I talked to Hans about this a bit. In essence, it involves bringing in the new pd vanilla source and making sure the Pd-extended additions/modifications aren't lost. With the updates/cleanups to the tcl/tk sources a few years ago (great work Hans et al!), it should be alot easier than the previous extended releases. But still, *easy* or not, it involves time.
On Sep 21, 2014, at 6:00 AM, pd-list-request@lists.iem.at wrote:
From: Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PD] [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: Updated pd-extended Date: September 20, 2014 at 5:02:59 PM EDT To: Billy Stiltner billy.stiltner@gmail.com Cc: "pd-list@lists.iem.at" pd-list@lists.iem.at
I wish I knew something about coding to help out with its development :P I do care a lot about it though and wish I could help in some other way.
I do see a few problems with extended, but they're basically related to some of the externals and libraries that sometimes do not work as they should, have bad and messy help files and are sometimes redundanct. If welcome, I could help sharing my thoughts and two cents about that, but I realize those are not actual bug fixes regarding the code, so it's not a priority on its to do list and issues for being updated to another release.
Anyway, while were at it, what kind of work exactly do you mean someone would have to do? I suppose there is a great list of bug fixes just to keep it basically what it is. Given the context, I'm not assuming any big to do list for some new features agenda. But besidesthe bug fixes, how hard is it for someone to just update to the latest vanilla core?
Well, since Pd is an open source project that relies on community effort, and this is the list of its main developers and users, I guess this is the place to talk about a collaboration and see if we can get Pd-extended's development to continue.
I'd to help in any way I can.
Cheers
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
it involves time
... or money.
maybe we revisit the kickstarter (or something else) idea brought forth by jonathon a few years ago and just pay someone to do it. to me it seems like
- none of us really have any money (im just assuming here we are all poor
artists) and more importantly 2) none of us really have any time and those that do might not have the skills.
OR maybe we have another PDCon (remember that?) to get amped up and pump something out....
m
On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I talked to Hans about this a bit. In essence, it involves bringing in the new pd vanilla source and making sure the Pd-extended additions/modifications aren't lost. With the updates/cleanups to the tcl/tk sources a few years ago (great work Hans et al!), it should be alot easier than the previous extended releases. But still, *easy* or not, it involves time.
On Sep 21, 2014, at 6:00 AM, pd-list-request@lists.iem.at wrote:
*From: *Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com *Subject: **Re: [PD] [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: Updated pd-extended* *Date: *September 20, 2014 at 5:02:59 PM EDT *To: *Billy Stiltner billy.stiltner@gmail.com *Cc: *"pd-list@lists.iem.at" pd-list@lists.iem.at
I wish I knew something about coding to help out with its development :P I do care a lot about it though and wish I could help in some other way.
I do see a few problems with extended, but they're basically related to some of the externals and libraries that sometimes do not work as they should, have bad and messy help files and are sometimes redundanct. If welcome, I could help sharing my thoughts and two cents about that, but I realize those are not actual bug fixes regarding the code, so it's not a priority on its to do list and issues for being updated to another release.
Anyway, while were at it, what kind of work exactly do you mean someone would have to do? I suppose there is a great list of bug fixes just to keep it basically what it is. Given the context, I'm not assuming any big to do list for some new features agenda. But besidesthe bug fixes, how hard is it for someone to just update to the latest vanilla core?
Well, since Pd is an open source project that relies on community effort, and this is the list of its main developers and users, I guess this is the place to talk about a collaboration and see if we can get Pd-extended's development to continue.
I'd to help in any way I can.
Cheers
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Well, time & money are intertwined.
This is why I was talking about a Pd foundation/organization etc that could take donations from schools, organizations, poor artists etc and roll it into bounties or development support/residences. Pd has a pretty active user base but a much much smaller developer base so it makes things a bit harder since there is essentially more pressure on these smaller numbers of developers who already have limited time as it is.
I know a "foundation" is a huge word to throw around but it could literally be one place in the world, probably support by some university, that hosts people to work on aspects of Pd. We've already had people stepping up to help pay for airfare for the last few Pd meetups / patching circles etc, so that could be something similar.
Anyway, it's totally *doable* it always come back to who will do it and when.
On Sep 21, 2014, at 5:19 PM, me.grimm megrimm@gmail.com wrote:
it involves time
... or money.
maybe we revisit the kickstarter (or something else) idea brought forth by jonathon a few years ago and just pay someone to do it. to me it seems like 1) none of us really have any money (im just assuming here we are all poor artists) and more importantly 2) none of us really have any time and those that do might not have the skills.
OR maybe we have another PDCon (remember that?) to get amped up and pump something out....
m
On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote: I talked to Hans about this a bit. In essence, it involves bringing in the new pd vanilla source and making sure the Pd-extended additions/modifications aren't lost. With the updates/cleanups to the tcl/tk sources a few years ago (great work Hans et al!), it should be alot easier than the previous extended releases. But still, *easy* or not, it involves time.
On Sep 21, 2014, at 6:00 AM, pd-list-request@lists.iem.at wrote:
From: Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PD] [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: Updated pd-extended Date: September 20, 2014 at 5:02:59 PM EDT To: Billy Stiltner billy.stiltner@gmail.com Cc: "pd-list@lists.iem.at" pd-list@lists.iem.at
I wish I knew something about coding to help out with its development :P I do care a lot about it though and wish I could help in some other way.
I do see a few problems with extended, but they're basically related to some of the externals and libraries that sometimes do not work as they should, have bad and messy help files and are sometimes redundanct. If welcome, I could help sharing my thoughts and two cents about that, but I realize those are not actual bug fixes regarding the code, so it's not a priority on its to do list and issues for being updated to another release.
Anyway, while were at it, what kind of work exactly do you mean someone would have to do? I suppose there is a great list of bug fixes just to keep it basically what it is. Given the context, I'm not assuming any big to do list for some new features agenda. But besidesthe bug fixes, how hard is it for someone to just update to the latest vanilla core?
Well, since Pd is an open source project that relies on community effort, and this is the list of its main developers and users, I guess this is the place to talk about a collaboration and see if we can get Pd-extended's development to continue.
I'd to help in any way I can.
Cheers
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
-- ____________________ m.e.grimm | m.f.a | ed.m. megrimm@gmail.com _________________________________
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
On 09/21/2014 05:35 PM, Dan Wilcox wrote:
Well, time & money are intertwined.
This is why I was talking about a Pd foundation/organization etc that could take donations from schools, organizations, poor artists etc and roll it into bounties or development support/residences. Pd has a pretty active user base but a much much smaller developer base so it makes things a bit harder since there is essentially more pressure on these smaller numbers of developers who already have limited time as it is.
I know a "foundation" is a huge word to throw around but it could literally be one place in the world, probably support by some university, that hosts people to work on aspects of Pd. We've already had people stepping up to help pay for airfare for the last few Pd meetups / patching circles etc, so that could be something similar.
Anyway, it's totally *doable* it always come back to who will do it and when.
I'd be happy to help with something like this.
However, your description of the user/developer ratio doesn't ring true to me. There's actually a surplus of developers and development energy-- I count two implementations of presets in the last year or two (in Pd-l2ork and the Chocolate et Coffee lib) which are in addition to however many already exist on svn and the Pd forum.
Furthermore, we've got a flag to make a Qt window pop up when starting the most recent git version of Pd-l2ork. We'll incrementally be adding the functionality to create Qt canvas windows and draw patches in them side-by-side with a functioning tcl/tk gui.
-Jonathan
Hi,
Would do anything to finally include mtl abstractions to pd-extended.
I can build on Windows, Mac, Linux & the RPI.
Will try to poke Hans about the code diffs on #dataflow. Should we
(anyone interested in updating pd-extended) have a chat (irc, hangout,
whatever). I am sure Hans will be willing to gives 30 minutes to help
us help him.
Let's bang it.
Just follow this, and it'll be easy to get it included on all platforms: https://puredata.info/docs/developer/GettingIntoPdextended
.hc
puredata@11h11.com wrote:
Hi,
Would do anything to finally include mtl abstractions to pd-extended. I can build on Windows, Mac, Linux & the RPI.
Will try to poke Hans about the code diffs on #dataflow. Should we (anyone interested in updating pd-extended) have a chat (irc, hangout, whatever). I am sure Hans will be willing to gives 30 minutes to help us help him.
Let's bang it.
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Before you pay someone to do it, we need to define what "it" is.
"It" might generally look something like this:
Pull from the newest stable upstream code
Get it to compile
Run the regression tests
Make alpha and beta builds, gather reports of bugs, fix bugs, re-run tests
Release
So for Pd-extended, one would pull from the newest stable Vanilla source.
To complete #2 and #4, one need build environments for all of Pd-extended's target platforms. Probably the easiest way to achieve that is to partner with two other developers-- for example, if one uses Ubuntu, find an OSX person and a Windows person who can build Pd on their respective OSes. (There are guides on puredata.info about how to do this for each platform.)
Pd-extended doesn't have any tests AFAICT, so skip that step.
Kickstarter won't really help you here. It's possible that it would give some incentive for doing a single release, but how can it sustain that work for the next release, or the one after that?
-Jonathan
On Sunday, September 21, 2014 5:22 PM, me.grimm megrimm@gmail.com wrote:
it involves time
... or money.
maybe we revisit the kickstarter (or something else) idea brought forth by jonathon a few years ago and just pay someone to do it. to me it seems like 1) none of us really have any money (im just assuming here we are all poor artists) and more importantly 2) none of us really have any time and those that do might not have the skills.
OR maybe we have another PDCon (remember that?) to get amped up and pump something out....
m
On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I talked to Hans about this a bit. In essence, it involves bringing in the new pd vanilla source and making sure the Pd-extended additions/modifications aren't lost. With the updates/cleanups to the tcl/tk sources a few years ago (great work Hans et al!), it should be alot easier than the previous extended releases. But still, *easy* or not, it involves time.
On Sep 21, 2014, at 6:00 AM, pd-list-request@lists.iem.at wrote:
From: Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [PD] [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: Updated pd-extended
Date: September 20, 2014 at 5:02:59 PM EDT
To: Billy Stiltner billy.stiltner@gmail.com
Cc: "pd-list@lists.iem.at" pd-list@lists.iem.at
I wish I knew something about coding to help out with its development :P I do care a lot about it though and wish I could help in some other way.
I do see a few problems with extended, but they're basically related to some of the externals and libraries that sometimes do not work as they should, have bad and messy help files and are sometimes redundanct. If welcome, I could help sharing my thoughts and two cents about that, but I realize those are not actual bug fixes regarding the code, so it's not a priority on its to do list and issues for being updated to another release.
Anyway, while were at it, what kind of work exactly do you mean someone would have to do? I suppose there is a great list of bug fixes just to keep it basically what it is. Given the context, I'm not assuming any big to do list for some new features agenda. But besidesthe bug fixes, how hard is it for someone to just update to the latest vanilla core?
Well, since Pd is an open source project that relies on community effort, and this is the list of its main developers and users, I guess this is the place to talk about a collaboration and see if we can get Pd-extended's developmentto continue.
I'd to help in any way I can.
Cheers
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Graduate students?
On Sep 22, 2014, at 11:40 AM, Jonathan Wilkes jancsika@yahoo.com wrote:
Kickstarter won't really help you here. It's possible that it would give some incentive for doing a single release, but how can it sustain that work for the next release, or the one after that?
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Did someone write some tests for some Pd flavor? That'd be a nice development.
Pd-extended's test suite consists of loading every object, and loading every help patch. They are scripts in SVN: scripts/load_every_object.sh and scripts/tests/ They have been quite helpful in finding issues.
.hc
Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list wrote:
Before you pay someone to do it, we need to define what "it" is.
"It" might generally look something like this:
Pull from the newest stable upstream code
Get it to compile
Run the regression tests
Make alpha and beta builds, gather reports of bugs, fix bugs, re-run tests
Release
So for Pd-extended, one would pull from the newest stable Vanilla source.
To complete #2 and #4, one need build environments for all of Pd-extended's target platforms. Probably the easiest way to achieve that is to partner with two other developers-- for example, if one uses Ubuntu, find an OSX person and a Windows person who can build Pd on their respective OSes. (There are guides on puredata.info about how to do this for each platform.)
Pd-extended doesn't have any tests AFAICT, so skip that step.
Kickstarter won't really help you here. It's possible that it would give some incentive for doing a single release, but how can it sustain that work for the next release, or the one after that?
-Jonathan
On Sunday, September 21, 2014 5:22 PM, me.grimm megrimm@gmail.com wrote:
it involves time
... or money.
maybe we revisit the kickstarter (or something else) idea brought forth by jonathon a few years ago and just pay someone to do it. to me it seems like 1) none of us really have any money (im just assuming here we are all poor artists) and more importantly 2) none of us really have any time and those that do might not have the skills.
OR maybe we have another PDCon (remember that?) to get amped up and pump something out....
m
On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I talked to Hans about this a bit. In essence, it involves bringing in the new pd vanilla source and making sure the Pd-extended additions/modifications aren't lost. With the updates/cleanups to the tcl/tk sources a few years ago (great work Hans et al!), it should be alot easier than the previous extended releases. But still, *easy* or not, it involves time.
On Sep 21, 2014, at 6:00 AM, pd-list-request@lists.iem.at wrote:
From: Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [PD] [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: Updated pd-extended
Date: September 20, 2014 at 5:02:59 PM EDT
To: Billy Stiltner billy.stiltner@gmail.com
Cc: "pd-list@lists.iem.at" pd-list@lists.iem.at
I wish I knew something about coding to help out with its development :P I do care a lot about it though and wish I could help in some other way.
I do see a few problems with extended, but they're basically related to some of the externals and libraries that sometimes do not work as they should, have bad and messy help files and are sometimes redundanct. If welcome, I could help sharing my thoughts and two cents about that, but I realize those are not actual bug fixes regarding the code, so it's not a priority on its to do list and issues for being updated to another release.
Anyway, while were at it, what kind of work exactly do you mean someone would have to do? I suppose there is a great list of bug fixes just to keep it basically what it is. Given the context, I'm not assuming any big to do list for some new features agenda. But besidesthe bug fixes, how hard is it for someone to just update to the latest vanilla core?
Well, since Pd is an open source project that relies on community effort, and this is the list of its main developers and users, I guess this is the place to talk about a collaboration and see if we can get Pd-extended's developmentto continue.
I'd to help in any way I can.
Cheers
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
N�n�r����)em�h�yhiם�w^��
love those two ideas
I could also add the idea of having some research group working on it. At least here in Brazil I know a couple of people who'd like to back it up.
so yeah, I was waiting for the american PdCon and it never happened :( guess I'll have to make another south american one
cheers
2014-09-21 18:19 GMT-03:00 me.grimm megrimm@gmail.com:
it involves time
... or money.
maybe we revisit the kickstarter (or something else) idea brought forth by jonathon a few years ago and just pay someone to do it. to me it seems like
- none of us really have any money (im just assuming here we are all poor
artists) and more importantly 2) none of us really have any time and those that do might not have the skills.
OR maybe we have another PDCon (remember that?) to get amped up and pump something out....
m
On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
I talked to Hans about this a bit. In essence, it involves bringing in the new pd vanilla source and making sure the Pd-extended additions/modifications aren't lost. With the updates/cleanups to the tcl/tk sources a few years ago (great work Hans et al!), it should be alot easier than the previous extended releases. But still, *easy* or not, it involves time.
On Sep 21, 2014, at 6:00 AM, pd-list-request@lists.iem.at wrote:
*From: *Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com *Subject: **Re: [PD] [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: Updated pd-extended* *Date: *September 20, 2014 at 5:02:59 PM EDT *To: *Billy Stiltner billy.stiltner@gmail.com *Cc: *"pd-list@lists.iem.at" pd-list@lists.iem.at
I wish I knew something about coding to help out with its development :P I do care a lot about it though and wish I could help in some other way.
I do see a few problems with extended, but they're basically related to some of the externals and libraries that sometimes do not work as they should, have bad and messy help files and are sometimes redundanct. If welcome, I could help sharing my thoughts and two cents about that, but I realize those are not actual bug fixes regarding the code, so it's not a priority on its to do list and issues for being updated to another release.
Anyway, while were at it, what kind of work exactly do you mean someone would have to do? I suppose there is a great list of bug fixes just to keep it basically what it is. Given the context, I'm not assuming any big to do list for some new features agenda. But besidesthe bug fixes, how hard is it for someone to just update to the latest vanilla core?
Well, since Pd is an open source project that relies on community effort, and this is the list of its main developers and users, I guess this is the place to talk about a collaboration and see if we can get Pd-extended's development to continue.
I'd to help in any way I can.
Cheers
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
-- ____________________ m.e.grimm | m.f.a | ed.m. megrimm@gmail.com _________________________________
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
I remember seeing a series of patches (code diffs I mean) that made the necessary changes to Pd vanilla to Pd extended - does anyone know if these still exist? (I couldn't find them when I looked at the Pd extended SVN repository a few weeks ago).
Some of them should be in Pd vanilla anyway, and if I took that part on it would make the rest a lot easier.
cheers Miller
On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 01:44:11PM -0400, Dan Wilcox wrote:
I talked to Hans about this a bit. In essence, it involves bringing in the new pd vanilla source and making sure the Pd-extended additions/modifications aren't lost. With the updates/cleanups to the tcl/tk sources a few years ago (great work Hans et al!), it should be alot easier than the previous extended releases. But still, *easy* or not, it involves time.
On Sep 21, 2014, at 6:00 AM, pd-list-request@lists.iem.at wrote:
From: Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PD] [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: Updated pd-extended Date: September 20, 2014 at 5:02:59 PM EDT To: Billy Stiltner billy.stiltner@gmail.com Cc: "pd-list@lists.iem.at" pd-list@lists.iem.at
I wish I knew something about coding to help out with its development :P I do care a lot about it though and wish I could help in some other way.
I do see a few problems with extended, but they're basically related to some of the externals and libraries that sometimes do not work as they should, have bad and messy help files and are sometimes redundanct. If welcome, I could help sharing my thoughts and two cents about that, but I realize those are not actual bug fixes regarding the code, so it's not a priority on its to do list and issues for being updated to another release.
Anyway, while were at it, what kind of work exactly do you mean someone would have to do? I suppose there is a great list of bug fixes just to keep it basically what it is. Given the context, I'm not assuming any big to do list for some new features agenda. But besidesthe bug fixes, how hard is it for someone to just update to the latest vanilla core?
Well, since Pd is an open source project that relies on community effort, and this is the list of its main developers and users, I guess this is the place to talk about a collaboration and see if we can get Pd-extended's development to continue.
I'd to help in any way I can.
Cheers
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
I haven't checked the status of any of those patches in a long time. I posted many in the patch tracker, did those get included? I used to maintain the pd-extended git repo as a branch that always showed the pd-extended changes as a series of commits on top of Pd-vanilla's git. That is called the 'patch_series' branch in the pd-extended.git. But then so many of my patches did not get accepted, I abandoned that approach since it was too much work. More recently, I reversed it, treating vanilla's git as a source of patches for Pd-extended.
.hc
Miller Puckette wrote:
I remember seeing a series of patches (code diffs I mean) that made the necessary changes to Pd vanilla to Pd extended - does anyone know if these still exist? (I couldn't find them when I looked at the Pd extended SVN repository a few weeks ago).
Some of them should be in Pd vanilla anyway, and if I took that part on it would make the rest a lot easier.
cheers Miller
On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 01:44:11PM -0400, Dan Wilcox wrote:
I talked to Hans about this a bit. In essence, it involves bringing in the new pd vanilla source and making sure the Pd-extended additions/modifications aren't lost. With the updates/cleanups to the tcl/tk sources a few years ago (great work Hans et al!), it should be alot easier than the previous extended releases. But still, *easy* or not, it involves time.
On Sep 21, 2014, at 6:00 AM, pd-list-request@lists.iem.at wrote:
From: Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PD] [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: Updated pd-extended Date: September 20, 2014 at 5:02:59 PM EDT To: Billy Stiltner billy.stiltner@gmail.com Cc: "pd-list@lists.iem.at" pd-list@lists.iem.at
I wish I knew something about coding to help out with its development :P I do care a lot about it though and wish I could help in some other way.
I do see a few problems with extended, but they're basically related to some of the externals and libraries that sometimes do not work as they should, have bad and messy help files and are sometimes redundanct. If welcome, I could help sharing my thoughts and two cents about that, but I realize those are not actual bug fixes regarding the code, so it's not a priority on its to do list and issues for being updated to another release.
Anyway, while were at it, what kind of work exactly do you mean someone would have to do? I suppose there is a great list of bug fixes just to keep it basically what it is. Given the context, I'm not assuming any big to do list for some new features agenda. But besidesthe bug fixes, how hard is it for someone to just update to the latest vanilla core?
Well, since Pd is an open source project that relies on community effort, and this is the list of its main developers and users, I guess this is the place to talk about a collaboration and see if we can get Pd-extended's development to continue.
I'd to help in any way I can.
Cheers
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
-
Alexandre Torres Porres -
Dan Wilcox -
Hans-Christoph Steiner -
Jonathan Wilkes -
me.grimm -
Miller Puckette -
puredata＠11h11.com