maybe easier to go the granular route than mess about with fft. i just did a quick search for 'realtime timestretch' and a lot of people are saying that the granular based patches/plugins are good.

makes sense too....cos if you use a phase vocoder approach, you will have to speed thru the audio to get back from a delayed signal to a realtime one...but with granular, you can just merge grainclouds.

Thanks a lot to all.

especially for putting my idea somewhere between Albert Einstein and
Freddy Mercury ;-)

well....i'll post my results

Luigi

Am 15.05.2007 um 17:12 schrieb Damian Stewart:

Luigi Rensinghoff wrote:

...

Thats exactly what i mean.. a variable realtime-time-expansion ;-)

i had a pretty thorough dig through I07.phase.vocoder a few months
back. what you'd basically need to do is something along the lines
of using [tabwrite~] to write the audio signal in to $0-sample,
banging it at the end of the table to make it start recording from
the beginning again. you'd also need something monitoring the
current position (use [r location] to receive the current
position), making it jump back to the start when it hit the end.

attached is my [d-pvocst~] which is a hacked up version of the help
version that a) plays in stereo (with additional logic for dealing
with mono files) and b) automatically loops between adjustable
start and end sample numbers in the input arrays. it should be
fairly easy to rig it up to tabwrite~ a live audio stream in to $0- sample-l and $0-sample-r in the way i described above.

enjoy!

-- Damian Stewart

f r e y live music with machines http://www.frey.co.nz http://www.myspace.com/freyed #N canvas 50 31 1101 773 12; #X floatatom 486 370 5 0 0 0 - #0-transpo-set -; #X floatatom 164 424 3 0 0 0 - #0-speed-set -; #X floatatom 52 426 7 0 0 0 - #0-location-set -; #X text 161 405 hundredths; #X text 490 335 in cents; #X text 415 362 normal; #N canvas 0 110 569 458 hann-window 0; #N canvas 0 22 450 300 (subpatch) 0; #X array $0-hann 2048 float 0; #X coords 0 1 2047 0 300 100 1; #X restore 82 311 graph; #X obj 378 165 osc~; #X obj 378 190 *~ -0.5; #X obj 378 214 +~ 0.5; #X obj 331 247 tabwrite~ $0-hann; #X obj 38 173 /; #X obj 127 142 samplerate~; #X obj 177 204 swap; #X obj 177 228 /; #X obj 49 201 * 1000; #X obj 38 115 t f b f; #X msg 173 92 resize $1; #X obj 173 116 s $0-hann; #X msg 382 130 0; #X obj 330 131 t f b; #X text 15 8 calculate Hann window table (variable window size) and constants window-hz (fundamental frequency of analysis) , window-sec and window-msec (analysis window size in seconds and msec).; 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#X msg 371 361 100; #X msg 371 383 20; #X text 412 338 contract; #X text 416 383 expand; #X text 491 318 detune; #X text 52 371 location; #X text 49 387 (stops; #X text 54 402 motion); #X text 162 389 motion in; #X text 234 487 read input sound; #X text 103 7 PHASE VOCODER FOR TIME STETCHING AND CONTRACTION; #X text 636 518 length , msec; #X floatatom 604 460 5 0 0 0 - #0-window-size -; #X msg 604 348 512; #X msg 604 370 1024; #X msg 604 392 2048; #X msg 604 414 4096; #X text 604 315 window size ,; #X text 604 330 samples; #X text 645 347 <- set; #X text 97 347 ------- location controls -------; #X text 658 452 (check); #X text 21 35 This patch takes a sound , analyzes windows in it both for channel magnitude and for phase precession in each channel
(compared to another operlapping window). The real-time output recreates the same magnitudes and phase precession , althought the phases
themselves are in general different. You can control either the location or its motion (setting location stops motion , while setting a non-zero
motion causes the location to change automatically). "Rewind" goes back to the beginning. You can use different window sizes (use the message boxes - the number box is for readout). The "lock" feature forces
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everything was zero heretofore.; #X text 659 433 Now take the FT of the forward window and multiply it by the unit complex number from above. The magnitude will be that of the forward window and the phase will be the previous output phase plus the phase difference between the two analysis windows -- except that if "lock" is on , they will be modified to agree progressively better with the inter-channel phase relationships of the input.; #X text 621 252 If "lock" is on , encourage neighboring channels to stay in phase by adding the two neighboring complex amplitudes. The result will tend toward the channel with the strongest amplitude. If the phase relationships between channels in the output and those in the input are in parallel , then neighboring channels of the quotient will all have the same phase and this will not change any phases.
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#X restore 436 546 pd phase-tables; #X obj 17 554 outlet~; #X obj 537 30 inlet; #X obj 121 558 outlet~; #X msg 376 422 -100; #X obj 666 254 s $0-rewind; #X msg 666 226 bang; #N canvas 0 22 441 273 startend 0; #X obj 33 28 inlet; #X obj 177 25 inlet; #X obj 212 119 s $0-endpoint; #X obj 33 115 moses; #X obj 68 50 r $0-endpoint; #X obj 33 177 s $0-startpoint; #X obj 177 93 moses; #X obj 196 62 r $0-startpoint; #X text 104 142 ensure startpoint is < endpoint; #X connect 0 0 3 0; #X connect 1 0 6 0; #X connect 3 0 5 0; #X connect 4 0 3 1; #X connect 6 1 2 0; #X connect 7 0 6 1; #X restore 723 300 pd startend; #X obj 1004 26 inlet; #X obj 998 239 s $0-auto; #X text 1007 6 speed; #X obj 750 264 print start; #X obj 825 221 s $0-transpo; #X obj 611 186 route read rewind start end transpose lock; #X msg 632 157 read d:/music/samples/godspeed/guitarnotes.wav 44100 mono; #X msg 603 137 read d:/music/samples/soundisland/ocean.wav; #X text 612 21 rewind; #X text 758 45 loops between start and end; #X text 609 86 lock 1|0; #X text 610 70 transpose <semitones>; #X text 613 53 end <samplenum>; #X text 615 35 start <samplenum>; #X text 613 106 <number> - start playing at that speed; #X text 538 6 control:; #X text 611 6 read <filename> [samplerate] [mono]; #X connect 0 0 45 0; #X connect 1 0 48 0; #X connect 2 0 49 0; #X connect 9 0 42 0; #X connect 10 0 42 0; #X connect 11 0 42 0; #X connect 12 0 7 0; #X connect 14 0 44 0; #X connect 15 0 47 0; #X connect 16 0 46 0; #X connect 17 0 46 0; #X connect 18 0 46 0; #X connect 30 0 43 0; #X connect 31 0 43 0; #X connect 32 0 43 0; #X connect 33 0 43 0; #X connect 50 0 52 0; #X connect 50 1 54 0; #X connect 53 0 64 0; #X connect 55 0 46 0; #X connect 57 0 56 0; #X connect 59 0 60 0; #X connect 64 0 42 0; #X connect 64 1 57 0; #X connect 64 2 58 0; #X connect 64 2 62 0; #X connect 64 3 58 1; #X connect 64 4 63 0; #X connect 64 5 14 0; #X connect 64 6 60 0; #X connect 65 0 64 0; #X connect 66 0 64 0;

hard off wrote:

could you post that again as an attachment? my email gives me > signs before every line, so ti can't make it into a pd patch.

interesting.

try this.

Hi list...

i am working on this right now. And since i never really had a deep
look into all the tabread-thingies, some questions came up.

Just to give you a quick sketch of my approach:

I used the I07-patch and i am working with two of them (each 1
second) so i can swap from one to another.

I have two 8 second tables that record the live signal from a vd~.

So here my questions, just in case someone found a solution for that
(i am sure you did ;-) )

1. How to avoid clicks when the whole contents of a table is replaced/

updated. I tried something with vline....are there some "zero- crossing" modules for that ?

2. It seems to be possible to replace the contents of a table (the

beginning) while playing the later contents of it. Is it possible to
replace just a portion of a table without overwriting until the end ?

  the whole patch becomes somewhat unstable because of the  

graphics-display, any idea for a workaround ?

3. if i have a quite fast running number (index). "select" seems to

be to slow or unstable in any way quite unreliable. i made a
workaround with moses and ">" ...not very elegant.

after cleaning up i will post the patch

bye luigi

Luigi Rensinghoff wrote:

1. How to avoid clicks when the whole contents of a table is replaced/

updated. I tried something with vline....are there some "zero- crossing" modules for that ?

Fade playback volume to zero, do the switch, fade playback volume up. Vary curve to suit the sound, but that's the general approach I think.

A variation uses two tables played back simultaneously, staggered like:

aAa aAa aAa aAa ... . bBb bBb bBb bBb ...

with volume envelopes such that the total volume is constant. I think this is used in a delay-based pitchshifting example in the docs.

2. It seems to be possible to replace the contents of a table (the

beginning) while playing the later contents of it. Is it possible to
replace just a portion of a table without overwriting until the end ?

Yes, see [tabwrite~] help (the "stop" message in particular).

  the whole patch becomes somewhat unstable because of the  

graphics-display, any idea for a workaround ?

Use [table] instead of a graphical array.

3. if i have a quite fast running number (index). "select" seems to

be to slow or unstable in any way quite unreliable. i made a
workaround with moses and ">" ...not very elegant.

This is a limitation of floating point arithmetic, once you go past a certain size absolute precision becomes less, so integers are missing (ie, there is a floating point number where a + 1 => a, this might also extend to "for any given b, you can find an a such that a + b => a", but I'm not sure).

The solution / workaround is to use chained counters all counting with [+ 1]-[mod n]-[select 0], much like a clock uses seconds, minutes, hours, etc.

Either that or recompile Pd to use double-precision floats, which isn't trivial, and would only postpone the issue (although by a great deal).

Claude

http://claudiusmaximus.goto10.org