On Jul 5, 2020, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-request@lists.iem.at wrote:
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2020 22:25:55 +0200 From: Antoine Villeret <antoine.villeret@gmail.com mailto:antoine.villeret@gmail.com> To: Pd-List <pd-list@lists.iem.at mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at> Subject: Re: [PD] Pd 0.50-2 on macos 11.0 BigSur beta Message-ID: <CAGn5wNdPE4PqDCNiXEQLpP=NTPy33P+e0b=iXvSs8t=pYif6qg@mail.gmail.com mailto:CAGn5wNdPE4PqDCNiXEQLpP=NTPy33P+e0b=iXvSs8t=pYif6qg@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi Miller,
0.51-0 ? How could I have missed it ? but this is the same as with 0.50-2 : patcher window is not rendered but Pd Console does.
Try this build: Pd-0.50-0-saveas-fix-tk867.zip http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/0.51/Pd-0.50-0-saveas-fix-tk867.zip It may have permissions issues, but you should be able to see if the canvas renders. It's a previous test build with the Tcl / Tk 8.6 frameworks included.
Putting aside the fact you are are asking for support for running Pd on the *first beta* of an un-released OS, the likely culprit is, as usual, Tk. The development of Tk on macOS is pretty slow and behind on support using the Cocoa frameworks. Basically, everything worked well with the previous Carbon frameworks, but we still have continuing problems with bugs related to the switch to Cocoa. This is not a "damn Apple changes everything all the time" issue but a "Apple warned us about the transition many years ahead, but everything worked and we didn't bother to deal with it until it was almost too late" issue. My impressions is that there is maybe only 1 or 2 Tk developers keeping things working on macOS.
Currently, we are distributing Pd for macOS with the Tcl / Tk 8.5 frameworks included which are built manually and applying a couple of custom patches. This works for now, but is not sustainable as newer systems can longer build Tk 8.5 (mine included) *and* we have perhaps now hit the point to where newer systems will also need a newer version of Tk to run Pd at all.
The best solution would be to provide a native Cocoa build with Tk as Cocoa itself is *very* stable in my experience, but that is for another discussion.
I also tried to install XQuartz and run Pd from its terminal. No more success unfortunately.
That will not help as XQuartz has not been needed by newer Pd versions on macOS for many years now.
Don't hesitate to ask me if I can help doing more tests. And please, avoid buying a Mac...
I have intimated this before, but perhaps I should now just say it:
Can some institution which relies on using Pd with macOS simply buy Miller and/or the Pd community a new Mac mini to support development efforts on the platform for the next 10 years? This is not too much to ask, especially if you lump it into the "year end" budget category.
Dan Wilcox @danomatika http://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com http://danomatika.com/ robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com/
Try this build: Pd-0.50-0-saveas-fix-tk867.zip
http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/0.51/Pd-0.50-0-saveas-fix-tk867.zip It may have permissions issues, but you should be able to see if the canvas renders. It's a previous test build with the Tcl / Tk 8.6 frameworks included.
The app doesn't launch and show this error : [image: image.png]
That build is too old and doesn't;t have the correct adhoc signing.
Try this build which is Pd 0.51-0 with the Tcl / Tk 8.6.7 frameworks: Pd-0.51-0-tk867.zip http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/0.51/Pd-0.51-0-tk867.zip
On Jul 6, 2020, at 1:50 PM, Antoine Villeret antoine.villeret@gmail.com wrote:
Try this build: Pd-0.50-0-saveas-fix-tk867.zip http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/0.51/Pd-0.50-0-saveas-fix-tk867.zip It may have permissions issues, but you should be able to see if the canvas renders. It's a previous test build with the Tcl / Tk 8.6 frameworks included.
The app doesn't launch and show this error : <image.png>
Dan Wilcox @danomatika http://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com http://danomatika.com/ robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com/
Same error, app doesn't launch
But I think I manage to embed Wish 8.6.7 in the app with the following :
$ mac/tcltk-wish.sh 8.6.7
$ mac/osx-app.sh --wish Wish-8.6.7.app Pd-51.0-wish867
Then the Pd-51.0-wish867.app launches but the console is blank and patcher too. The patcher window shows up but remains empty when I add some object.
It looks like : https://pasteboard.co/JgoFq6n.png
Le lun. 6 juil. 2020 à 14:14, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com a écrit :
That build is too old and doesn't;t have the correct adhoc signing.
Try this build which is Pd 0.51-0 with the Tcl / Tk 8.6.7 frameworks: Pd-0.51-0-tk867.zip http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/0.51/Pd-0.51-0-tk867.zip
On Jul 6, 2020, at 1:50 PM, Antoine Villeret antoine.villeret@gmail.com wrote:
Try this build: Pd-0.50-0-saveas-fix-tk867.zip
http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/0.51/Pd-0.50-0-saveas-fix-tk867.zip It may have permissions issues, but you should be able to see if the canvas renders. It's a previous test build with the Tcl / Tk 8.6 frameworks included.
The app doesn't launch and show this error : <image.png>
Dan Wilcox @danomatika http://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Also.... did you try it with Dark Mode disabled? It could be drawing the canvas fine, it's just black on black.
On Jul 6, 2020, at 2:14 PM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
That build is too old and doesn't;t have the correct adhoc signing.
Try this build which is Pd 0.51-0 with the Tcl / Tk 8.6.7 frameworks: Pd-0.51-0-tk867.zip http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/0.51/Pd-0.51-0-tk867.zip
On Jul 6, 2020, at 1:50 PM, Antoine Villeret <antoine.villeret@gmail.com mailto:antoine.villeret@gmail.com> wrote:
Try this build: Pd-0.50-0-saveas-fix-tk867.zip http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/0.51/Pd-0.50-0-saveas-fix-tk867.zip It may have permissions issues, but you should be able to see if the canvas renders. It's a previous test build with the Tcl / Tk 8.6 frameworks included.
The app doesn't launch and show this error : <image.png>
Dan Wilcox @danomatika http://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com http://danomatika.com/ robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com/
Dan Wilcox @danomatika http://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com http://danomatika.com/ robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com/
good idea but no, it's not related to appearance setting
Le lun. 6 juil. 2020 à 18:15, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com a écrit :
Also.... did you try it with Dark Mode disabled? It could be drawing the canvas fine, it's just black on black.
On Jul 6, 2020, at 2:14 PM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
That build is too old and doesn't;t have the correct adhoc signing.
Try this build which is Pd 0.51-0 with the Tcl / Tk 8.6.7 frameworks: Pd-0.51-0-tk867.zip http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/0.51/Pd-0.51-0-tk867.zip
On Jul 6, 2020, at 1:50 PM, Antoine Villeret antoine.villeret@gmail.com wrote:
Try this build: Pd-0.50-0-saveas-fix-tk867.zip
http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/0.51/Pd-0.50-0-saveas-fix-tk867.zip It may have permissions issues, but you should be able to see if the canvas renders. It's a previous test build with the Tcl / Tk 8.6 frameworks included.
The app doesn't launch and show this error : <image.png>
Dan Wilcox @danomatika http://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Dan Wilcox @danomatika http://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Just to respond to one item here...
I have intimated this before, but perhaps I should now just say it:
Can some institution which relies on using Pd with macOS simply buy Miller and/or the Pd community a new Mac mini to support development efforts on the platform for the next 10 years? This is not too much to ask, especially if you lump it into the "year end" budget category.
I can buy myself a macmini if it came to it. But this gives me the idea that my own department should be running Mac VMs - there are three faculty and several grad students developing software here and having 2 or 3 versions of MacOS running on VMs might make our lives a lot easier. I'm going to start by asking them to set up MacOS 11 :)
M
Dan Wilcox @danomatika <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://twitter.com/danomatika__;!!Mih3wA!RUqFkki... > danomatika.com <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://danomatika.com/__;!!Mih3wA!RUqFkkiW3vGgkh... > robotcowboy.com <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://robotcowboy.com/__;!!Mih3wA!RUqFkkiW3vGgk... >
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Yeah, VMs could be a good solution. I didn't mean my suggestion to sound "anti-Miller" but more a response when I hear "I cannot code but I want to help with Pd development." :)
I have just 1 laptop and generally don't upgrade until a month or so after a new OS release or at least when there is downtime between projects. This time around, I am skipping macOS 10.15. This means I'm slow in testing new versions, personally.
I could probably buy a Mac mini as well and set up a testing / build system, but I think my point is more toward pushing for a little more institutional support for some of these common issues. I think Joe Deken's university connections are also ready and willing for remote computing / hosting capacity, if I recall correctly. It's a good idea to find ways to spread the technical debt around.
On Jul 6, 2020, at 6:47 PM, Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu wrote:
Just to respond to one item here...
I have intimated this before, but perhaps I should now just say it:
Can some institution which relies on using Pd with macOS simply buy Miller and/or the Pd community a new Mac mini to support development efforts on the platform for the next 10 years? This is not too much to ask, especially if you lump it into the "year end" budget category.
I can buy myself a macmini if it came to it. But this gives me the idea that my own department should be running Mac VMs - there are three faculty and several grad students developing software here and having 2 or 3 versions of MacOS running on VMs might make our lives a lot easier. I'm going to start by asking them to set up MacOS 11 :)
M
Dan Wilcox @danomatika http://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com http://danomatika.com/ robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com/
The build farm used by Pd-extended worked very well for me. It would be nice to have such a setup integrated with the deken system, so anyone could upload their externals and they would be built and packaged online instead of each developer needing to acquire one of each machine on a 3-year rolling plan.
Martin
On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 1:28 PM Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Yeah, VMs could be a good solution. I didn't mean my suggestion to sound "anti-Miller" but more a response when I hear "I cannot code but I want to help with Pd development." :)
I have just 1 laptop and generally don't upgrade until a month or so after a new OS release or at least when there is downtime between projects. This time around, I am skipping macOS 10.15. This means I'm slow in testing new versions, personally.
I could probably buy a Mac mini as well and set up a testing / build system, but I think my point is more toward pushing for a little more institutional support for some of these common issues. I think Joe Deken's university connections are also ready and willing for remote computing / hosting capacity, if I recall correctly. It's a good idea to find ways to spread the technical debt around.
On Jul 6, 2020, at 6:47 PM, Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu wrote:
Just to respond to one item here...
I have intimated this before, but perhaps I should now just say it:
Can some institution which relies on using Pd with macOS simply buy Miller and/or the Pd community a new Mac mini to support development efforts on the platform for the next 10 years? This is not too much to ask, especially if you lump it into the "year end" budget category.
I can buy myself a macmini if it came to it. But this gives me the idea that my own department should be running Mac VMs - there are three faculty and several grad students developing software here and having 2 or 3 versions of MacOS running on VMs might make our lives a lot easier. I'm going to start by asking them to set up MacOS 11 :)
M
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
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