hi all & hc, just downloaded last night's autobuild--looks very nice! i understand the wish for flexible colours etc, but hc, thanks a lot for the work! there is something however that i don't understand: why is it that pd-ext doesn't load all the libs it comes with? the .plist it comes with contains 10 entries for loadlib, while in my tweaked prefs file for an earlier version, there are 36. i thought this problem might be a good reason to learn what [declare] is all about, but i didn't manage: [declare -lib ext13 -path /Applications/Pd-0.40.3-extended-20071106.app/Contents/Resources/extra/ext13 /] didn't do it, and neither did variations on the path. according to the help file (not included in the ext build), "you may use a full path name", so i'm wondering what i'm doing wrong... also [declare -lib ext13 /App...blablah] (as quoted by roman in an earlier post) doesn't work. am i mixing up definitions of libraries? still, in verbose output, it shows that the path i hoped to create is not searched. i know there's been a lot of talk about [declare] (and [import]) on the list, but it apparently didn't give me enough info to sort this out. if i understood correctly, [declare] is different from [import] in that it does its thing at startup rather than when banged? i couldn't find a description in the pdpedia of either--i'll be happy to make that entry as soon as i understand how they work. help would be greatly appreciated! cheers, robbert
Hallo, robbert van hulzen hat gesagt: // robbert van hulzen wrote:
just downloaded last night's autobuild--looks very nice! i understand the wish for flexible colours etc, but hc, thanks a lot for the work! there is something however that i don't understand: why is it that pd-ext doesn't load all the libs it comes with? the .plist it comes with contains 10 entries for loadlib, while in my tweaked prefs file for an earlier version, there are 36.
Hm, not knowing my way around OS-X-Pd, but: This sound bad. Isn't it possible on OS-X to tweak a preference file once and for all and use it with each new Pd version like the ~/.pdrc and ~/.pdsettings files are kept on Linux? Or asked in a different way: how do you make a new pd-extended use a personal plist?
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__
On 07/11/2007, at 10.26, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo, robbert van hulzen hat gesagt: // robbert van hulzen wrote:
just downloaded last night's autobuild--looks very nice! i
understand the wish for flexible colours etc, but hc, thanks a lot for the work! there is something however that i don't understand: why is it that
pd-ext doesn't load all the libs it comes with? the .plist it comes with
contains 10 entries for loadlib, while in my tweaked prefs file for an earlier version, there are 36.Hm, not knowing my way around OS-X-Pd, but: This sound bad.
This is just the same as else where. The prefs panel currently only
shows 10 items.
Isn't it possible on OS-X to tweak a preference file once and for all and use it with each new Pd version like the ~/.pdrc and ~/.pdsettings files are kept on Linux? Or asked in a different way: how do you make a new pd-extended use a personal plist?
That is done by having a preference file (called
org.puredata.pd.plist) in ~/Library/Preferences. To quote Hans [1]:
"Pd-extended.app/Contents/org.puredata.pd.default.plist
This one comes with Pd-extended and sets the default preferences. If
someone creates, ~/Library/Preferences/org.puredata.pd.list, this one
will be ignored.
Pd-extended.app/Contents/org.puredata.pd.plist
If this file is present inside of the Pd-extended.app, then that Pd- extended.app will use those preferences, and ignore any other, always."
This is how it works in the Pd-extended-0.39.2 release and is
intended, as i see it.
That said there might be issues whit this exact feature in the
nightly builds, which relates - directly i think- to what Robbert
experience. See [2] aka bug report #1826701.
[1] <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php? func=detail&aid=1818177&group_id=55736&atid=478073>
[2] <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php? func=detail&aid=1826701&group_id=55736&atid=478070>
Hallo Steffen,
thanks for taking the patience and explain it to me again. Noted for future workshops. ;)
Ciao
Frank
Steffen Juul hat gesagt: // Steffen Juul wrote:
On 07/11/2007, at 10.26, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo, robbert van hulzen hat gesagt: // robbert van hulzen wrote:
just downloaded last night's autobuild--looks very nice! i
understand the wish for flexible colours etc, but hc, thanks a lot for the work! there is something however that i don't understand: why is it that
pd-ext doesn't load all the libs it comes with? the .plist it comes with
contains 10 entries for loadlib, while in my tweaked prefs file for an earlier version, there are 36.Hm, not knowing my way around OS-X-Pd, but: This sound bad.
This is just the same as else where. The prefs panel currently only
shows 10 items.Isn't it possible on OS-X to tweak a preference file once and for all and use it with each new Pd version like the ~/.pdrc and ~/.pdsettings files are kept on Linux? Or asked in a different way: how do you make a new pd-extended use a personal plist?
That is done by having a preference file (called
org.puredata.pd.plist) in ~/Library/Preferences. To quote Hans [1]:"Pd-extended.app/Contents/org.puredata.pd.default.plist
This one comes with Pd-extended and sets the default preferences. If
someone creates, ~/Library/Preferences/org.puredata.pd.list, this one
will be ignored.Pd-extended.app/Contents/org.puredata.pd.plist
If this file is present inside of the Pd-extended.app, then that Pd- extended.app will use those preferences, and ignore any other, always."
This is how it works in the Pd-extended-0.39.2 release and is
intended, as i see it.That said there might be issues whit this exact feature in the
nightly builds, which relates - directly i think- to what Robbert
experience. See [2] aka bug report #1826701.[1] <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php? func=detail&aid=1818177&group_id=55736&atid=478073>
[2] <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php? func=detail&aid=1826701&group_id=55736&atid=478070>
just downloaded last night's autobuild--looks very nice! i understand
the
wish for flexible colours etc, but hc, thanks a lot for the work! there is something however that i don't understand: why is it that
pd-ext
doesn't load all the libs it comes with? the .plist it comes with
contains
10 entries for loadlib, while in my tweaked prefs file for an earlier version, there are 36.
Hi Robert, I'm not sure what you mean when you say "the .plist it comes with"; the .plist is inside the Pd-Extended.app file now so it shouldn't have come with anything that looks like a separate file. If you still have a ~/Library/Preferences/org.puredata.pd.plist you should delete it (after making note of any customizations). Then Pd will use its embedded file instead (which I just checked - it contains 39 loadlib lines in my Pd-0.40.3-extended-20071106 build).
Hm, not knowing my way around OS-X-Pd, but: This sound bad. Isn't it
possible on OS-X to tweak a preference file once and for all and use it with each new Pd version like the ~/.pdrc and ~/.pdsettings files are kept on Linux? Or asked in a different way: how do you make a new pd-extended use a personal plist?
The .pdrc works great on OS X, exactly as one would hope now with the embedded prefs: the embedded prefs take care of configuring Pd-Extended and my .pdrc takes care of adding the things I'm interested in.
Robert, here's an example of .pdrc (just a file called ".pdrc" that lives in your username directory) -path /Users/LukeIannini/PureData/sft:/Users/LukeIannini/PureData/sft/Components:/Users/LukeIannini/PureData/sft/Components/Utilities/Users/LukeIannini/PureData/Extra/Synths/polywavesynth
-lib iemmatrix:iemlib:xsample:zexy -audiobuf 12 -jack
You can make the file in TextEdit if you're sure to choose "Make Plain Text" first, and on 10.5 it lets me save it as ".pdrc" with a warning (since the file will appear as hidden in the Finder), but I can't remember if that works in Tiger. If not, save it as just "pdrc", then open terminal and type "mv pdrc .pdrc".
Cheers Luke
after all the talk how the preferences file on OS X works, this issue remains unresolved.
sorry to nag with this, but there is no point in having an object and not knowing how it works. did ANY OS X user ever manage to use the flag '-stdpath' for the object [declare] in order to add a directory from extra to pd's searchpathes?
roman
On Tue, 2007-11-06 at 20:51 +0100, robbert van hulzen wrote:
hi all & hc, just downloaded last night's autobuild--looks very nice! i understand the wish for flexible colours etc, but hc, thanks a lot for the work! there is something however that i don't understand: why is it that pd-ext doesn't load all the libs it comes with? the .plist it comes with contains 10 entries for loadlib, while in my tweaked prefs file for an earlier version, there are 36. i thought this problem might be a good reason to learn what [declare] is all about, but i didn't manage: [declare -lib ext13 -path /Applications/Pd-0.40.3-extended-20071106.app/Contents/Resources/extra/ext13 /] didn't do it, and neither did variations on the path. according to the help file (not included in the ext build), "you may use a full path name", so i'm wondering what i'm doing wrong... also [declare -lib ext13 /App...blablah] (as quoted by roman in an earlier post) doesn't work. am i mixing up definitions of libraries? still, in verbose output, it shows that the path i hoped to create is not searched. i know there's been a lot of talk about [declare] (and [import]) on the list, but it apparently didn't give me enough info to sort this out. if i understood correctly, [declare] is different from [import] in that it does its thing at startup rather than when banged? i couldn't find a description in the pdpedia of either--i'll be happy to make that entry as soon as i understand how they work. help would be greatly appreciated! cheers, robbert
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On 07/11/2007, at 22.41, Roman Haefeli wrote:
did ANY OS X user ever manage to use the flag '-stdpath' for the object [declare] in order to add a directory from extra to pd's searchpathes?
I (of cause) can awnser that question, but say that i can't make work.
This is what i did for testing:
Made a folder in extra called test. In that i made an abstraction
called testing.pd which was just a wrapper around a [print].
Then i made a new test patch which as: [declare -stdpath extra/test] [testing]
Saved that. An loaded it again. But [testing] couldn't create. That
is surpricing since it's what the help file promise.
But the odd things don't end here. I think. Check this out:
$ pwd /Applications/Pd-0.40-2.app/Contents/Resources/extra $ ls -l | cut -c 1-10,47-89 total 192 -rw-r--r-- README.txt drwxr-xr-x bonk~ drwxr-xr-x choice -rw-r--r-- complex-mod~-help.pd -rw-r--r-- complex-mod~.pd -rw-r--r-- expr-help.pd lrwxr-xr-x expr.d_fat -> expr~/expr.d_fat drwxr-xr-x expr~ lrwxr-xr-x expr~.d_fat -> expr~/expr~.d_fat lrwxr-xr-x fexpr~.d_fat -> expr~/fexpr~.d_fat drwxr-xr-x fiddle~ -rw-r--r-- hilbert~-help.pd -rw-r--r-- hilbert~.pd drwxr-xr-x loop~ drwxr-xr-x lrshift~ -rw-r--r-- makefile drwxr-xr-x pique -rw-r--r-- rev1-final.pd -rw-r--r-- rev1-stage.pd -rw-r--r-- rev1~-help.pd -rw-r--r-- rev1~.pd -rw-r--r-- rev2~-help.pd -rw-r--r-- rev2~.pd -rw-r--r-- rev3~-help.pd -rw-r--r-- rev3~.pd drwxr-xr-x sigmund~ drwxr-xr-x test i$
Then consider that my preference .plist is empty. Ie. it doesn't add
the folder fiddle~ to the search path. The odd thing is then, that
the [fiddle~] object creates just fine anyways.
Hallo, Steffen Juul hat gesagt: // Steffen Juul wrote:
This is what i did for testing:
Made a folder in extra called test. In that i made an abstraction
called testing.pd which was just a wrapper around a [print].Then i made a new test patch which as: [declare -stdpath extra/test] [testing]
Okay, here's another test you could do to find out where declare tries to add the stdpath
Make a patch with [declare -stdpath funkypathname] or another unique name you definitely know doesn't exist, then load it while Pd was started with "-verbose". Try to create an unknown object like [unknown] and search for "funkypathname" in Pd's error output.
Btw.: When doing this on Linux with a testpatch in "/tmp/funkytest.pd" my Pd searches for [unknown] give only /tmp/funkypathname/ as possible results with the funky pathname, which is wrong: according to the docs, -stdpath should search relative to the Pd binary, not relative to the path, which is what [declare -path ...] should do. Looks like another [declare]-bug. (Maybe already reported?)
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__
On 08/11/2007, at 14.50, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo, Steffen Juul hat gesagt: // Steffen Juul wrote:
This is what i did for testing:
Made a folder in extra called test. In that i made an abstraction called testing.pd which was just a wrapper around a [print].
Then i made a new test patch which as: [declare -stdpath extra/test] [testing]
Okay, here's another test you could do to find out where declare tries to add the stdpath
Make a patch with [declare -stdpath funkypathname] or another unique name you definitely know doesn't exist, then load it while Pd was started with "-verbose". Try to create an unknown object like [unknown] and search for "funkypathname" in Pd's error output.
Verbose. Clever, Frank!
Now i also got the awnser to the other question. It will look for
[fiddle~] in a fiddle~ folder in extra - or any other folder in the
path. I had no idea.
That basically mean that if an objectclass live in a folder baring
the same name as the objectclass the it will be found. Fx having
extra/grid/grid.pd(_<platform>)
will mean that a [grid] object will be fund and created _without_
specifying it in the search-path settings...
Btw.: When doing this on Linux with a testpatch in "/tmp/funkytest.pd" my Pd searches for [unknown] give only /tmp/funkypathname/ as possible results with the funky pathname,
Here, on OS X, it looks for funkypathname in ${HOME}/Desktop. There
is no search in /tmp.
which is wrong: according to the docs, -stdpath should search relative to the Pd binary, not relative to the path, which is what [declare -path ...] should do.
On OS X, when Pd is installed as a .app application, the binary isn't
located such that extra is one step up in the folder tree. So as such
the example and the definition of the behavior in the help file
contradicts.
Looks like another [declare]-bug. (Maybe already reported?)
Don't know if Roman already did. Searching for 'declare' in the
tracker only shows up your report.
On 08/11/2007, at 17.45, Steffen Juul wrote:
On 08/11/2007, at 14.50, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Btw.: When doing this on Linux with a testpatch in "/tmp/ funkytest.pd" my Pd searches for [unknown] give only /tmp/funkypathname/ as
possible results with the funky pathname,Here, on OS X, it looks for funkypathname in ${HOME}/Desktop. There is no search in /tmp.
Dum bum. I must add a note. The test patch was located in ${HOME}/
Desktop. I tested other locations too. So its like -stdpath was doing
it's thing relative to the Pd path. Just as in your test.
can i ask a silly question? what's the difference between -path and -stdpath? -path just uses that path once? in any case, i didn't get that to work either--and from previous posts, it seems other people did. or not on osx? however, i sorted things out with the prefs file, so i guess i won't need [declare], not at the moment. cheers, robbert
"Roman Haefeli" reduzierer@yahoo.de wrote:
after all the talk how the preferences file on OS X works, this issue remains unresolved.
sorry to nag with this, but there is no point in having an object and not knowing how it works. did ANY OS X user ever manage to use the flag '-stdpath' for the object [declare] in order to add a directory from extra to pd's searchpathes?
hi robbert
you're question is not silly at all, since there seems to be no help-file anymore at all, that could be consulted.
iirc, the '-path' option adds a path, that could be specified relatively to the patch, that holds the [declare]. as i understand it, it can be used for projects, that have a structure like this:
mainpatch.pd \ directory/someabstractions.pd | otherdirectory/moreabstractions.pd
with a [declare -path directory -path otherdirectory] in mainpatch.pd it is easy to distribute the whole project and it will work everywhere without havin to modify the pd-settingsfile. and unlike a path from the pd-settings, the classes [someabstraction] and [moreabstractions] are only available in mainpatch.pd (which means: pathes added by [declare] don't add pathes to pd's searchpathes in general, but only to the patch's searchpathes)
- it is basically the same
the option '-stdpath' does add pathes relative to 'Pd' (whatever this means). as far as i understand, you can use it to add a directory from extra to the patch's searchpathes. this could be practical, if you have two different patches open, and one uses [counter] from 'extra/cyclone' and the other uses a [counter] from 'extra/<i_dont_know>'.
- it is basically the same, as you would create [cyclone/counter] and
[<i_dont_know>/counter].
when specifying absolute pathes, '-stdpath' and '-path' shouldn't make any difference, afaik.
afaik, it is the same with '-stdlib' and '-lib', but in this case the classes are loaded for all patches, not only for the one, that holds the [declare].
however, there seem to be a bug with '-stdpath' on os x.
roman
On Thu, 2007-11-08 at 20:49 +0100, robbert van hulzen wrote:
can i ask a silly question? what's the difference between -path and -stdpath? -path just uses that path once? in any case, i didn't get that to work either--and from previous posts, it seems other people did. or not on osx? however, i sorted things out with the prefs file, so i guess i won't need [declare], not at the moment. cheers, robbert
"Roman Haefeli" reduzierer@yahoo.de wrote:
after all the talk how the preferences file on OS X works, this issue remains unresolved.
sorry to nag with this, but there is no point in having an object and not knowing how it works. did ANY OS X user ever manage to use the flag '-stdpath' for the object [declare] in order to add a directory from extra to pd's searchpathes?
Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de
On Thu, 2007-11-08 at 22:01 +0100, Steffen Juul wrote:
On 08/11/2007, at 21.34, Roman Haefeli wrote:
however, there seem to be a bug with '-stdpath' on os x.
Does it work as you'd think on your system?
yeah, i can instantiate [bp2~] from extra/iemabs, if i have a
[declare -stdpath ../extra/iemabs]
in my patch.
(note: [declare] doesn't add the path immediately, you have to save and open the patch again)
what in practice is '../extra/iemabs' is in the help of [declare] called 'relative to pd'. miller said once, that 'pd' is by some mistake assumed to be in pd/src. that is why it is required to prepend '../' before 'extra/somelib'.
roman
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Hallo, Roman Haefeli hat gesagt: // Roman Haefeli wrote:
you're question is not silly at all, since there seems to be no help-file anymore at all, that could be consulted.
Seems it's missing in the CVS, probable Miller forgot to check it in. It's in the archive on Miller's site, though.
Attached is the one from http://crca.ucsd.edu/~msp/Software/pd-0.41-0test06.src.tar.gz
the option '-stdpath' does add pathes relative to 'Pd' (whatever this means).
Good question. The help file seems unfinished when talking about "relative to the Pd": "the Pd" what? ;)
I wrongly assumed it was relative to the Pd binary, which on Linux e.g. is in /usr/bin/pd but actually now I believe it means relative to the Pd "stdpath" which is the directory above "extra", "doc" and "bin" i.e. /usr/lib/pd in Linux. This would somehow correspond to the "-stdpath" command line option, that enables searching in "extra".
At least this would make more sense, as the binary may be everywhere in the system search path for executable so it wouldn't be useful to specify a path relative to that.
Anyway see my other mail: -stdpath seems to be broken in 0.40.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__
-
Frank Barknecht -
Luke Iannini (pd) -
robbert van hulzen -
Roman Haefeli -
Steffen Juul