Matteo Sisti Sette a écrit :
Frank wrote:
It's not so much the tool, as it is the skills that makes music sound good.
That is true for really good tools. Needless to say that Pd is one of them.
sorry, I might going to be rude,
but I've never heard some music completely made with PureData that really sound good.
they are alway little experiments, or false reproductions of things we know and without the sound.
like last time someone posted something that sounded like 'psychic warriors of gaia', but honnestly i'd prefer the original.
The skill to make music with pd is about rewriting everything, at the end it's not really the skill of a musician,
for example in concrete music, who is the musician, Pierre Schaeffer, or Pierre Henry?
Pierre Schaeffer has demonstrated that he is a very skilled music scientist, but he didn't even made a shit that we could hear like a composition.
pd is just a tool for learning dsp, there is no such project that show how pd is cool to make people moving on the dance floor.
--- On Thu, 4/15/10, colet.patrice@free.fr colet.patrice@free.fr wrote:
From: colet.patrice@free.fr colet.patrice@free.fr Subject: Re: [PD] nusmuk_audio WAS: Max Smoother Audio than Pd? To: pd-list@iem.at Date: Thursday, April 15, 2010, 5:53 PM
Matteo Sisti Sette a écrit :
Frank wrote:
It's not so much the tool, as it is the
skills that makes music
sound good.
That is true for really good tools. Needless
to say that Pd is one of
them.
sorry, I might going to be rude,
but I've never heard some music completely made with PureData that really sound good.
they are alway little experiments, or false reproductions of things we know and without the sound.
like last time someone posted something that sounded like 'psychic warriors of gaia', but honnestly i'd prefer the original.
The skill to make music with pd is about rewriting everything, at the end it's not really the skill of a musician,
for example in concrete music, who is the musician, Pierre Schaeffer, or Pierre Henry?
Pierre Schaeffer has demonstrated that he is a very skilled music scientist, but he didn't even made a shit that we could hear like a composition.
pd is just a tool for learning dsp, there is no such project that show how pd is cool to make people moving on the dance floor.
In your opinion, what kinds of features would the hypothetical "cool pd" have in order to give a composer the tools to make people move on the dance floor?
-Jonathan
Actual dance floors musics needs a very large handset of tools that also require best technologies for avoiding sound loss and having the sound responding correctly through all sound systems.
We use to call the set of composer tools a Workstation.
It's usually easier and sound better with mixing vinyls rather than playing live, that's why in almost all dance floors there are DJ's only.
If there would even have something like a kind of virtual mixer, Pd would have his place at least for mixing. This kind of tool require a graphical interface, obviously, for manually controlling the file mixing, and this is where a good tool could make the difference.
I don't doubt that a lot of the several technologies have been developped through different patches that works more or less, but without a kind of wrapper for all those patches it doesn't look like a human job to glue all the stuff together in a musical piece that would sounds as big as we use to hear when we go to dancefloors, or when we turn on the pop radio.
Selon Jonathan Wilkes jancsika@yahoo.com:
--- On Thu, 4/15/10, colet.patrice@free.fr colet.patrice@free.fr wrote:
From: colet.patrice@free.fr colet.patrice@free.fr Subject: Re: [PD] nusmuk_audio WAS: Max Smoother Audio than Pd? To: pd-list@iem.at Date: Thursday, April 15, 2010, 5:53 PM
Matteo Sisti Sette a écrit :
Frank wrote:
It's not so much the tool, as it is the
skills that makes music
sound good.
That is true for really good tools. Needless
to say that Pd is one of
them.
sorry, I might going to be rude,
but I've never heard some music completely made with PureData that really sound good.
they are alway little experiments, or false reproductions of things we know and without the sound.
like last time someone posted something that sounded like 'psychic warriors of gaia', but honnestly i'd prefer the original.
The skill to make music with pd is about rewriting everything, at the end it's not really the skill of a musician,
for example in concrete music, who is the musician, Pierre Schaeffer, or Pierre Henry?
Pierre Schaeffer has demonstrated that he is a very skilled music scientist, but he didn't even made a shit that we could hear like a composition.
pd is just a tool for learning dsp, there is no such project that show how pd is cool to make people moving on the dance floor.
In your opinion, what kinds of features would the hypothetical "cool pd" have in order to give a composer the tools to make people move on the dance floor?
-Jonathan
On Thu, 2010-04-15 at 20:23 +0200, colet.patrice@free.fr wrote:
Actual dance floors musics needs a very large handset of tools that also require best technologies for avoiding sound loss and having the sound responding correctly through all sound systems.
Are you implying there was no dance music since the 80's? How bad will actual 'best technologies' will be in a few years? Is that a discussion about certain aesthethics you're looking for or about technical possibilities?
Roman
just uploaded 2 vanilla workouts. these are not tracks. just me jamming in the staffroom of the school where i work. not sure if they will change anyone's mind on anything, but i think they show a bit of dynamic range and the possibilities offered by vanilla pd and perseverance.
http://soundcloud.com/vanilla-pd
there are a lot of samples here, but all were originally created from scratch in vanilla pd.
thank you for those pieces,
this show what pd is good for, electroacoustic music...
I'd like to ask you about the first one called 'Makeitmakeitmakeit'
are cymbals pd made?
also why there is no structure, did you make this choice by your own, or did the tools you've used where too limited to impose a structure?
----- Mail Original ----- De: "hard off" hard.off@gmail.com À: "Roman Haefeli" reduzierer@yahoo.de Cc: "colet patrice" colet.patrice@free.fr, pd-list@iem.at Envoyé: Vendredi 16 Avril 2010 16h22:47 GMT +01:00 Amsterdam / Berlin / Berne / Rome / Stockholm / Vienne Objet: Re: [PD] nusmuk_audio WAS: Max Smoother Audio than Pd?
just uploaded 2 vanilla workouts. these are not tracks. just me jamming in the staffroom of the school where i work. not sure if they will change anyone's mind on anything, but i think they show a bit of dynamic range and the possibilities offered by vanilla pd and perseverance.
http://soundcloud.com/vanilla-pd
there are a lot of samples here, but all were originally created from scratch in vanilla pd.
In addition to disagreeing vehemently with your main point (Pd is good for little more than experimentation), I find this a piss-poor acid test for "music that sounds good":
colet.patrice@free.fr wrote:
there is no such project that show how pd is cool to make people moving on the dance floor.
Phil Stone www.pkstonemusic.com
--- On Thu, 4/15/10, Phil Stone pkstone@ucdavis.edu wrote:
From: Phil Stone pkstone@ucdavis.edu Subject: Re: [PD] nusmuk_audio WAS: Max Smoother Audio than Pd? To: "PD list" pd-list@iem.at Date: Thursday, April 15, 2010, 7:49 PM In addition to disagreeing vehemently with your main point (Pd is good for little more than experimentation), I find this a piss-poor acid test for "music that sounds good":
colet.patrice@free.fr wrote:
there is no such project that show how pd is cool to
make people moving on the dance floor.
Phil- I dig music with compelling sounds, and I generally feel the urge to move my body to music I dig. One can use whatever test one wants to hold up some music as "genuine," and the question "does it draw people out onto the dance floor?" is just as valid as any other in this regard.
But then if the point of the acid test is to demonstrate the strengths
of a visual programming paradigm for the rapid implementation of various
dsp techniques to generate music, I'd say the OP's test is quite a fitting
and effective "Hello World" for Pd.
-Jonathan
Phil Stone www.pkstonemusic.com
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
There is little doubt that dance music dominates popular music, and has done so for eternity, but it certainly does not encompass all that is "good music".
Just because you feel the urge to move your body to music that is not dance-centric, i.e., you rock to Beethoven, or Liszt, or Charlie Parker, that does not mean music should be judged by its ability to draw people on to the dance floor. That really describes a rather small slice of "good music." Nor, I think, should it be the metric by which Pd is judged -- certainly not Pd's "Hello World" -- unless Pd is defined as "a programming language for electronic dance music."
Also, I think there has been some f'ing excellent dance music made with Pd, so I don't really understand the complaint in the first place.
Phil
Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
--- On Thu, 4/15/10, Phil Stone pkstone@ucdavis.edu wrote:
From: Phil Stone pkstone@ucdavis.edu Subject: Re: [PD] nusmuk_audio WAS: Max Smoother Audio than Pd? To: "PD list" pd-list@iem.at Date: Thursday, April 15, 2010, 7:49 PM In addition to disagreeing vehemently with your main point (Pd is good for little more than experimentation), I find this a piss-poor acid test for "music that sounds good":
colet.patrice@free.fr wrote:
there is no such project that show how pd is cool to
make people moving on the dance floor.
Phil- I dig music with compelling sounds, and I generally feel the urge to move my body to music I dig. One can use whatever test one wants to hold up some music as "genuine," and the question "does it draw people out onto the dance floor?" is just as valid as any other in this regard.
But then if the point of the acid test is to demonstrate the strengths of a visual programming paradigm for the rapid implementation of various
dsp techniques to generate music, I'd say the OP's test is quite a fitting and effective "Hello World" for Pd.-Jonathan
Phil Stone www.pkstonemusic.com
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
On Thu, 2010-04-15 at 17:53 +0200, colet.patrice@free.fr wrote:
Matteo Sisti Sette a écrit :
Frank wrote:
It's not so much the tool, as it is the skills that makes music sound good.
That is true for really good tools. Needless to say that Pd is one of them.
sorry, I might going to be rude,
but I've never heard some music completely made with PureData that really sound good.
they are alway little experiments, or false reproductions of things we know and without the sound.
like last time someone posted something that sounded like 'psychic warriors of gaia', but honnestly i'd prefer the original.
The skill to make music with pd is about rewriting everything, at the end it's not really the skill of a musician,
for example in concrete music, who is the musician, Pierre Schaeffer, or Pierre Henry?
Pierre Schaeffer has demonstrated that he is a very skilled music scientist, but he didn't even made a shit that we could hear like a composition.
While I fully disagree with you in all you've said and I know it's silly to talk about someones taste, this sentence:
pd is just a tool for learning dsp, there is no such project that show how pd is cool to make people moving on the dance floor.
is entirely untrue.
Roman
-
colet.patrice＠free.fr -
hard off -
Jonathan Wilkes -
Phil Stone -
Roman Haefeli