time. but that's my decision.
Since you speak of contributing, you can go back read my e-mail. I've
given a donation to Hans for his work on Pd-ext (nothing fancy), and also
bought the hard disk where the windows builds on the compile farm are
stored. Besides that, I've spent lots of time helping with documentation
(go back to read my mail). So, we agree on this.
can you give examples? I work with Pd, sibelius, reaper, ...
I was referring to Microsoft Windows when talking about audio work. I understand someone using macos because of coreaudio and other good software, but I don't get it for Windows.
Since you speak of contributing, you can go back read my e-mail. I've given a donation to Hans for his work on Pd-ext (nothing fancy), and also bought the hard disk where the windows builds on the compile farm are stored. Besides that, I've spent lots of time helping with documentation (go back to read my mail). So, we agree on this.
I was not referring to you personally. Some areas of free software are really well funded (the kernel for instance...), but audio/multimedia/music are not there yet. I think donations and work from the artists themselves with technical knowledge are some options.
--- On Sun, 9/19/10, João Pais jmmmpais@googlemail.com wrote:
From: João Pais jmmmpais@googlemail.com Subject: Re: [PD] "I'm on unix, I'm much better than windows users!" (was Pd-extended 0.42.5 release candidate 6 released!) To: "Bernardo Barros" bernardobarros2@gmail.com Cc: "pd-list" pd-list@iem.at Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 9:06 AM
What's the point of advocating a
proprietary operating system that
does not even have good quality software?
can you give examples? I work with Pd, sibelius, reaper, ...
Other think is: do not talk about price when you talk
about free
software.... That's losing the point. I think free
software should be
of very good quality and people should be encouraged
to pay for it if
they make money of of it, or if they can contribute
with something.
I never talked about price about free software, don't know where you got that. Can you be more precise?
I think all software should be of good quality. When I spend X hours trying to work with an OS and I get nothing done, that's a criteria for me to leave that os and go to an other where I can produce something, not just be solving problems all the time. but that's my decision.
With any free software that you deem not up to your standards,
make sure to check back periodically to see if its feature set
has changed substantially since the last time you used it.
I think this is especially important for a free OS, because as
improvements/bug fixes/hardware support start to snowball, the problems that ate up all your time can quickly disappear.
-Jonathan
2010/9/20 Jonathan Wilkes jancsika@yahoo.com:
--- On Sun, 9/19/10, João Pais jmmmpais@googlemail.com wrote:
From: João Pais jmmmpais@googlemail.com Subject: Re: [PD] "I'm on unix, I'm much better than windows users!" (was Pd-extended 0.42.5 release candidate 6 released!) To: "Bernardo Barros" bernardobarros2@gmail.com Cc: "pd-list" pd-list@iem.at Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 9:06 AM
What's the point of advocating a
proprietary operating system that
does not even have good quality software?
can you give examples? I work with Pd, sibelius, reaper, ...
Other think is: do not talk about price when you talk
about free
software.... That's losing the point. I think free
software should be
of very good quality and people should be encouraged
to pay for it if
they make money of of it, or if they can contribute
with something.
I never talked about price about free software, don't know where you got that. Can you be more precise?
I think all software should be of good quality. When I spend X hours trying to work with an OS and I get nothing done, that's a criteria for me to leave that os and go to an other where I can produce something, not just be solving problems all the time. but that's my decision.
With any free software that you deem not up to your standards, make sure to check back periodically to see if its feature set has changed substantially since the last time you used it. I think this is especially important for a free OS, because as improvements/bug fixes/hardware support start to snowball, the problems that ate up all your time can quickly disappear.
-Jonathan
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
I'm on Linux, emm, now Im writing this in W7. W7 is not bad on audio, asio4all gives good latency with a crappy sound card, It doesnt crash... In the same machine I have Leopard, is nice, but windows is more "open" or tweakable ! So yes, Mac is cool, core is cool, but, not so cool now. Linux: Linux is faster, is easy, sometimes is not so easy, is much more open than anything. Each year GNU/Linux & free software apps are better and better. If you want to use Windows, use Windows, if you like OS X, use that. And if you use Linux, well, you are on the right side... HEHEHE.
[many] wrote:
[something]
If you want to use Windows, use Windows, if you like OS X, use that. And if you use Linux, well, you are on the right side... HEHEHE.
Lapalissian... I would say :) Lorenzo
If you want to use Windows, use Windows, if you like OS X, use that. And if you use Linux, well, you are on the right side... HEHEHE.
that's my attitude as well. but if someone starts saying "let's not waste
our time with non-unix systems, they're not open source anyway so it makes
no sense to let them use our software", I'll soon not be able to do that
anymore.
(and the most "coherent" is that they always rebel against windows, but
not against mac, which in these days is more commercial and bigbrothery
than windows ever was - acording to some comments from friends that use
mac)
Hi friends...My experience with Pure Data in Windows is terrible, unfortunately here in South America does not dare to implement at the Universities Unix systems ... is sad that in trying to integrate systems such as PD, Arduino and Processing is very slow ... falls and crashes ... doing very well in Linux and Mac, but when bombarded with the Adobe suite is not much we can do to install Linux ...Furthermore, as media artists have an ethical commitment to research, which in Windows is difficult to make due to the closeness of the system and license issue ... It is very interesting here, is a subject to discuss, perhaps in the next pdcon
Best regards
José
2010/9/21 João Pais jmmmpais@googlemail.com
If you want to use Windows, use Windows, if you like OS X, use that.
And if you use Linux, well, you are on the right side... HEHEHE.
that's my attitude as well. but if someone starts saying "let's not waste our time with non-unix systems, they're not open source anyway so it makes no sense to let them use our software", I'll soon not be able to do that anymore. (and the most "coherent" is that they always rebel against windows, but not against mac, which in these days is more commercial and bigbrothery than windows ever was - acording to some comments from friends that use mac)
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On Tue, 21 Sep 2010, João Pais wrote:
(and the most "coherent" is that they always rebel against windows, but not against mac, which in these days is more commercial and bigbrothery than windows ever was - acording to some comments from friends that use mac)
Microsoft has got 90% of the computer market by the balls. They don't really need any other tricks than that (such as DRM or whatever). For Apple or any company, it's a lot easier to expand themselves in a place where Microsoft isn't already. I think that you understand that Microsoft got its 90% not just by selling quality software, and that you understand why so many shops absolutely refuse to sell a computer without Windows even though there's a market for it. Isn't this the most damaging thing going on every day in the industry ?
| Mathieu Bouchard ------------------------------ Villeray, Montréal, QC
I'm not defending microsoft. just saying that - according to comments from
friends using apple, one or two in this list - apple isn't behaving
un-evil as well.
Microsoft has got 90% of the computer market by the balls. They don't really need any other tricks than that (such as DRM or whatever). For Apple or any company, it's a lot easier to expand themselves in a place where Microsoft isn't already. I think that you understand that Microsoft got its 90% not just by selling quality software, and that you understand why so many shops absolutely refuse to sell a computer without Windows even though there's a market for it. Isn't this the most damaging thing going on every day in the industry ?
| Mathieu Bouchard ------------------------------ Villeray, Montréal, QC
On Tue, 21 Sep 2010, João Pais wrote:
I'm not defending microsoft. just saying that - according to comments from friends using apple, one or two in this list - apple isn't behaving un-evil as well.
I know that you aren't.
(And I know that you know that I'm not defending Apple. ;)
| Mathieu Bouchard ------------------------------ Villeray, Montréal, QC
--- On Tue, 9/21/10, Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca wrote:
From: Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca Subject: Re: [PD] "I'm on unix, I'm much better than windows users!" (was Pd-extended 0.42.5 release candidate 6 released!) To: "João Pais" jmmmpais@googlemail.com Cc: "pd-list" pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 21, 2010, 4:05 PM On Tue, 21 Sep 2010, João Pais wrote:
(and the most "coherent" is that they always rebel
against windows, but not against mac, which in these days is more commercial and bigbrothery than windows ever was - acording to some comments from friends that use mac)
Microsoft has got 90% of the computer market by the balls. They don't really need any other tricks than that (such as DRM or whatever). For Apple or any company, it's a lot easier to expand themselves in a place where Microsoft isn't already. I think that you understand that Microsoft got its 90% not just by selling quality software, and that you understand why so many shops absolutely refuse to sell a computer without Windows even though there's a market for it. Isn't this the most damaging thing going on every day in the industry ?
Maybe, but to get around that problem you just do what Yves was talking about and help someone switch to a free os. Regarding music specifically, however, Apple's actions are more worrisome to me.
Apple is involved deeply in getting computer files to behave less like "pure data" and more like old media formats. Actually it's worse than that, because with an audio cassette player you could record as many copies of an album as you could afford. You can't even make your own personal copy with Apple's aac files from Itunes (and if you do it's illegal in the U.S.).
Unlike Microsoft users, who usually have a healthy dose of animosity toward the os, Apple users love their software. To me, this is one of the biggest problems in the industry because it means that people aren't asking really obvious questions in response to DRM. (For example: why is fair use _shrinking_ when technology is making the cost of copying/distributing music next to nothing? Instead, it should be expanding, right?) If in 10 years sharing my music files with you isn't as easy as touching you on the shoulder, you'll mainly have Apple and the RIAA to thank.
Another obvious question: if I'm buying an entire album of music files in a restricted format that locks me into using Itunes and makes it nearly impossible (AFAICT) to transfer over my music library to GNU/Linux, shouldn't I be paying _substantially_ less for those files than if I bought the album on CD?
-Jonathan
| Mathieu Bouchard ------------------------------ Villeray, Montréal, QC -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
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On Fri, 2010-09-17 at 14:42 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Can we move the Windows bashing to another list? I'm sure there are
much better venues. I'd much prefer it if we were friendly to Pd/ Windows users rather than try to make them feel stupid.
Aren't we all a bit windows users?
BTW and to get on-topic again: Many thanks for all the work you put in to that Pd-extended build.
"0.42.5 is the best and fastest Pd-extended ever", would Steve Jobs say, if Pd-extended would be his child. (Sorry for getting off-topic again and changing context so quickly.)
Roman
On Sep 17, 2010, at 4:19 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote:
On Fri, 2010-09-17 at 14:42 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Can we move the Windows bashing to another list? I'm sure there are much better venues. I'd much prefer it if we were friendly to Pd/ Windows users rather than try to make them feel stupid.
Aren't we all a bit windows users?
BTW and to get on-topic again: Many thanks for all the work you put in to that Pd-extended build.
"0.42.5 is the best and fastest Pd-extended ever", would Steve Jobs
say, if Pd-extended would be his child. (Sorry for getting off-topic again and changing context so quickly.)Roman
The new Pd-extended experience is just amazing, new possibilities will
open up before your eyes! I can't imagine patching without it.
.hc
Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with a long stick. - David Zicarelli
Evangelise boy, the Pope is in town and I think we've got one-up on the Vatican (do the Mussolini)
Metastudio 4 for Pure Data - coming soon!!
----- Original Message ---- From: Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@at.or.at To: Roman Haefeli reduzent@gmail.com Cc: pd-list pd-list@iem.at Sent: Fri, 17 September, 2010 21:42:16 Subject: Re: [PD] Pd-extended 0.42.5 release candidate 6 released!
On Sep 17, 2010, at 4:19 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote:
On Fri, 2010-09-17 at 14:42 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Can we move the Windows bashing to another list? I'm sure there are much better venues. I'd much prefer it if we were friendly to Pd/ Windows users rather than try to make them feel stupid.
Aren't we all a bit windows users?
BTW and to get on-topic again: Many thanks for all the work you put in to that Pd-extended build.
"0.42.5 is the best and fastest Pd-extended ever", would Steve Jobs say, if Pd-extended would be his child. (Sorry for getting off-topic again and changing context so quickly.)
Roman
The new Pd-extended experience is just amazing, new possibilities will open up before your eyes! I can't imagine patching without it.
.hc
Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with a long stick. -David Zicarelli
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Ed Kelly wrote:
Evangelise boy, the Pope is in town and I think we've got one-up on the Vatican (do the Mussolini)
it was :'tanzen Mussolini', 'tanzen Adolf Hitler'
ok, i'm older than any on this list except Miller, sometimes sounds an old 'leave your illusion at the door' one, i admit
sevy
On 18.09.2010 05:05, ydegoyon@gmail.com wrote:
Ed Kelly wrote:
Evangelise boy, the Pope is in town and I think we've got one-up on the Vatican (do the Mussolini)
it was :'tanzen Mussolini', 'tanzen Adolf Hitler'
ok, i'm older than any on this list except Miller, sometimes sounds an old 'leave your illusion at the door' one, i admit
sevy
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You're both right: Do the Mussolini was by Cabaret Voltaire, Der Mussolini by DAF ;)
And now back to OT: PD-extended 0.42.5 runs great on both my Debian squeeze machines and I like it. Thank you, Miller, for developping Pd, Hans for packaging etc, and all the other contributors.
Best regards, Thomas
You're both right: Do the Mussolini was by Cabaret Voltaire, Der Mussolini by DAF ;)
sorry, can't resist to post a link that makes you wonder if you control your computer or your computer is controlling you?
fascist computer !!!! ::
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FKfxPXFStE
<http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D3FKfxPXFStE%26feature%3Dplayer_embedded&h=e1b88>
link gently provided by kareem from http://www.100copies.com
shukran, sevy
Perhaps I'm missing something here, but am I the only person who finds a whole load of swastikas kind of offensive?
If I missed a joke it didn't seem that funny anyway.
On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 4:57 AM, ydegoyon@gmail.com ydegoyon@gmail.comwrote:
You're both right: Do the Mussolini was by Cabaret Voltaire, Der
Mussolini by DAF ;)
sorry, can't resist to post a link that makes you wonder if you control your computer or your computer is controlling you?
fascist computer !!!! ::
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FKfxPXFStE <http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D3...
link gently provided by kareem from http://www.100copies.com
shukran,
sevy
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2010/9/20 Dominic Pflaum dompflaum@gmail.com:
Perhaps I'm missing something here, but am I the only person who finds a whole load of swastikas kind of offensive?
The Swastika is a very very old symbol, from the Neolithic.
Dominic Pflaum wrote:
Perhaps I'm missing something here, but am I the only person who finds a whole load of swastikas kind of offensive?
If I missed a joke it didn't seem that funny anyway.
Agreed over here :/
On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 4:57 AM, ydegoyon@gmail.com mailto:ydegoyon@gmail.com <ydegoyon@gmail.com mailto:ydegoyon@gmail.com> wrote:
You're both right: Do the Mussolini was by Cabaret Voltaire, Der Mussolini by DAF ;) sorry, can't resist to post a link that makes you wonder if you control your computer or your computer is controlling you? fascist computer !!!! :: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FKfxPXFStE <http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D3FKfxPXFStE%26feature%3Dplayer_embedded&h=e1b88 <http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D3FKfxPXFStE%26feature%3Dplayer_embedded&h=e1b88>> link gently provided by kareem from http://www.100copies.com shukran, sevy _______________________________________________ Pd-list@iem.at <mailto:Pd-list@iem.at> mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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Lorenzo wrote:
Dominic Pflaum wrote:
Perhaps I'm missing something here, but am I the only person who finds a whole load of swastikas kind of offensive?
If I missed a joke it didn't seem that funny anyway.
Agreed over here :/
sorry you don't understand why it has been posted here ( feel i have to explain like very slooowwly ) ::
i read some messages about some people being fanatic about one system or another, that's why i remind you that whatever system you're running, the computer acts as a dictator in your life.
hihi
and those who can't laugh about swastikas have still a serious problem with history, imho...
ciao, seyv
what is the name of the video? here in germany it says that this link
attents against the law, and can't be seen. the facebook links give me
warnings about malware and pishing, so I didn't click on them.
sorry, can't resist to post a link that makes you wonder if you control your computer or your computer is controlling you?
fascist computer !!!! ::
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FKfxPXFStE <http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D3FKfxPXFStE%26feature%3Dplayer_embedded&h=e1b88>link gently provided by kareem from http://www.100copies.com
shukran, sevy
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2010/9/21 João Pais jmmmpais@googlemail.com:
what is the name of the video? here in germany it says that this link attents against the law, and can't be seen. the facebook links give me warnings about malware and pishing, so I didn't click on them.
In Germany you cant use a swastika, the video is full of that symbol. But you cant see videos from another countries with swastikas??? The name of the video is CANCER MATRIX SYGNOK KOMPUTER 1 , plus some crosses in the title too.
On Sep 21, 2010, at 1:49 PM, jm jones wrote:
2010/9/21 João Pais jmmmpais@googlemail.com:
what is the name of the video? here in germany it says that this link attents against the law, and can't be seen. the facebook links give
me warnings about malware and pishing, so I didn't click on them.In Germany you cant use a swastika, the video is full of that symbol. But you cant see videos from another countries with swastikas??? The name of the video is CANCER MATRIX SYGNOK KOMPUTER 1 , plus some crosses in the title too.
I wonder what buddhists and hindus do in Germany. Its a common symbol
in Buddhism and Hinduism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
Banning symbols is a silly thing to do, IMHO. The swastika was not
the problem, it was what people did. Bans just make people believe
they are doing something useful instead of actually working on the
problem.
Guess we should switch to pd-ot...
.hc
The arc of history bends towards justice. - Dr. Martin Luther
King, Jr.
considering the conotations to that symbol in recent history, it's a bit
naive to say that it's related to budhism etc anymore. at least not to
anyone who isn't a budhist.
try going to germany and walking around with a t-shirt with that. the
least that can happen to you is to go to jail. if you go to a neighborhood
where a group of punks is chilling, you might not make it alive. (except
in some cities in the east, then they'll offer you beer and shave your
hair)
I wonder what buddhists and hindus do in Germany. Its a common symbol
in Buddhism and Hinduism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SwastikaBanning symbols is a silly thing to do, IMHO. The swastika was not the
problem, it was what people did. Bans just make people believe they are
doing something useful instead of actually working on the problem.Guess we should switch to pd-ot...
.hc
The arc of history bends towards justice. - Dr. Martin Luther King,
Jr.
but using the swatiska ( and the slastika ) precisely when you criticize it is also forbidden?? that's where the problem stands... forbidding things just _attract_ people to it...
second, if skinheads offer me some beers, it's ok... they're all like wasted children you know...
it's not OT, the subject can change to ... "the Pope likes swatikas (utf-8) in Pd-extended 0.42.5"
ciao, sevy
João Pais wrote:
considering the conotations to that symbol in recent history, it's a bit naive to say that it's related to budhism etc anymore. at least not to anyone who isn't a budhist.
try going to germany and walking around with a t-shirt with that. the least that can happen to you is to go to jail. if you go to a neighborhood where a group of punks is chilling, you might not make it alive. (except in some cities in the east, then they'll offer you beer and shave your hair)
I wonder what buddhists and hindus do in Germany. Its a common symbol in Buddhism and Hinduism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
Banning symbols is a silly thing to do, IMHO. The swastika was not the problem, it was what people did. Bans just make people believe they are doing something useful instead of actually working on the problem.
Guess we should switch to pd-ot...
.hc
The arc of history bends towards justice. - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
but using the swatiska ( and the slastika ) precisely when you criticize
it is also forbidden?? that's where the problem stands... forbidding things just _attract_ people to it...
I don't know the law that well. but it's normal to see punks antifa with
this on their back
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_O2iB5xy9Vio/SUPKED-_xpI/AAAAAAAAACE/wthZTXBnbu8/S2...
Here's a small resume, more details in the german page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#Germany. according to the article,
even the law was a bit dumb, until they eventually got it right
second, if skinheads offer me some beers, it's ok... they're all like wasted children you know...
as soon as they hear your accent, don't know if they'll be that wasted.
they look quite awake here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqP4ZQGqi7M&feature=related (this is from
2006)
last year, just 10m walk from here, a guy was beaten down in the subway,
in the centre of berlin.
http://www.trend.infopartisan.net/trd7809/t497809.html (first news).
fortunately everytime they try a nazi demonstration, there's a antidemo
with 100x more people.
2010/9/21 Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@at.or.at:
I wonder what buddhists and hindus do in Germany. Its a common symbol in Buddhism and Hinduism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
Banning symbols is a silly thing to do, IMHO. The swastika was not the problem, it was what people did. Bans just make people believe they are doing something useful instead of actually working on the problem.
Guess we should switch to pd-ot...
.hc
+1000
The swastika is not only related to the Eastern tradition, very old swastikas were find in Europe too (paleolithic). In the esoteric tradition, is one of the more important symbols.
"Beautiful" - P Magazine, "3.14159 / 5" - Autoretractive DJ, "I wish I was born with it in my head-chip! [sqrt 2]" Antidisestablismentarian Monthly,
"Total mindfish = 9 / 8" Who'd Have thought It? Magazine, "I wish I had a Steve Steiner Like Hans Cristoph Jobs Did! - 48 / 37" - Dirty Unix Lover,
"Super Duper Stupor Future Tupor!" - Monster monthly mouthy mess Mac magblog, "Eat My 0.42.5!" - Nonsense Megawiki
Metastudio 4 for Pure Data - coming soon!! Don't hold your breath.
Ouch. It hurts. I grow up tomorrow.
----- Original Message ---- From: Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@at.or.at To: Roman Haefeli reduzent@gmail.com Cc: pd-list pd-list@iem.at Sent: Fri, 17 September, 2010 21:42:16 Subject: Re: [PD] Pd-extended 0.42.5 release candidate 6 released!
On Sep 17, 2010, at 4:19 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote:
On Fri, 2010-09-17 at 14:42 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Can we move the Windows bashing to another list? I'm sure there are much better venues. I'd much prefer it if we were friendly to Pd/ Windows users rather than try to make them feel stupid.
Aren't we all a bit windows users?
BTW and to get on-topic again: Many thanks for all the work you put in to that Pd-extended build.
"0.42.5 is the best and fastest Pd-extended ever", would Steve Jobs say, if Pd-extended would be his child. (Sorry for getting off-topic again and changing context so quickly.)
Roman
The new Pd-extended experience is just amazing, new possibilities will open up before your eyes! I can't imagine patching without it.
.hc
Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with a long stick. -David Zicarelli
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how many linux users does it take to screw in a light bulb?
3 full time people, plus the help of online pages in the internet, and
lots of hours going around forums and chats. and in the end the bulb still
doesn't work because it can't compile, or one of the libraries is too
old/too new, or the software is allergic to the hardware, or something
else that no one can explain.
that sums up my experience with linux so far. windows works for me, I do
all my performances with it and never regreted it.
Windows7_Error: 001 Windows 7 loaded - Warning your computer is now in
danger2010/9/17 Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca:
On Fri, 17 Sep 2010, patko wrote:
(please don't read this serioulsy)
Hahaha ! Hey, I have one :
Q: how many Windows users does it take to screw a light bulb ?
A: None : Windows can very well screw anything on its own !
(intraduisible)
| Mathieu Bouchard ------------------------------ Villeray, Montréal, QC
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João Pais wrote:
how many linux users does it take to screw in a light bulb?
3 full time people, plus the help of online pages in the internet, and lots of hours going around forums and chats. and in the end the bulb still doesn't work because it can't compile, or one of the libraries is too old/too new, or the software is allergic to the hardware, or something else that no one can explain.
that's where you miss the most important point, the goal of linux is to explain how it works or why it doesn't, it doesn't matter if it doesn't work... ouch, too deep, ok
sevy
3 full time people, plus the help of online pages in the internet, and
lots of hours going around forums and chats. and in the end the bulb
still doesn't work because it can't compile, or one of the libraries is
too old/too new, or the software is allergic to the hardware, or
something else that no one can explain.that's where you miss the most important point, the goal of linux is to explain how it works or why it doesn't, it doesn't matter if it doesn't work... ouch, too deep, ok
? it doesn't matter if a program doesn't work? yep, tooooo deep, right.
then I have the perfect linux system - just installed ubuntu 10.04 two
days ago, and at this release the trackpoint in my thinkpad r51 still
doesn't work out of the box.
João Pais wrote:
3 full time people, plus the help of online pages in the internet, and lots of hours going around forums and chats. and in the end the bulb still doesn't work because it can't compile, or one of the libraries is too old/too new, or the software is allergic to the hardware, or something else that no one can explain.
that's where you miss the most important point, the goal of linux is to explain how it works or why it doesn't, it doesn't matter if it doesn't work... ouch, too deep, ok
? it doesn't matter if a program doesn't work? yep, tooooo deep, right.
exactly, i'm only interested in crashing systems... but also in learning why it crashes ...
then I have the perfect linux system - just installed ubuntu 10.04 two days ago, and at this release the trackpoint in my thinkpad r51 still doesn't work out of the box.
use an external mouse, you'll get less wrist injury
sevy
then I have the perfect linux system - just installed ubuntu 10.04 two
days ago, and at this release the trackpoint in my thinkpad r51 still
doesn't work out of the box.use an external mouse, you'll get less wrist injury
so the answer to the question is "run away and avoid the problem".
that's what I end up doing with linux - after loosing lots of time trying
to make it work, I use something else instead. we do understand each other.
I have everything working here, no problems, thanks
2010/9/18 João Pais jmmmpais@googlemail.com:
then I have the perfect linux system - just installed ubuntu 10.04 two days ago, and at this release the trackpoint in my thinkpad r51 still doesn't work out of the box.
use an external mouse, you'll get less wrist injury
so the answer to the question is "run away and avoid the problem". that's what I end up doing with linux - after loosing lots of time trying to make it work, I use something else instead. we do understand each other.
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João Pais wrote:
how many linux users does it take to screw in a light bulb?
None: Someone hacked a Perl script in 1992 using vi to do it and it still works. :P
Lorenzo
3 full time people, plus the help of online pages in the internet, and lots of hours going around forums and chats. and in the end the bulb still doesn't work because it can't compile, or one of the libraries is too old/too new, or the software is allergic to the hardware, or something else that no one can explain.
that sums up my experience with linux so far. windows works for me, I do all my performances with it and never regreted it.
Windows7_Error: 001 Windows 7 loaded - Warning your computer is now in danger
2010/9/17 Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca:
On Fri, 17 Sep 2010, patko wrote:
(please don't read this serioulsy)
Hahaha ! Hey, I have one :
Q: how many Windows users does it take to screw a light bulb ?
A: None : Windows can very well screw anything on its own !
(intraduisible)
| Mathieu Bouchard ------------------------------ Villeray, Montréal, QC
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how many classic macintosh users does it take to screw in a light bulb? One. It does everything you want as long as all you want it to do is screw in light bulbs.
On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 12:16 PM, Lorenzo lsutton@libero.it wrote:
João Pais wrote:
how many linux users does it take to screw in a light bulb?
None: Someone hacked a Perl script in 1992 using vi to do it and it still works. :P
Lorenzo
3 full time people, plus the help of online pages in the internet, and lots of hours going around forums and chats. and in the end the bulb still doesn't work because it can't compile, or one of the libraries is too old/too new, or the software is allergic to the hardware, or something else that no one can explain.
that sums up my experience with linux so far. windows works for me, I do all my performances with it and never regreted it.
Windows7_Error: 001 Windows 7 loaded - Warning your computer is now in
danger
2010/9/17 Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca:
On Fri, 17 Sep 2010, patko wrote:
(please don't read this serioulsy)
Hahaha ! Hey, I have one :
Q: how many Windows users does it take to screw a light bulb ?
A: None : Windows can very well screw anything on its own !
(intraduisible)
| Mathieu Bouchard ------------------------------ Villeray, Montréal, QC
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*flips the switch, nothing happens, then an error message pops up on the lampshade* Sorry, the light bulb you screwed in is not authorized for this lamp.
--- On Tue, 9/21/10, Charles Henry czhenry@gmail.com wrote:
From: Charles Henry czhenry@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PD] [OT] how many [your favourite os here] users does it take to screw in a light bulb? [WAS]: Re: Pd-extended 0.42.5 release candidate 6 released! To: "Lorenzo" lsutton@libero.it, pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, September 21, 2010, 4:59 AM
how many classic macintosh users does it take to screw in a light bulb? One. It does everything you want as long as all you want it to do is screw in light bulbs.
On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 12:16 PM, Lorenzo lsutton@libero.it wrote:
João Pais wrote:
how many linux users does it take to screw in a light bulb?
None: Someone hacked a Perl script in 1992 using vi to do it and it still works. :P
Lorenzo
3 full time people, plus the help of online pages in the internet, and lots of hours going around forums and chats. and in the end the bulb still doesn't work because it can't compile, or one of the libraries is too old/too new, or the software is allergic to the hardware, or something else that no one can explain.
that sums up my experience with linux so far. windows works for me, I do all my performances with it and never regreted it.
Windows7_Error: 001 Windows 7 loaded - Warning your computer is now in danger
2010/9/17 Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca:
On Fri, 17 Sep 2010, patko wrote:
(please don't read this serioulsy)
Hahaha ! Hey, I have one :
Q: how many Windows users does it take to screw a light bulb ?
A: None : Windows can very well screw anything on its own !
(intraduisible)
_______________________________________________________________________
| Mathieu Bouchard ------------------------------ Villeray, Montréal, QC
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