On Apr 17, 2006, at 4:17 PM, Mark Polishook wrote:
Sorry, I meant to send to the list but pressed reply instead of
reply all.
Let's take it back on the list!
On Apr 17, 2006, at 8:39 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Possibly. But I need to think about it a bit more. One issue with
documentation in general that I'm not sure about is "who is the
documentation for?"I'm writing a tutorial for my students. So that's the context of
thinking about it. Figuring out - how to rewrite existing materials
at the level they come to things such as Pd.
I am also in the midst of the process of writing an intro tutorial.
Right now, I am going thru all of the workshop/tutorial materials I
can find (mostly listed on http://puredata.org/docs/tutorials ) and
putting together a tutorial for people to start from scratch. It
would be great to join forces on this.
All of my work is in CVS, plus I put up some archives on the web:
http://puredata.org/Members/hans/downloads/
Well, if you just want to take a stab at it, you can start another
wiki page. As for who this documentation is for, I think that the
definitions should be for everyone. I am all for making things
clear for the beginner, but I think that over-simplifying things
hinders learning in the long run. But of course that's not easy
to do.Most of the existing documentation is excellent for those with some
programming experience and computer skills but less helpful for
complete beginners - this is not unique to Pd. Asking about the
target audience is similar to a writer thinking about their
audience. So perhaps the question is what's the level that
materials should consider.
I think what we've discussed in relation to PDDP is making things
modular. So there would be tutorial modules for each topic then
intro modules for the newbies. The more advanced users could skip
the intro modules, or there could also be advanced intro modules,
like Pd for Maxers, Pd for OO Programmers, etc. But if we can use
the various intros to get people to a similar level, then the other
topic-specific tutorials would go from there.
I am trying to put together the intro for newbies right now, with the
basic assumption that the user knows how to use a standard WIMP GUI
(I don't think that a Pd tutorial would be the best place to learn
how to navigate a GUI). I think its decent as it is right now, but
still needs a number of gaps filled in. But our goal is to avoid
writing a manual, per se, like the Max/MSP tutorial, but rather have
the whole intro be in the form of step-by-step tutorial patches. So
learning by doing from the very beginning.
I'm going to take a try at it, but the outcome will not be
immediate.Oonce we get to May, I'm hoping to join in to PDDP
discussion(s).
The more, the merrier! Plus the more people contribute, the better
the docs will be. I personally have found it enlightening to hear
many different perspectives on teaching.
.hc
.hc
.hc
- In the attached patch, I added symbols as you suggested.
Why do I get the output: "list setUnit quarter" for example, instead of
just "setUnit quarter"? Where is this list coming from--pack by definition
creates a list, so this behavior makes little sense.[pack] outputs real Pd lists, which have a "list" selector at
front unless the first element is a float. Everything is correct in your patch. If you want a "setUnit"-meta-message without the list
selector you can split it off using [list trim] (pd>=0.39) or [route list] (others).Oh, and I can't use [list append] because I'm trying to
combine two symbols INTO a list, and list append doesn't like the symbol
in the right inlet.This isn't quite true: [list] and [list append] perfectly accept symbol- and meta-messages in both inlets. I suppose you are
running a Pd version which doesn't have the [list] objects yet. Older Pd versions still allowed you to create a [list] object, but it
was non functional.
- How can I found out all this list stuff? It's undocumented
in my PD version... I never heard of [list append] or [list prepend]
before, they seem to work but I can't pull up any help files on them.You need to update your Pd. If you cannot do this globally, you
should at least install some version of Pd-0.39 for testing purposes.
[list] is exxxxxtremely conventient. After you've tasted its sewwt
odour, you don't want to go back to list-less Pd again."[list] for life." (Iggy Pop)
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_
__goto10.org__
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"[W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we
are deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from
scarcity." -John Gilmore
I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and
during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man
for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers.
- General Smedley Butler
-
Hans-Christoph Steiner