Hi list,
Can anyone tell me how to calculate the 'shear' value (when using [shearYX] in Gem) from an angle (degrees or radians, I don't mind)?
X Ed
Metastudio 3 for Pure Data - Free download at: http://sharktracks.co.uk/puredata
Hi Ed,
On 31/08/10 15:31, Ed Kelly wrote:
Can anyone tell me how to calculate the 'shear' value (when using [shearYX] in Gem) from an angle (degrees or radians, I don't mind)?
This is just a guess, for one direction of shear in 2D space:
shear = tan(angle) (the angle marked ** in the ascii diagram below)
| __________ |**/ / | / / |/_________/
(because tan(0) = 0, tan(45deg) = 1, tan(90deg) = inf)
Otherwise try drawing triangles and doing some trigonometry (in a right-angle triangle: sin=opposite/diagonal cos=adjacent/diagonal tan=opposite/adjacent )
Claude
Thanks for unlocking my broken trig head.
This should really be in the documentation. The angle is in radians. Patch enclosed...
Best, Ed
Metastudio 3 for Pure Data - Free download at: http://sharktracks.co.uk/puredata
----- Original Message ---- From: Claude Heiland-Allen claudiusmaximus@goto10.org To: Ed Kelly morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk Cc: PD List pd-list@iem.at Sent: Wed, 1 September, 2010 1:09:43 Subject: Re: [PD] GEM Shear / angle relationship
Hi Ed,
On 31/08/10 15:31, Ed Kelly wrote:
Can anyone tell me how to calculate the 'shear' value (when using [shearYX] in Gem) from an angle (degrees or radians, I don't mind)?
This is just a guess, for one direction of shear in 2D space:
shear = tan(angle) (the angle marked ** in the ascii diagram below)
| __________ |**/ / | / / |/_________/
(because tan(0) = 0, tan(45deg) = 1, tan(90deg) = inf)
Otherwise try drawing triangles and doing some trigonometry (in a right-angle triangle: sin=opposite/diagonal cos=adjacent/diagonal tan=opposite/adjacent )
Claude -- http://claudiusmaximus.goto10.org
Le 01/09/2010 10:37, Ed Kelly a écrit :
Thanks for unlocking my broken trig head.
This should really be in the documentation. The angle is in radians. Patch enclosed...
no, the angle is not in radian. in fact, shear is a non rotational space distortion, there is no angle...
shear distord 1 direction in relation to the coordinate on a 2nd direction. As Claude explain, you can calculate an angle from this distortion, based on 2 dimension. The tan object is in radian. that's the only thing in radian.
Cyrille
Best, Ed
Metastudio 3 for Pure Data - Free download at: http://sharktracks.co.uk/puredata
----- Original Message ---- From: Claude Heiland-Allenclaudiusmaximus@goto10.org To: Ed Kellymorph_2016@yahoo.co.uk Cc: PD Listpd-list@iem.at Sent: Wed, 1 September, 2010 1:09:43 Subject: Re: [PD] GEM Shear / angle relationship
Hi Ed,
On 31/08/10 15:31, Ed Kelly wrote:
Can anyone tell me how to calculate the 'shear' value (when using [shearYX] in Gem) from an angle (degrees or radians, I don't mind)?
This is just a guess, for one direction of shear in 2D space:
shear = tan(angle) (the angle marked ** in the ascii diagram below)
| __________ |**/ / | / / |/_________/
(because tan(0) = 0, tan(45deg) = 1, tan(90deg) = inf)
Otherwise try drawing triangles and doing some trigonometry (in a right-angle triangle: sin=opposite/diagonal cos=adjacent/diagonal tan=opposite/adjacent )
Claude -- http://claudiusmaximus.goto10.org
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Yes, that's what I meant to say. Radians is only for the [tan], but it's quite useful elsewhere. I have been feeling guilty all day, for the archives being wrong-headed :) from me.
I have a nice trig patch now :) maybe I should submit a good trig patch to GEM documentation. Perhaps we could help - since many artists struggle with this (my math teacher at school was really intimidating!)
But, I have noticed a sinusoidal error with the graphics in my patch. So, here is the real thing!
It's my notation system. I was trying to keep it a secret until it is entirely ready, but open source projects demand open-source solutions, so here's the current prototype. Notice that when you move the second note up and down, there is a sinusoidal error in the [shearYX] -ed half-beam sheared rectangles. Is there any way to calculate this and compensate for it? I must have missed something...
...Classical players can be quite particular about such issues! I want it to look good.
PS - For the Brazilians I showed this to, I love you and will deliver this soon.
X Ed Metastudio 3 for Pure Data - Free download at: http://sharktracks.co.uk/puredata
----- Original Message ---- From: cyrille henry ch@chnry.net To: Ed Kelly morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Claude Heiland-Allen claudiusmaximus@goto10.org; PD List pd-list@iem.at Sent: Wed, 1 September, 2010 20:44:56 Subject: Re: [PD] GEM Shear / angle relationship
Le 01/09/2010 10:37, Ed Kelly a écrit :
Thanks for unlocking my broken trig head.
This should really be in the documentation. The angle is in radians. Patch enclosed...
no, the angle is not in radian. in fact, shear is a non rotational space distortion, there is no angle...
shear distord 1 direction in relation to the coordinate on a 2nd direction. As Claude explain, you can calculate an angle from this distortion, based on 2 dimension. The tan object is in radian. that's the only thing in radian.
Cyrille
Best, Ed
Metastudio 3 for Pure Data - Free download at: http://sharktracks.co.uk/puredata
----- Original Message ---- From: Claude Heiland-Allenclaudiusmaximus@goto10.org To: Ed Kellymorph_2016@yahoo.co.uk Cc: PD Listpd-list@iem.at Sent: Wed, 1 September, 2010 1:09:43 Subject: Re: [PD] GEM Shear / angle relationship
Hi Ed,
On 31/08/10 15:31, Ed Kelly wrote:
Can anyone tell me how to calculate the 'shear' value (when using [shearYX]
in
Gem) from an angle (degrees or radians, I don't mind)?
This is just a guess, for one direction of shear in 2D space:
shear = tan(angle) (the angle marked ** in the ascii diagram below)
| __________ |**/ / | / / |/_________/
(because tan(0) = 0, tan(45deg) = 1, tan(90deg) = inf)
Otherwise try drawing triangles and doing some trigonometry (in a right-angle triangle: sin=opposite/diagonal cos=adjacent/diagonal tan=opposite/adjacent )
Claude -- http://claudiusmaximus.goto10.org
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Hi Ed!
Thanks for sharing this patch, i remember when you did show this project. Here is missing [0_maker_1] abstraction in the package. Cheers, Cristiano
On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 8:06 PM, Ed Kelly morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Yes, that's what I meant to say. Radians is only for the [tan], but it's quite useful elsewhere. I have been feeling guilty all day, for the archives being wrong-headed :) from me.
I have a nice trig patch now :) maybe I should submit a good trig patch to GEM documentation. Perhaps we could help - since many artists struggle with this (my math teacher at school was really intimidating!)
But, I have noticed a sinusoidal error with the graphics in my patch. So, here is the real thing!
It's my notation system. I was trying to keep it a secret until it is entirely ready, but open source projects demand open-source solutions, so here's the current prototype. Notice that when you move the second note up and down, there is a sinusoidal error in the [shearYX] -ed half-beam sheared rectangles. Is there any way to calculate this and compensate for it? I must have missed something...
...Classical players can be quite particular about such issues! I want it to look good.
PS - For the Brazilians I showed this to, I love you and will deliver this soon.
X Ed Metastudio 3 for Pure Data - Free download at: http://sharktracks.co.uk/puredata
----- Original Message ---- From: cyrille henry ch@chnry.net To: Ed Kelly morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Claude Heiland-Allen claudiusmaximus@goto10.org; PD List < pd-list@iem.at> Sent: Wed, 1 September, 2010 20:44:56 Subject: Re: [PD] GEM Shear / angle relationship
Le 01/09/2010 10:37, Ed Kelly a écrit :
Thanks for unlocking my broken trig head.
This should really be in the documentation. The angle is in radians.
Patch
enclosed...
no, the angle is not in radian. in fact, shear is a non rotational space distortion, there is no angle...
shear distord 1 direction in relation to the coordinate on a 2nd direction. As Claude explain, you can calculate an angle from this distortion, based on 2 dimension. The tan object is in radian. that's the only thing in radian.
Cyrille
Best, Ed
Metastudio 3 for Pure Data - Free download at: http://sharktracks.co.uk/puredata
----- Original Message ---- From: Claude Heiland-Allenclaudiusmaximus@goto10.org To: Ed Kellymorph_2016@yahoo.co.uk Cc: PD Listpd-list@iem.at Sent: Wed, 1 September, 2010 1:09:43 Subject: Re: [PD] GEM Shear / angle relationship
Hi Ed,
On 31/08/10 15:31, Ed Kelly wrote:
Can anyone tell me how to calculate the 'shear' value (when using
[shearYX] in
Gem) from an angle (degrees or radians, I don't mind)?
This is just a guess, for one direction of shear in 2D space:
shear = tan(angle) (the angle marked ** in the ascii diagram below)
| __________ |**/ / | / / |/_________/
(because tan(0) = 0, tan(45deg) = 1, tan(90deg) = inf)
Otherwise try drawing triangles and doing some trigonometry (in a right-angle triangle: sin=opposite/diagonal cos=adjacent/diagonal tan=opposite/adjacent )
Claude -- http://claudiusmaximus.goto10.org
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
On Thu, 2 Sep 2010, cristiano figueiró wrote:
Thanks for sharing this patch, i remember when you did show this project. Here is missing [0_maker_1] abstraction in the package.
I see no such attachment in your last mail.
| Mathieu Bouchard ------------------------------ Villeray, Montréal, QC
On Sun, 5 Sep 2010, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
On Thu, 2 Sep 2010, cristiano figueiró wrote:
Thanks for sharing this patch, i remember when you did show this project. Here is missing [0_maker_1] abstraction in the package.
I see no such attachment in your last mail.
Never mind, I misunderstood you.
| Mathieu Bouchard ------------------------------ Villeray, Montréal, QC
On Wed, 1 Sep 2010, Ed Kelly wrote:
But, I have noticed a sinusoidal error with the graphics in my patch. So, here is the real thing!
[abs] just before [pow 2] is completely useless.
using pow(opposite/hypotenuse,2) as an angle to [tan] doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
what you need there is just opposite/adjacent, no square, no tan. the opposite/adjacent is already the tangent of an angle, and you don't need make that angle explicit at all.
even if you just compute that ratio with [/] and [swap], there is still a sign error in half of the cases (do you know how to fix this ?).
why do you need to shear two rectangles, instead of shearing a single, longer one ?
| Mathieu Bouchard ------------------------------ Villeray, Montréal, QC
Le dimanche 05 septembre 2010 à 13:27 -0400, Mathieu Bouchard a écrit :
On Wed, 1 Sep 2010, Ed Kelly wrote:
But, I have noticed a sinusoidal error with the graphics in my patch. So, here is the real thing!
- [abs] just before [pow 2] is completely useless.
Wrong, that depend : float -2 -> pow 2 doesn't give 4 but 0. So [abs] can be useful to get 4. I can' open the .rar archive of Ed, therefore i can't test to see if you get negative value. ++
Jack
using pow(opposite/hypotenuse,2) as an angle to [tan] doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
what you need there is just opposite/adjacent, no square, no tan. the opposite/adjacent is already the tangent of an angle, and you don't need make that angle explicit at all.
even if you just compute that ratio with [/] and [swap], there is still a sign error in half of the cases (do you know how to fix this ?).
why do you need to shear two rectangles, instead of shearing a single, longer one ?
| Mathieu Bouchard ------------------------------ Villeray, Montréal, QC _______________________________________________ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
On Sun, 5 Sep 2010, Jack wrote:
- [abs] just before [pow 2] is completely useless.
Wrong, that depend : float -2 -> pow 2 doesn't give 4 but 0. So [abs] can be useful to get 4.
right. [pow] really sucks... however, [expr pow($f1,2)] does it correctly... and so does [t a a] [*].
| Mathieu Bouchard ------------------------------ Villeray, Montréal, QC
Oh crap, I was quite baffled by something I should have already known, but my trigonometry is quite rusty. It's been a long time since I went to school...
[abs] before [pow] is necessary because [pow] only works with positive numbers. However, you're right, I don't need that. Just tangent = opposite / adjacent
- what you need there is just opposite/adjacent, no square, no tan.
the opposite/adjacent is already the tangent of an angle, and you don't need make that angle explicit at all.
You're right of course. Silly me - I knew that, but my trig is rusty!
- why do you need to shear two rectangles, instead of shearing a single,
longer one ?
Because if you have an 8th note connected to a 16th note then you need one and a half sheared rectangles, but in order to look right they must be parallel. This way I can create a single [beam] object that creates single, double, etc beams joined together in beamed groups. Otherwise I can only have four 16th notes, two 8th notes, eight 32nd notes etc. See enclosed example.
X ed
Metastudio 3 for Pure Data - Free download at: http://sharktracks.co.uk/puredata
----- Original Message ---- From: Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca To: Jack jack@rybn.org Cc: Ed Kelly morph_2016@yahoo.co.uk; PD List pd-list@iem.at; cyrille henry ch@chnry.net Sent: Sun, 5 September, 2010 18:43:37 Subject: Re: [PD] GEM Shear / angle relationship - sinusoidal error
On Sun, 5 Sep 2010, Jack wrote:
- [abs] just before [pow 2] is completely useless.
Wrong, that depend : float -2 -> pow 2 doesn't give 4 but 0. So [abs] can be useful to get 4.
right. [pow] really sucks... however, [expr pow($f1,2)] does it correctly... and so does [t a a] [*].
| Mathieu Bouchard ------------------------------ Villeray, Montréal, QC
On Tue, 7 Sep 2010, Ed Kelly wrote:
You're right of course. Silly me - I knew that, but my trig is rusty!
Because if you have an 8th note connected to a 16th note then you need one and a half sheared rectangles, but in order to look right they must be parallel.
You're right of course. Silly me - in my case, it's the solfège that is rusty. (I never really composed anything with that notation... I preferred "trackers")
| Mathieu Bouchard ------------------------------ Villeray, Montréal, QC
-
Claude Heiland-Allen -
cristiano figueiró -
cyrille henry -
Ed Kelly -
Jack -
Mathieu Bouchard