Hello all,
Apologies for the ot post; I've got my final thesis show coming up in early April and I'm doing all sound work using Pd. The gallery space I am using is actually quite poor for acoustics, as it's got a concrete floor and metal roofing. It's relatively small though - two hallways each about 10 feet by 30 feet large (3 by 9 meters if you like) making a "T" shape. I would like to do two 4 channel sound installations, perhaps one for each hallway.
I know there are many sound scientists and artists on the list so I thought I would ask if anyone knows of resources to look at for dealing with these kinds of issues? How are other artists sorting these things out? Any links or recommendations would be very helpful. Low ends tend to get very muddy and the highs and mids spill all over the place. Are there certain tricks I could use in mixing or placement/kinds of speakers to preserve the highs and mids better in a difficult space? This might be a difficult question since you can't hear the piece in person, but even general advice would be very helpful.
Also if any of you have documentation of your own installations, I would love to see them.
Thanks! Kevin
On 2/7/07, Kevin McCoy km.takewithyou@gmail.com wrote: there are many sound scientists and artists on the list so I thought
I would ask if anyone knows of resources to look at for dealing with these kinds of issues? How are other artists sorting these things out? Any links or recommendations would be very helpful. Low ends tend to get very muddy and the highs and mids spill all over the place. Are there certain tricks I could use in mixing or placement/kinds of speakers to preserve the highs and mids better in a difficult space? This might be a difficult question since you can't hear the piece in person, but even general advice would be very helpful.
I'm no sound scientist, but wouldn't just some ordinary foam of the type people put in their music studios help? It sounds like you are having trouble with unwanted and weird reverberations, which the foam should lesson. Having performed music in such spaces (concrete and metal), I've got a pretty good idea of the kind of acoustic nightmare you are probably facing...
~David
I haven't done any sound installations, but in thinking about a particular space had some ideas for dealing with these acoustical issues. You could design the sound for the space, working with rather than against the acoustics. If possible, you could capture the impulse response of the space (perhaps in multiple locations), then as you work on the sound, use convolution to hear how it will sound in the space. I guess the degree to which you can adapt your piece depends on how far along you already are.
Alternatively, you could acoustically treat the space using acoustic foam or rigid fiberglass. This page has tons of good info:
http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html
Ben
Kevin McCoy wrote:
Hello all,
Apologies for the ot post; I've got my final thesis show coming up in early April and I'm doing all sound work using Pd. The gallery space I am using is actually quite poor for acoustics, as it's got a concrete floor and metal roofing. It's relatively small though - two hallways each about 10 feet by 30 feet large (3 by 9 meters if you like) making a "T" shape. I would like to do two 4 channel sound installations, perhaps one for each hallway.
I know there are many sound scientists and artists on the list so I thought I would ask if anyone knows of resources to look at for dealing with these kinds of issues? How are other artists sorting these things out? Any links or recommendations would be very helpful. Low ends tend to get very muddy and the highs and mids spill all over the place. Are there certain tricks I could use in mixing or placement/kinds of speakers to preserve the highs and mids better in a difficult space?
This might be a difficult question since you can't hear the piece in person, but even general advice would be very helpful.Also if any of you have documentation of your own installations, I would love to see them.
Thanks! Kevin
--
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Alternatively, you could acoustically treat the space using acoustic foam or rigid fiberglass. This page has tons of good info:
http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html
Ben
Alternativly you can use some cloth which might be cheaper or free from theatrical places. But if time left and concept admits it, I would go with the play-the-room suggestion as this could augment the perception of your sound.
Cheers,
Malte
Am 07.02.2007 um 20:12 schrieb Kevin McCoy:
Low ends tend to get very muddy and the highs and mids spill all
over the place. Are there certain tricks I could use in mixing or
placement/kinds of speakers to preserve the highs and mids better
in a difficult space? This might be a difficult question since you
can't hear the piece in person, but even general advice would be
very helpful.
hi kevin,
its really difficult to say so remotely without knowing both your
piece ans the place. but generally i'd say: don't use too high
volumes and use good sounds for the room you're in. "natural"
reverberation can be used or played with very nicely and ear-
pleasing. but the higher volume goes, the more the room gets excited
and filled with echo and reverberation and the "uglier" it sounds to
the normal listener...
cheers f.
Hi Kevin,
one more strategy i found very helpful in the past: It seems quite logical to try to incorporate the acoustics of that special room, rather than trying to fight it. A mixture of a dry, low-volume nearfield with speakers pointing towards the listener and a reverberant ambience could make a nice best-of-both-worlds blend, plus allowing you to use the reverated/dry character as additional parameter to build your installation around. One nice thing for reverberant sound projection is to point the speakers onto the wall and let the sound reflect from the wall towards the listener. Just like indirect light from the lamp next to your sofa, this approach lets the sound blend nicely with the room's reverberation character.
good luck, and perhaps tell the list how you did get along!
lg,P
Kevin McCoy wrote:
Hello all,
Apologies for the ot post; I've got my final thesis show coming up in early April and I'm doing all sound work using Pd. The gallery space I am using is actually quite poor for acoustics, as it's got a concrete floor and metal roofing. It's relatively small though - two hallways each about 10 feet by 30 feet large (3 by 9 meters if you like) making a "T" shape. I would like to do two 4 channel sound installations, perhaps one for each hallway.
I know there are many sound scientists and artists on the list so I thought I would ask if anyone knows of resources to look at for dealing with these kinds of issues? How are other artists sorting these things out? Any links or recommendations would be very helpful. Low ends tend to get very muddy and the highs and mids spill all over the place. Are there certain tricks I could use in mixing or placement/kinds of speakers to preserve the highs and mids better in a difficult space? This might be a difficult question since you can't hear the piece in person, but even general advice would be very helpful.
Also if any of you have documentation of your own installations, I would love to see them.
Thanks! Kevin
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
If you can (and it's a big if), try to suspend your acoustic dampening panels above the heads of people. This will have a big effect on your reverb problems without disrupting the space in the hallway.
I like the suggestions on this thread. very insightful
Chuck
We went to the Kimmel Center last semester in acoustics class, and this is exactly what they do. They have a huge foil on top that they raise or lower depending on the size of the ensemble. Now, they also have huge empty wells on both sides of the auditorium, and if they need wider reverb they open these huge walls in the auditorium so the sound can go all around- but I'm guessing that's beyond your means.
I also like the impulse response idea, if nothing else you can learn from doing it. The only thing I can add is that if you try delaying the sound at one end of the room, you can make people feel like the sound is coming from the other end; then, maybe, they'll move towards that end and get more direct sound.
-Chuckk
On 2/7/07, Charles Henry czhenry@gmail.com wrote:
If you can (and it's a big if), try to suspend your acoustic dampening panels above the heads of people. This will have a big effect on your reverb problems without disrupting the space in the hallway.
I like the suggestions on this thread. very insightful
Chuck
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
For very quick and dirty cost effective treatment use a couple of big fiberboard partitions, the 6ft kind you get to separate office cubes. Put them at 30-50 degrees to each other and place your speakers in the "focal point".
Also, turn it down. The best defence against reverb is to greatly lower the volume and create a 'nearfield' space into which the listers need to move.
Maybe this isn't compatible with your 4 sources and other artistic goals, but it might help you figure out some other ideas.
On Wed, 7 Feb 2007 13:12:08 -0600 "Kevin McCoy" km.takewithyou@gmail.com wrote:
Hello all,
Apologies for the ot post; I've got my final thesis show coming up in early April and I'm doing all sound work using Pd. The gallery space I am using is actually quite poor for acoustics, as it's got a concrete floor and metal roofing. It's relatively small though - two hallways each about 10 feet by 30 feet large (3 by 9 meters if you like) making a "T" shape. I would like to do two 4 channel sound installations, perhaps one for each hallway.
I know there are many sound scientists and artists on the list so I thought I would ask if anyone knows of resources to look at for dealing with these kinds of issues? How are other artists sorting these things out? Any links or recommendations would be very helpful. Low ends tend to get very muddy and the highs and mids spill all over the place. Are there certain tricks I could use in mixing or placement/kinds of speakers to preserve the highs and mids better in a difficult space? This might be a difficult question since you can't hear the piece in person, but even general advice would be very helpful.
Also if any of you have documentation of your own installations, I would love to see them.
Thanks! Kevin
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