----- "Mathieu Bouchard" matju@artengine.ca a écrit :
On Tue, 9 Nov 2010, patko wrote:
Hello, we dont put accidental alterations to armature, we usually
put it
before a note, and eventually in parentheses.
Hello, I'm talking about which armature should be considered implied when trying to display a note. E.g. suppose I have an [armature] object (hypothetical class) which shows a certain number of alterations. How do I communicate that info to nearby [note] objects, which should display notes relatively to that armature ?
I'm thinking about additions, by using a dimension value for the number of notes in a scale, and a value corresponding with alteration, so G major scale would look like this [7 # 0 0 0 1 0 0 0(.
Before this the midi notes needs to be scaled, with that way it's possible to make up any scale maybe it would be better to use another class object for the scale as well.
Also you might be interested by this:
http://strasheela.sourceforge.net/strasheela/examples/Output/05-MicrotonalCh...
we see microtones indicated by signs upside the note, not in the armature, neither on the ladder, this is clean, easier to read than microtonal 'flat up' , or microtonal 'natural down' signs
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC
Also you might be interested by this:
http://strasheela.sourceforge.net/strasheela/examples/Output/05-MicrotonalCh...
we see microtones indicated by signs upside the note, not in the
armature, neither on the ladder, this is clean, easier to read than microtonal 'flat up' , or microtonal
'natural down' signs
I'm just giving the viewpoint of a composer who works with modern notation
here.
I've never seen this standard before. I'm sure that if I see any reference
about it I'll understand how it works, but this isn't anything that has
been widely used (if at all) in written music. Since there are already
several notation standards out there which are widely used, any solution
that might be programmed should use these standards. Or in the end it come
out a nice object, but not really usable by musicians (which was the first
topic of this thread).
Can we have a view of one of these pieces written with "modern notation"?
just to have a clue about what we are saying in here.
I've played several pieces where composers like K. H. Stockhausen used their own notation, not based on a standard, in fact there is no standard for microtonal music because:
1/ this style doesn't exist since a significant enough amount of time.
2/ actually many different styles of microtonal music emerge from different composers that uses their own notation system.
3/ no one (that I know) has been able to find an harmonical relationship that would introduce a real notation system like we have in classical music notation.
Also the notation example I've proposed does exist, I couldn't post a screenshot otherwise.
well that was my two cents, I'm proposing solutions, I'm not trying to sell my stuff.
Selon João Pais jmmmpais@googlemail.com:
Also you might be interested by this:
http://strasheela.sourceforge.net/strasheela/examples/Output/05-MicrotonalCh...
we see microtones indicated by signs upside the note, not in the armature, neither on the ladder, this is clean, easier to read than microtonal 'flat up' , or microtonal 'natural down' signs
I'm just giving the viewpoint of a composer who works with modern notation here. I've never seen this standard before. I'm sure that if I see any reference about it I'll understand how it works, but this isn't anything that has been widely used (if at all) in written music. Since there are already several notation standards out there which are widely used, any solution that might be programmed should use these standards. Or in the end it come out a nice object, but not really usable by musicians (which was the first topic of this thread).
Can we have a view of one of these pieces written with "modern
notation"?just to have a clue about what we are saying in here.
I don't have the time now to look for scores with didactic examples. I
made a small image which has the most used examples (or they wouldn't be
in sibelius). inside the black area [only the upper row, I notice now] are
the mostly used for 1/2 (chromatic) and 1/4-tone notation.
The accidentals with arrows can be interpreted on different ways depending
on the composer, but in most cases mean smaller inflection than 1/4 tone.
They can also mean a) 8th or 16th tones b) 1/4 tones (if the composer
doesn't use many) c) unscaled deviations, like natural harmonics d) 1/3
tones e) something else.
But main point is, they're used quite often, even if there's no standard
as traditional as for chromatic notation.
I guess main composers I was thinking of are Grisey, Ferneyhough, some
Nono, and lots of young people I know (more or less personally).
For example, my old composition teacher, Spahlinger, has a system for
32th-tones, but that I don't find it to be a standard.
I've played several pieces where composers like K. H. Stockhausen used
their own notation, not based on a standard, in fact there is no standard for
microtonal
the scores I have from Stockhausen are not microtonal yet, they're before
the Licht period. which scores are you talking about?
music because:
1/ this style doesn't exist since a significant enough amount of time.
true, notated microtonal music is around one century old now, although no
one play Wyschnegradsky or Hába nowadays. only from/after the 60s it
really kicked in in a systematic way.
2/ actually many different styles of microtonal music emerge from
different composers that uses their own notation system.
that was more the case in the 60s-80s - and the sudden notation expansion
happened with any kind of musical parameters, not just with pitch
notation. nowadays it's becoming slowly a standard, one symptom of it is
that all main notation programs offer the symbols I sent. also composers
nowadays are thinking more of 1/4 (and 1/8 tones) as part of the tempered
scale - of course, not all. and also depending on the geographic
(cultural) location.
3/ no one (that I know) has been able to find an harmonical relationship
that would introduce a real notation system like we have in classical music
notation.
don't know if I understand the problem exactly. anyway these systems are
built upon the classical "tonal" notation system, which doesn't make much
sense nowadays if we consider that each note is equal to each other,
instead of having a diatonic scale.
but I don't know if I understood what you meant, and if it even is that
important for the use of these symbols.
On Tue, 9 Nov 2010, patko wrote:
I'm thinking about additions, by using a dimension value for the number of notes in a scale, and a value corresponding with alteration, so G major scale would look like this [7 # 0 0 0 1 0 0 0(.
You don't need to write the "7 #" part, because you are already stating all seven values, in the default type, and you have only one dimension.
It seems like a good idea, though I have some questions about how to convert a midi note number into the appropriate drawing, but I think It'll be clearer if I cough up a prototype first.
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC
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