thanks frank... that helps. I still don't have it working right but i'll get it. Another quick question... shouldn't the extended version have done all that though. The only rradical files i can find are the ones i downloaded for your site. Where does the extended version place all its files ... like the tutorials, and example, cem, rradical patches.... i can't seem to find them. are they some how embedded and inaccessable ... that wouldn't be very Pd like, so i guess i'm not looking in the right places. But searches i do, i only come across the files i've downloaded previously before the extended version... know what i mean.

But like you said, i'll learn to compile things myself. but man i really want to get going with this... if it's been this difficult for me to install properly ... i hate to think of the trouble i might have making the sort of patches i want to make. Then again i'm used to logic and like programs where you can push a button.. it installs and within the day you can have track done. I guess i'm not going to get instant gratification with PD so i need to be patient with myself and not give up. But at the same time i don't want to wait 2 yrs b 4 i have something that i can use. I'll stop venting.... anyway... thanks for the help

matt