On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:40:59 +0100 "Lukasz Jastrzebski" luke.jastrzebski@gmail.com wrote:
I think the ctrl + 1 (2, 3...) shortcut not so good way. And I don't see any reason not to make inserting objects (or text in objects) more intuitive, usable, ergonomic. Not only this is an unpleasant two-fingered combination, but also you have to be careful both with typing and clicking at one time.
Depends on how big your hands are. My span (Keyboard player) makes up to CTRL+6 comfortable, but 7, 8, 9 and 0 are painful. Espacially after certain other key sequences that leave the thumb away from home position.
It's good to see this being discussed in a more international context, I also found great problems with AWERTY keyboards in Poitiers recently, I don't know how the Belgiums and French suffer such torture with some frequent key combos.
How about using F-keys (if any)? or num block?
These can be awkward from a programming POV and have reserved functions in some OS setups. For reasons you elaborate on yourself I think it's best to use the minimal laptop keyboard as as a model.
In the end, the best solution may be a user configurable key bindings file, with fallback to defaults.
On the whole I have grown used to Pd GUI and like it.
As an aside, a slightly OT observation (that we can't really do anything about) is the large number of students who have a problem finding the tilde key. One guy who has a German MacBook needed to ask on forums for a long time before someone told him the magic key combo to get tilde (crazy Apple thoughtlessness).
Hallo, Andy Farnell hat gesagt: // Andy Farnell wrote:
Depends on how big your hands are. My span (Keyboard player) makes up to CTRL+6 comfortable, but 7, 8, 9 and 0 are painful.
One hint for Linux users: You can map the Capslock-key to be control easily with this in xorg.conf:
Section "InputDevice" ... Option "XkbOptions" "ctrl:nocaps" ... EndSection
This makes the Ctl-key-combinations in all apps much more comfortable - and who needs capslock anyway?
It's possible on Windows with some registry magic as well, probably also on OS-X.
Ciao
Frank
On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 1:16 AM, Frank Barknecht fbar@footils.org wrote:
Hallo, Andy Farnell hat gesagt: // Andy Farnell wrote:
Depends on how big your hands are. My span (Keyboard player) makes up to CTRL+6 comfortable, but 7, 8, 9 and 0 are painful.
One hint for Linux users: You can map the Capslock-key to be control easily with this in xorg.conf:
Section "InputDevice" ... Option "XkbOptions" "ctrl:nocaps" ... EndSection
This makes the Ctl-key-combinations in all apps much more comfortable - and who needs capslock anyway?
It's possible on Windows with some registry magic as well, probably also on OS-X.
With Ubuntu and OS-X there are even easy-peasy GUI settings for it. :-) Ubuntu it's System -> Preferences -> Keyboard -> Layouts -> "Other Options" -> "Ctrl Key Position". Can't remember exactly where it is in OS-X, but I remember it being fairly easy to find.
On Jan 5, 2009, at 6:16 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo, Andy Farnell hat gesagt: // Andy Farnell wrote:
Depends on how big your hands are. My span (Keyboard player) makes up to CTRL+6 comfortable, but 7, 8, 9 and 0 are painful.
One hint for Linux users: You can map the Capslock-key to be control easily with this in xorg.conf:
Section "InputDevice" ... Option "XkbOptions" "ctrl:nocaps" ... EndSection
This makes the Ctl-key-combinations in all apps much more
comfortable - and who needs capslock anyway?It's possible on Windows with some registry magic as well, probably also on OS-X.
On Mac OS X , you can do this in the Keyboard & Mouse preference
panel, in the "Modifier Keys..." button.
.hc
Ciao
Frank
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Hey all,
There are a lot of good ideas in this thread, and it would be great if
people try them out in a flexible manner to see what works. This is a
problem that needs to be tackled as a whole, I think things will get
ugly fast new behaviors are tacked on here and there.
So I suggest exposing the functions for these behaviors and making it
really easy for people to try their own key bindings. Then we can
find all the conflicts and issues and come up with something that
works well as a whole.
.hc
On Jan 5, 2009, at 8:27 AM, Andy Farnell wrote:
On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:40:59 +0100 "Lukasz Jastrzebski" luke.jastrzebski@gmail.com wrote:
I think the ctrl + 1 (2, 3...) shortcut not so good way. And I don't see any reason not to make inserting objects (or text in objects)
more intuitive, usable, ergonomic. Not only this is an unpleasant two-fingered combination, but also you have to be careful both with typing and clicking at one time.Depends on how big your hands are. My span (Keyboard player) makes up to CTRL+6 comfortable, but 7, 8, 9 and 0 are painful. Espacially after certain other key sequences that leave the thumb away from home position.
It's good to see this being discussed in a more international context, I also found great problems with AWERTY keyboards in Poitiers recently, I don't know how the Belgiums and French suffer such torture with some frequent key combos.
How about using F-keys (if any)? or num block?
These can be awkward from a programming POV and have reserved functions in some OS setups. For reasons you elaborate on yourself I think it's best to use the minimal laptop keyboard as as a model.
In the end, the best solution may be a user configurable key bindings file, with fallback to defaults.
On the whole I have grown used to Pd GUI and like it.
As an aside, a slightly OT observation (that we can't really do anything about) is the large number of students who have a problem finding the tilde key. One guy who has a German MacBook needed to ask on forums for a long time before someone told him the magic key combo to get tilde (crazy Apple thoughtlessness).
-- Use the source
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Hans-Christoph Steiner