Hi PD list, Can anybody recommend a midi sequencing application that works well with pd and possibly jack?
Thanks B~ www.cypod.co.nr
hi cypod
On Mon, 2006-12-04 at 09:22 -0800, Cypod wrote:
Hi PD list, Can anybody recommend a midi sequencing application that works well with pd and possibly jack?
what you mean by 'works well' is heavily dependent on what you intend to do. when using midi or streaming sound around, i see no other way than using jack as a communication layer between the application and puredata. from that point, any app that has jack-ability works technically well with pd. rosegarden (http://www.rosegardenmusic.com/ ) is quite a capable and easy-to-use midi-editor/sequencer, though it has limited audio-functionality.
roman
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On Mon Dec 04, 2006 at 09:20:02PM +0100, Roman Haefeli wrote:
hi cypod
On Mon, 2006-12-04 at 09:22 -0800, Cypod wrote:
Hi PD list, Can anybody recommend a midi sequencing application that works well with pd and possibly jack?
what you mean by 'works well' is heavily dependent on what you intend to do. when using midi or streaming sound around, i see no other way than using jack as a communication layer between the application and puredata. from that point, any app that has jack-ability works technically well with pd.
PD's [midiin]s can recieve from jack midi ports?
if not, maybe you mean to suggest alsa MIDI.. and an external sequencer.
if it was me i'd convert the midi to floats right off, and store it using pool/pdcontainer and edit with a nice tk widget..
rosegarden (http://www.rosegardenmusic.com/ ) is quite a capable and easy-to-use midi-editor/sequencer, though it has limited audio-functionality.
roman
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On Mon, 2006-12-04 at 15:41 -0500, carmen wrote:
On Mon Dec 04, 2006 at 09:20:02PM +0100, Roman Haefeli wrote:
hi cypod
On Mon, 2006-12-04 at 09:22 -0800, Cypod wrote:
Hi PD list, Can anybody recommend a midi sequencing application that works well with pd and possibly jack?
what you mean by 'works well' is heavily dependent on what you intend to do. when using midi or streaming sound around, i see no other way than using jack as a communication layer between the application and puredata. from that point, any app that has jack-ability works technically well with pd.
PD's [midiin]s can recieve from jack midi ports?
it seems so. at least when starting pd with '-jack' (well, that flag still doesn't work here, but i use a workaround by sending a message [audio-setapi <some values>( ), pd shows up in jacks audio-connections and midi-connections dialog. and if i connect rosegarden's midi out to pd's midiin, i can receive the midimessages sent by rosagarden in pd (and vice versa, of course). this was tested on ubuntu dapper with jackd from the ubuntu-distro and pd-0.40-0 from cvs.
anyway, in pd's media menu, there is the box 'ALSA-MIDI' activated, so i don't know how to interprete this, i mean if pd really supports jack's midi, or if jack does provide some alsa emulation. at least it works.
if not, maybe you mean to suggest alsa MIDI.. and an external sequencer.
no, i mean a a software sequencer running on the same computer like pd runs on.
roman
Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de
Roman Haefeli wrote:
anyway, in pd's media menu, there is the box 'ALSA-MIDI' activated, so i don't know how to interprete this, i mean if pd really supports jack's midi, or if jack does provide some alsa emulation. at least it works.
there is no "jack-midi"; what you see in qjackctl as midi-devices are really just ALSA-midi devices (no need for jack to provide anything here, since alsa could already do it). so i guess this is where some confusion comes from.
mfg.ar IOhannes
Hallo, IOhannes m zmoelnig hat gesagt: // IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
Roman Haefeli wrote:
anyway, in pd's media menu, there is the box 'ALSA-MIDI' activated, so i don't know how to interprete this, i mean if pd really supports jack's midi, or if jack does provide some alsa emulation. at least it works.
there is no "jack-midi";
Actually there is now. But not many applications support it yet, so most users of qjackctl will indeed be editing ALSA sequencer connections, not jack-midi.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 09:24 +0100, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
Roman Haefeli wrote:
anyway, in pd's media menu, there is the box 'ALSA-MIDI' activated, so i don't know how to interprete this, i mean if pd really supports jack's midi, or if jack does provide some alsa emulation. at least it works.
there is no "jack-midi"; what you see in qjackctl as midi-devices are really just ALSA-midi devices (no need for jack to provide anything here, since alsa could already do it). so i guess this is where some confusion comes from.
i see, thank you for clarifying this.
roman
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carmen wrote:
On Mon Dec 04, 2006 at 09:20:02PM +0100, Roman Haefeli wrote:
hi cypod
On Mon, 2006-12-04 at 09:22 -0800, Cypod wrote:
Hi PD list, Can anybody recommend a midi sequencing application that works well with pd and possibly jack?
what you mean by 'works well' is heavily dependent on what you intend to do. when using midi or streaming sound around, i see no other way than using jack as a communication layer between the application and puredata. from that point, any app that has jack-ability works technically well with pd.
PD's [midiin]s can recieve from jack midi ports?
if not, maybe you mean to suggest alsa MIDI.. and an external sequencer.
if it was me i'd convert the midi to floats right off, and store it using pool/pdcontainer and edit with a nice tk widget..
Hi Carmen, maybe you'me missed my message on LAU list. I was asking for help to install your ix widgets. They seem a lot of fun from the screenshots.
I'm almost there. I've compiled and installed all the required tk packages, but I suspect BLT isn't working (I have used a precompiled binary found somewhere since the official source didn't compile with tk 8.5a, which I use).
Some widgets load, but mat.wig and lg.wig don't. I get these errors for mat.wid:
mat .x8254708.c.n1826a648 n1826a648 tcl error: in ::toxy::longvishook: invalid command name "::ix::mat_new" miXed consistency check failed: widgettype_doload
lg.wid gives this: tcl error: invalid command name "blt::graph"
which is obviously related to BLT.
I would also like to know how to start the custom pd gui. I've tried with:
wish pd_base.tk
but it complains about the missing 'pre8.5.tcl' source file.
I plan to learn to make my own widgets, but I've just started playing with tcl /tk and the widget external.
Anyway as far as I've understood you use osc to talk between your widgets and pd. Is it right?
I'm asking this because I'm making similar widgets within the squeak smalltalk environment (www.squeak.org) using OSC as protocol. So, if this is the case, it would be more pratical for me to keep working with these tools I know a bit more.
Thank you.
c.
rosegarden (http://www.rosegardenmusic.com/ ) is quite a capable and easy-to-use midi-editor/sequencer, though it has limited audio-functionality.
roman
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maybe you'me missed my message on LAU list. I was asking for help to install your ix widgets. They seem a lot of fun from the screenshots. tcl error: in ::toxy::longvishook: invalid command name "::ix::mat_new" miXed consistency check failed: widgettype_doload
yeah i saw that. sorry, unable to help at the moment as ive been using a 64bit computer/OS for the past 3 years, and devel pd freezes on launch, desire crashes 3 seconds after launch, and msp fails to connect to any audio interfaces. additionally, [widget] needs to be fixed for the latest PD version, many 0.1 version bumps on the Tk libs broke widgets, and platform differences in when drawing structs are updated meant id have to specialcase a lot of platform and error conditions (eg divide by zero in [winfo height]) due to toxy's roughshod 'rewrite tk into pd-escaped code and shuttle it over the GUI socket and hope it all gets executed' tactics.
'Mat' is an exception anyways, since it began as a piano roll (if you remember pd_sucks.PNG) and was extended to the point of being able to host my other widgets, slightly rewritten from their toxy versions. this is the one widget where any cool features it had (floating inspector, Illustrator/Inkscape style object alignment(quantization/distribution), and tagged/labeled selection would be better ported to the main desire canvas class (and make some kind of 'Note' object with a flexible representation, veering towards reimplmeneting 'datastructures'). i'll mention it when i get around to adding options to DD's build files to support GCC's -m32 mode, and port the widgets..
Anyway as far as I've understood you use osc to talk between your widgets and pd. Is it right?
they use PD protocol. just flat lists.. if you want to use OSC to control things, theres another similar project called Khagan: http://khagan.berlios.de/
I'm asking this because I'm making similar widgets within the squeak smalltalk environment (www.squeak.org) using OSC as protocol. So, if this is the case, it would be more pratical for me to keep working with these tools I know a bit more.
this sounds cool. keep us posted on progress..
carmen wrote:
maybe you'me missed my message on LAU list. I was asking for help to install your ix widgets. They seem a lot of fun from the screenshots. tcl error: in ::toxy::longvishook: invalid command name "::ix::mat_new" miXed consistency check failed: widgettype_doload
yeah i saw that. sorry, unable to help at the moment as ive been using a 64bit computer/OS for the past 3 years, and devel pd freezes on launch, desire crashes 3 seconds after launch, and msp fails to connect to any audio interfaces. additionally, [widget] needs to be fixed for the latest PD version, many 0.1 version bumps on the Tk libs broke widgets, and platform differences in when drawing structs are updated meant id have to specialcase a lot of platform and error conditions (eg divide by zero in [winfo height]) due to toxy's roughshod 'rewrite tk into pd-escaped code and shuttle it over the GUI socket and hope it all gets executed' tactics.
'Mat' is an exception anyways, since it began as a piano roll (if you remember pd_sucks.PNG) and was extended to the point of being able to host my other widgets, slightly rewritten from their toxy versions. this is the one widget where any cool features it had (floating inspector, Illustrator/Inkscape style object alignment(quantization/distribution), and tagged/labeled selection would be better ported to the main desire canvas class (and make some kind of 'Note' object with a flexible representation, veering towards reimplmeneting 'datastructures'). i'll mention it when i get around to adding options to DD's build files to support GCC's -m32 mode, and port the widgets..
Anyway as far as I've understood you use osc to talk between your widgets and pd. Is it right?
they use PD protocol. just flat lists.. if you want to use OSC to control things, theres another similar project called Khagan: http://khagan.berlios.de/
I'm asking this because I'm making similar widgets within the squeak smalltalk environment (www.squeak.org) using OSC as protocol. So, if this is the case, it would be more pratical for me to keep working with these tools I know a bit more.
this sounds cool. keep us posted on progress..
Ok. I see. Thank you for the explanations.
I knew about khagan. I'll give it a try.
I think it would be interesting to have some sort of OSC sequencer. I would love to compose with the same control over each note (or any other kind of event) you can have with csound scores but that can be edited visually.
I love to use pure data to build instruments and effect, but at some point I want to expose all the parameters of my patch to OSC and use such kind of tool (some kind of OSC sequencer) to concentrate on composition/performance, mostly drawing and editing envelopes and maybe also triggering them in a generative fashion.
c.
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
On Tue, Dec 05, 2006 at 12:05:40AM +0000, Cesare Marilungo wrote:
I think it would be interesting to have some sort of OSC sequencer. I would love to compose with the same control over each note (or any other kind of event) you can have with csound scores but that can be edited visually.
I love to use pure data to build instruments and effect, but at some point I want to expose all the parameters of my patch to OSC and use such kind of tool (some kind of OSC sequencer) to concentrate on composition/performance, mostly drawing and editing envelopes and maybe also triggering them in a generative fashion.
Hi Cesare,
It's definately possible to draw and edit envelopes and trigger them in a generative fashion using the datastructures feature of Puredata. You might like to check out Hans' work "solitude" and also there are various GOP abstractions floating around which allow you to make/edit envelopes with a mouse and save those envelopes' states between sessions in various ways.
Best,
Chris.
chris@mccormick.cx http://mccormick.cx
Chris McCormick wrote:
On Tue, Dec 05, 2006 at 12:05:40AM +0000, Cesare Marilungo wrote:
I think it would be interesting to have some sort of OSC sequencer. I would love to compose with the same control over each note (or any other kind of event) you can have with csound scores but that can be edited visually.
I love to use pure data to build instruments and effect, but at some point I want to expose all the parameters of my patch to OSC and use such kind of tool (some kind of OSC sequencer) to concentrate on composition/performance, mostly drawing and editing envelopes and maybe also triggering them in a generative fashion.
Hi Cesare,
It's definately possible to draw and edit envelopes and trigger them in a generative fashion using the datastructures feature of Puredata. You might like to check out Hans' work "solitude" and also there are various GOP abstractions floating around which allow you to make/edit envelopes with a mouse and save those envelopes' states between sessions in various ways.
Yes. I knew about that and I've already experimented a bit with pd data structures and their graphical representation. But I was thinking about a more generic tool. Something to drive multiple sound generating softwares in the same session.
The approach of using pd for everything is worth when you plan to release a piece as a patch. But I'd like to have a dedicated application with a more flexible gui to compose and control performances.
Ciao,
c.
Best,
Chris.
chris@mccormick.cx http://mccormick.cx
I would recommend Bidule by Plogue. I love this program. Brilliant for live use as well. It has a basic midi sequencer that, from the sounds of it, might be sufficient for what the expressed need here. The next version will have more advanced sequencing capabilities. Most importantly it speaks OSC. It comes in at an extremely reasonable $75. The FFT processing tools are worth that price alone, imho. I highly recommend it.
Jared Dunne
-----Original Message----- From: pd-list-bounces@iem.at [mailto:pd-list-bounces@iem.at] On Behalf Of Cesare Marilungo Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 2:10 AM To: Chris McCormick Cc: pd-list@iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] Midi sequencing
Chris McCormick wrote:
On Tue, Dec 05, 2006 at 12:05:40AM +0000, Cesare Marilungo wrote:
I think it would be interesting to have some sort of OSC sequencer. I
would love to compose with the same control over each note (or any
other
kind of event) you can have with csound scores but that can be edited
visually.
I love to use pure data to build instruments and effect, but at some point I want to expose all the parameters of my patch to OSC and use such kind of tool (some kind of OSC sequencer) to concentrate on composition/performance, mostly drawing and editing envelopes and
maybe
also triggering them in a generative fashion.
Hi Cesare,
It's definately possible to draw and edit envelopes and trigger them
in
a generative fashion using the datastructures feature of Puredata. You might like to check out Hans' work "solitude" and also there are
various
GOP abstractions floating around which allow you to make/edit
envelopes
with a mouse and save those envelopes' states between sessions in various ways.
Yes. I knew about that and I've already experimented a bit with pd data structures and their graphical representation. But I was thinking about a more generic tool. Something to drive multiple sound generating softwares in the same session.
The approach of using pd for everything is worth when you plan to release a piece as a patch. But I'd like to have a dedicated application
with a more flexible gui to compose and control performances.
Ciao,
c.
Best,
Chris.
chris@mccormick.cx http://mccormick.cx
jared wrote:
I would recommend Bidule by Plogue. I love this program. Brilliant for live use as well. It has a basic midi sequencer that, from the sounds of it, might be sufficient for what the expressed need here. The next version will have more advanced sequencing capabilities. Most importantly it speaks OSC. It comes in at an extremely reasonable $75. The FFT processing tools are worth that price alone, imho. I highly recommend it.
Jared Dunne
Thank you Jared. But I can't even try it. I have just gnu/Linux here. And being also a programmer, I prefer to have the sources of the software I use (NOTE: somebody should invent an acronym for this explanation ;-) ).
It seems interesting, though.
Ciao,
c.
-----Original Message----- From: pd-list-bounces@iem.at [mailto:pd-list-bounces@iem.at] On Behalf Of Cesare Marilungo Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 2:10 AM To: Chris McCormick Cc: pd-list@iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] Midi sequencing
Chris McCormick wrote:
On Tue, Dec 05, 2006 at 12:05:40AM +0000, Cesare Marilungo wrote:
I think it would be interesting to have some sort of OSC sequencer. I
would love to compose with the same control over each note (or any
other
kind of event) you can have with csound scores but that can be edited
visually.
I love to use pure data to build instruments and effect, but at some point I want to expose all the parameters of my patch to OSC and use such kind of tool (some kind of OSC sequencer) to concentrate on composition/performance, mostly drawing and editing envelopes and
maybe
also triggering them in a generative fashion.
Hi Cesare,
It's definately possible to draw and edit envelopes and trigger them
in
a generative fashion using the datastructures feature of Puredata. You might like to check out Hans' work "solitude" and also there are
various
GOP abstractions floating around which allow you to make/edit
envelopes
with a mouse and save those envelopes' states between sessions in various ways.
Yes. I knew about that and I've already experimented a bit with pd data structures and their graphical representation. But I was thinking about a more generic tool. Something to drive multiple sound generating softwares in the same session.
The approach of using pd for everything is worth when you plan to release a piece as a patch. But I'd like to have a dedicated application
with a more flexible gui to compose and control performances.
Ciao,
c.
Best,
Chris.
chris@mccormick.cx http://mccormick.cx
I forgot to add, Bidule can act as a vst host or slave....it also runs in standalone.
Another suggestion would be eXT. It doesn't speak OSC, but it takes an extremely flexible and modular approach to audio/midi sequencing. At 39 euro, it is an amazing deal. Version 2 will be out soon so I'd suggest buying it now before the price is raised for the new version. Oh yeah, version two will be running on Linux as well!! Like Bidule, eXT can act as a vst host or slave, or can be operated in standalone mode. Version two is being released in 3 separate beta stages. It has a very warm and helpful community as well.
Version 1: http://www.xt-hq.com/
Version 2: http://www.energy-xt.com/
Jared Dunne
-----Original Message----- From: pd-list-bounces@iem.at [mailto:pd-list-bounces@iem.at] On Behalf Of Cesare Marilungo Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 2:10 AM To: Chris McCormick Cc: pd-list@iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] Midi sequencing
Chris McCormick wrote:
On Tue, Dec 05, 2006 at 12:05:40AM +0000, Cesare Marilungo wrote:
I think it would be interesting to have some sort of OSC sequencer. I
would love to compose with the same control over each note (or any
other
kind of event) you can have with csound scores but that can be edited
visually.
I love to use pure data to build instruments and effect, but at some point I want to expose all the parameters of my patch to OSC and use such kind of tool (some kind of OSC sequencer) to concentrate on composition/performance, mostly drawing and editing envelopes and
maybe
also triggering them in a generative fashion.
Hi Cesare,
It's definately possible to draw and edit envelopes and trigger them
in
a generative fashion using the datastructures feature of Puredata. You might like to check out Hans' work "solitude" and also there are
various
GOP abstractions floating around which allow you to make/edit
envelopes
with a mouse and save those envelopes' states between sessions in various ways.
Yes. I knew about that and I've already experimented a bit with pd data structures and their graphical representation. But I was thinking about a more generic tool. Something to drive multiple sound generating softwares in the same session.
The approach of using pd for everything is worth when you plan to release a piece as a patch. But I'd like to have a dedicated application
with a more flexible gui to compose and control performances.
Ciao,
c.
Best,
Chris.
chris@mccormick.cx http://mccormick.cx
On Mon, 4 Dec 2006, carmen wrote:
yeah i saw that. sorry, unable to help at the moment as ive been using a 64bit computer/OS for the past 3 years, and devel pd freezes on launch, desire crashes 3 seconds after launch, and msp fails to connect to any audio interfaces.
If you have any insight on this, please talk to me about this, because I'm trying to incorporate more recent versions of Miller's pd into DesireData, and DesireData is based on devel, so I'd like to know what's wrong. I am having problems with getting sound to work on my computer too (running in just 32-bit mode), but some other people report that sound works on theirs.
additionally, [widget] needs to be fixed for the latest PD version,
Do you mean that it doesn't work with pd 0.40 and/or 0.40 ? which one? what's the error message?
many 0.1 version bumps on the Tk libs broke widgets
Tcl/Tk is possibly one of the language/interpreters/libraries that are most careful about backwards-compatibility, so I wonder, what did you do that broke compatibility. Do you mean something in an add-on to Tk, or in Tk itself?
divide by zero in [winfo height]
This is because you are trying to get the height of a window before the window is put on the screen, right? Else, what can it be?
due to toxy's roughshod 'rewrite tk into pd-escaped code and shuttle it over the GUI socket and hope it all gets executed' tactics.
I don't see how that is the cause of what's going on: it looks like a different problem. Are there still any problems with server->client data getting truncated when the buffer overflows?
i'll mention it when i get around to adding options to DD's build files to support GCC's -m32 mode, and port the widgets..
Have you tried Miller's 0.41 in 64-bit mode? does it fix your problems?
_ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801 - http://artengine.ca/matju | Freelance Digital Arts Engineer, Montréal QC Canada
On Mon, Dec 04, 2006 at 09:22:41AM -0800, Cypod wrote:
Can anybody recommend a midi sequencing application that works well with pd and possibly jack?
Hi Cypod,
I recently asked this on the Linux Audio Users list and they suggested the following: seq24, muse, rosegarden, radium.
I think I am going to use seq24 for my particular project as it is lightweight and pretty much does exactly what I want. It has a 'song mode' where you can use it to sequence patterns instead of playing it as a live midi-looping instrument.
Best regards,
Chris.
chris@mccormick.cx http://mccormick.cx
-
carmen -
Cesare Marilungo -
Chris McCormick -
Cypod -
Frank Barknecht -
IOhannes m zmoelnig -
jared -
Mathieu Bouchard -
Roman Haefeli