Hi everybody !
I'm new to the list, and I am new to Pure Data too… So I am afraid to ask you very naive questions.
I'd like to create patches to interact with videos in performances on
stage (a realtime multistream composited image), and I am wondering
what could be the best tool…
On Macintosh Max/MSP or Pure Data seem to be the more powerfull
softwares to manage that.
Because Pure Data is free, I'd prefer to learn it, but could you tell
me please if :
- Pure Data is "more powerfull" than Max/MSP for video ?
- Do I have to install extra libraries or extensions tu Pure Data to
manage videos, stage lights, captors, etc… A full set to download
somewhere ?
- What advise could you give me to learn how to create multistream
composited video patches ? A good tutorial for videos ?…
Thank you for your patience !
PAul
Am 03.11.2005 um 09:48 schrieb Paul Sellis:
Hi everybody !
I'm new to the list, and I am new to Pure Data too… So I am afraid to ask you very naive questions.
that's the place to ask those questions, no excuses. nevertheless it's expected that you have read the documentation... And put the subject of your question in the Subject of the email.
I'd like to create patches to interact with videos in performances
on stage (a realtime multistream composited image), and I am
wondering what could be the best tool…On Macintosh Max/MSP or Pure Data seem to be the more powerfull
softwares to manage that. Because Pure Data is free, I'd prefer to learn it, but could you
tell me please if :
- Pure Data is "more powerfull" than Max/MSP for video ?
you can't ask this question like this. you rather could compare Gem and Jitter...
- Do I have to install extra libraries or extensions tu Pure Data
to manage videos, stage lights, captors, etc… A full set to
download somewhere ?
yes. PD (and MAX/MSP too) are music softwares at their heart but can
be extended to manage more than that.
there are several “externals” (what you've called extra libraries) to
manipulate image with PD:
http://gem.iem.at http://ydegoyon.free.fr/pidip.html http://artengine.ca/jmax/gridflow http://framestein.org > http://sourceforge.net/projects/framestein
which one you use depends on your system and off-cause what you want
to achieve..
m.
Le 3 nov. 05 à 16:18, Max Neupert a écrit :
- Pure Data is "more powerfull" than Max/MSP for video ?
you can't ask this question like this. you rather could compare Gem and Jitter...
Yes you are right.
Please could someone tell me about Gem vs Jitter ? In general and in
my purpose :
In my project, I'd like to make a video projection composed yb up to
9 resized (downscaled) DV movies.
- Do I have to install extra libraries or extensions tu Pure Data
to manage videos, stage lights, captors, etc… A full set to
download somewhere ?yes. PD (and MAX/MSP too) are music softwares at their heart but
can be extended to manage more than that. there are several “externals” (what you've called extra libraries)
to manipulate image with PD:http://gem.iem.at http://ydegoyon.free.fr/pidip.html http://artengine.ca/jmax/gridflow http://framestein.org > http://sourceforge.net/projects/framestein
which one you use depends on your system and off-cause what you
want to achieve..
I am going to download them (and Thank you for the threads !).
PAul
How many projectors?
DV codec (I think) is only ever 720x480 NTSC, can't be downgraded, you would need to encode in a different format to get a different size.
So what codec, what size?
Interactive video or just video playback?
What HW are you planning to use?
I would not suggest jitter for such a project as far as I imagine putting straight video up... softVNS would be be my second suggestion after pd/Gem Linux/OSX.
Performance or installation?
How long will it run?
Video playback or seeking?
.b.
Paul Sellis wrote:
Le 3 nov. 05 à 16:18, Max Neupert a écrit :
- Pure Data is "more powerfull" than Max/MSP for video ?
you can't ask this question like this. you rather could compare Gem and Jitter...
Yes you are right.
Please could someone tell me about Gem vs Jitter ? In general and in my purpose : In my project, I'd like to make a video projection composed yb up to 9 resized (downscaled) DV movies.
- Do I have to install extra libraries or extensions tu Pure Data to
manage videos, stage lights, captors, etcÂ… A full set to download somewhere ?
yes. PD (and MAX/MSP too) are music softwares at their heart but can be extended to manage more than that. there are several “externals” (what you've called extra libraries) to manipulate image with PD:
http://gem.iem.at http://ydegoyon.free.fr/pidip.html http://artengine.ca/jmax/gridflow http://framestein.org > http://sourceforge.net/projects/framestein
which one you use depends on your system and off-cause what you want to achieve..
I am going to download them (and Thank you for the threads !).
PAul _______________________________________________ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Thank you for your answers Ben and Mathieu.
*** 4 nov. 05 at 14:44, B. Bogart wrote :
How many projectors?
for this project only 1.
But I'd like to learn a software which can synchronize more (lets say
3 or 4…).
DV codec (I think) is only ever 720x480 NTSC, can't be downgraded, you would need to encode in a different format to get a different size. So what codec, what size?
It's a DV Pal (so 720x576) downgraded at 33%. I did it (and the hole
sequence…) in Flash and ActionScript with the new Flash video codec.
The animation works fine. The only problem is that I am obliged to
use external video (not embeded) so with Flash I must use FLV. And
the quality seems not to be sufficient for video projections.
In this case, I don't know if it's possible to do each of these 9
movies with no compression (I don't think so with my laptop…). Which
codec would you recommand to me ?
Interactive video or just video playback?
In this case it would be just video playback
What HW are you planning to use?
My Apple G4 PowerBook 1,25GHz (???…)
I would not suggest jitter for such a project as far as I imagine putting straight video up... softVNS would be be my second suggestion after pd/Gem Linux/OSX.
I don't know "soft VNS"…
Is there a kind of "reference chart" where abilities and weakness of
each solution is displayed.
it seems to be a kind of maze for me now…
:-((
Performance or installation?
In this case an installation.
But I have opportunities to work for performances…
I'd like to learn a soft (Max/MSP, PD,…) which could be great for all
this…
(doesn't seems to be the case…)
How long will it run?
Up to 9 minutes. Looping.
Each movie begins at a random point between the begining and the end
of its duration.
It will be placed in a place choosen between 9 possible places (next
between the 8 remaining places, and so on…).
Everyboby plays until the end and wait x seconds after the last movie
has finished. Then the whole thing loops.
Video playback or seeking?
Video playback not streaming (was it what you were talking about ?)
I'm quite lost with the possibilities of Max/MSP, PD (or soft VNS…). I don't even know if that's possible to do that kind of things. I only know that it works fine in Flash with Actionscript…
*** 4 nov. 05 at 18:52, Mathieu Bouchard wrote :
If you are going to do any effects on those videos in realtime you
should say what you want to do because Gem differs very much from Jitter.
No effects in realtime on these videos. Only playback…
Your advises are more than welcome. ;-))
PAul
Hi Paul,
Ok 1 projector, that makes things a little easier.
9 videos is a lot, I have never done that many on one machine. Chris Clepper mentioned getting 3 DV videos playing on his laptop in Gem. When you say DV downgraded to 33% what does this actually mean? Compression quality of the size of the image?
I would suggest Gem as a good way of getting lots of video data onto the screen without fancy filters or pixel effects.
for codecs I would experiment, but like I said I'm pretty DV is limited to video resolution (NTSC or PAL).
Try 9 160x120 video clips and see how well that works.
You may need to spread them clips over multiple drives (which for you means external firewire) to get the right disk bandwidth.
jpeg-codec is a good start since it sounds like you are interested in some frame accuracy...
Good luck.
b.
Paul Sellis wrote:
Thank you for your answers Ben and Mathieu.
*** 4 nov. 05 at 14:44, B. Bogart wrote :
How many projectors?
for this project only 1. But I'd like to learn a software which can synchronize more (lets say 3 or 4Â…).
DV codec (I think) is only ever 720x480 NTSC, can't be downgraded, you would need to encode in a different format to get a different size. So what codec, what size?
It's a DV Pal (so 720x576) downgraded at 33%. I did it (and the hole sequenceÂ…) in Flash and ActionScript with the new Flash video codec. The animation works fine. The only problem is that I am obliged to use external video (not embeded) so with Flash I must use FLV. And the quality seems not to be sufficient for video projections. In this case, I don't know if it's possible to do each of these 9 movies with no compression (I don't think so with my laptopÂ…). Which codec would you recommand to me ?
Interactive video or just video playback?
In this case it would be just video playback
What HW are you planning to use?
My Apple G4 PowerBook 1,25GHz (???Â…)
I would not suggest jitter for such a project as far as I imagine putting straight video up... softVNS would be be my second suggestion after pd/Gem Linux/OSX.
I don't know "soft VNS"Â… Is there a kind of "reference chart" where abilities and weakness of each solution is displayed. it seems to be a kind of maze for me nowÂ… :-((
Performance or installation?
In this case an installation. But I have opportunities to work for performancesÂ… I'd like to learn a soft (Max/MSP, PD,Â…) which could be great for all thisÂ… (doesn't seems to be the caseÂ…)
How long will it run?
Up to 9 minutes. Looping. Each movie begins at a random point between the begining and the end of its duration. It will be placed in a place choosen between 9 possible places (next between the 8 remaining places, and so onÂ…). Everyboby plays until the end and wait x seconds after the last movie has finished. Then the whole thing loops.
Video playback or seeking?
Video playback not streaming (was it what you were talking about ?)
I'm quite lost with the possibilities of Max/MSP, PD (or soft VNSÂ…). I don't even know if that's possible to do that kind of things. I only know that it works fine in Flash with ActionscriptÂ…
*** 4 nov. 05 at 18:52, Mathieu Bouchard wrote :
If you are going to do any effects on those videos in realtime you should say what you want to do because Gem differs very much from Jitter.
No effects in realtime on these videos. Only playbackÂ…
Your advises are more than welcome. ;-))
PAul
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
I'm getting these threads confused since they are essentially asking the same question.
If you absolutely have to play 9 clips on that laptop at 25 fps at the same time, then you will need to use something other than PAL DV. I would suggest trying quarter frame PAL 352x288 using photo-jpeg compression. You will get smoother playback using the 'auto 1' 'rate 1' messages to pix_film since those use Quicktime's internal tasking methods to get frames.
cgc
On 11/6/05, B. Bogart ben@ekran.org wrote:
Hi Paul,
Ok 1 projector, that makes things a little easier.
9 videos is a lot, I have never done that many on one machine. Chris Clepper mentioned getting 3 DV videos playing on his laptop in Gem. When you say DV downgraded to 33% what does this actually mean? Compression quality of the size of the image?
I would suggest Gem as a good way of getting lots of video data onto the screen without fancy filters or pixel effects.
for codecs I would experiment, but like I said I'm pretty DV is limited to video resolution (NTSC or PAL).
Try 9 160x120 video clips and see how well that works.
You may need to spread them clips over multiple drives (which for you means external firewire) to get the right disk bandwidth.
jpeg-codec is a good start since it sounds like you are interested in some frame accuracy...
Good luck.
b.
Paul Sellis wrote:
Thank you for your answers Ben and Mathieu.
*** 4 nov. 05 at 14:44, B. Bogart wrote :
How many projectors?
for this project only 1. But I'd like to learn a software which can synchronize more (lets say 3 or 4…).
DV codec (I think) is only ever 720x480 NTSC, can't be downgraded, you would need to encode in a different format to get a different size. So what codec, what size?
It's a DV Pal (so 720x576) downgraded at 33%. I did it (and the hole sequence…) in Flash and ActionScript with the new Flash video codec. The animation works fine. The only problem is that I am obliged to use external video (not embeded) so with Flash I must use FLV. And the quality seems not to be sufficient for video projections. In this case, I don't know if it's possible to do each of these 9 movies with no compression (I don't think so with my laptop…). Which codec would you recommand to me ?
Interactive video or just video playback?
In this case it would be just video playback
What HW are you planning to use?
My Apple G4 PowerBook 1,25GHz (???…)
I would not suggest jitter for such a project as far as I imagine putting straight video up... softVNS would be be my second suggestion after pd/Gem Linux/OSX.
I don't know "soft VNS"… Is there a kind of "reference chart" where abilities and weakness of each solution is displayed. it seems to be a kind of maze for me now… :-((
Performance or installation?
In this case an installation. But I have opportunities to work for performances… I'd like to learn a soft (Max/MSP, PD,…) which could be great for all this… (doesn't seems to be the case…)
How long will it run?
Up to 9 minutes. Looping. Each movie begins at a random point between the begining and the end of its duration. It will be placed in a place choosen between 9 possible places (next between the 8 remaining places, and so on…). Everyboby plays until the end and wait x seconds after the last movie has finished. Then the whole thing loops.
Video playback or seeking?
Video playback not streaming (was it what you were talking about ?)
I'm quite lost with the possibilities of Max/MSP, PD (or soft VNS…). I don't even know if that's possible to do that kind of things. I only know that it works fine in Flash with Actionscript…
*** 4 nov. 05 at 18:52, Mathieu Bouchard wrote :
If you are going to do any effects on those videos in realtime you should say what you want to do because Gem differs very much from Jitter.
No effects in realtime on these videos. Only playback…
Your advises are more than welcome. ;-))
PAul
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Hello
Could anybody address me to the download page of the OSC objects for
PD? Is there any version running under MacOS?
http://iem.at/pd/pdb/query.html?all=y&alb=y&qry=osc points to http:// barely.a.live.fm/pd/ ... it seems this link doesn't work anymore.
Thank you so much.
Jose Manuel
Hi,
It should be included in Hans's installers, of which a new version will be out soon. you can just copy the OSC.pd_darwin out of that installer and put it in yours.
Otherwise it is also in the pixelTANGO installer:
http://tot.sat.qc.ca/down/pixeltango/binaries/PixelTANGO-v0.3.3G4.tgz
b/
Hello
Could anybody address me to the download page of the OSC objects for PD? Is there any version running under MacOS?
http://iem.at/pd/pdb/query.html?all=y&alb=y&qry=osc points to http:// barely.a.live.fm/pd/ ... it seems this link doesn't work anymore.
Thank you so much.
Jose Manuel_______________________________________________ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
On Nov 21, 2005, at 1:05 PM, jose manuel berenguer alarcon wrote:
Could anybody address me to the download page of the OSC objects
for PD? Is there any version running under MacOS?http://iem.at/pd/pdb/query.html?all=y&alb=y&qry=osc points to
http://barely.a.live.fm/pd/ ... it seems this link doesn't work
anymore.
...you can either compile it yourself from the externals/OSCx source,
or use one of the app packages, all of which include it...
james
Thank you so much, Ben and James, for your suggestions.
El 21/11/2005, a las 19:55, james tittle escribió:
On Nov 21, 2005, at 1:05 PM, jose manuel berenguer alarcon wrote:
Could anybody address me to the download page of the OSC objects
for PD? Is there any version running under MacOS?http://iem.at/pd/pdb/query.html?all=y&alb=y&qry=osc points to
http://barely.a.live.fm/pd/ ... it seems this link doesn't work
anymore....you can either compile it yourself from the externals/OSCx
source, or use one of the app packages, all of which include it...james
Yes, this is what I did. Anyway, afterwords, I discovered a compiled
version here :
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/pure-data/pd-OSC-20020928- OSX.tar.gz?download
Jose Manuel
Jose Manuel Berenguer jmbeal@telefonica.net +34932857046 696538403 jmberenguer@cccb.org +34933064128 http://ocaos.cccb.org/jmb/index.html Sonoscop/Orquesta del Caos. CCCB. Montalegre, 5. 08001 Barcelona. Spain
On Nov 22, 2005, at 10:31 AM, jose manuel berenguer alarcon wrote:
Thank you so much, Ben and James, for your suggestions.
El 21/11/2005, a las 19:55, james tittle escribió:
On Nov 21, 2005, at 1:05 PM, jose manuel berenguer alarcon wrote:
Could anybody address me to the download page of the OSC objects for
PD? Is there any version running under MacOS?http://iem.at/pd/pdb/query.html?all=y&alb=y&qry=osc points to
http://barely.a.live.fm/pd/ ... it seems this link doesn't work
anymore....you can either compile it yourself from the externals/OSCx source,
or use one of the app packages, all of which include it...james
Yes, this is what I did. Anyway, afterwords, I discovered a compiled
version here :http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/pure-data/pd-OSC-20020928- OSX.tar.gz?download
That's a very old version. A current version in included in the
Pd-extended.app builds.
.hc
Jose Manuel
Jose Manuel Berenguer jmbeal@telefonica.net +34932857046 696538403 jmberenguer@cccb.org +34933064128 http://ocaos.cccb.org/jmb/index.html Sonoscop/Orquesta del Caos. CCCB. Montalegre, 5. 08001 Barcelona. Spain
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
"Looking at things from a more basic level, you can come up with a more
direct solution... It may sound small in theory, but it in practice, it
can change entire economies."
- Amy Smith
On Fri, 4 Nov 2005, Paul Sellis wrote:
Le 3 nov. 05 à 16:18, Max Neupert a écrit :
- Pure Data is "more powerfull" than Max/MSP for video ?
you can't ask this question like this. you rather could compare Gem and Jitter...
Yes you are right. Please could someone tell me about Gem vs Jitter ? In general and in my purpose : In my project, I'd like to make a video projection composed yb up to 9 resized (downscaled) DV movies.
This depends much more upon the video decoders than on Gem or Jitter. On Linux you don't have the original Apple Quicktime. There are compatible decoders but they have some limitations.
If you are going to do any effects on those videos in realtime you should say what you want to do because Gem differs very much from Jitter.
There are also other video systems available for Pd, namely GridFlow and PDP.
Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801 - http://artengine.ca/matju Freelance Digital Arts Engineer, Montréal QC Canada
-
B. Bogart -
chris clepper -
Hans-Christoph Steiner -
james tittle -
jose manuel berenguer alarcon -
Mathieu Bouchard -
Max Neupert -
Paul Sellis