(Bringing it back to the list.)
There has been a performance regression in Pd 0.56-test1 that sounds
very similar to yours:
https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/2654. However, that one
has been resolved since the final 0.56 release. (I've just tested to
make sure.)
> If I create a new empty GOP, and put 4 of these buttons in it, and
> duplicate that GOP 32 times, I start getting glitches when mousing
> around.
I just made a patch with 64 GOP subpatches, each containing 4 instances
of your abstraction. Then I tried to quickly move the mouse over the
canvas. Here are my results:
Pd 0.56-1: [iemlib/dsp~] reports an average load of 7-10% and occasional
peak loads of up to 28%.
Pd 0.55-2: [iemlib/dsp~] reports an average load of 0.5-1% and
occasional peaks of up to 3%.
In both cases, the average idle load (with DSP turned on) is 0.5-1%.
(Tested on a Windows 10 laptop with an AMD Ryzen 7 PRO 5850U.)
So there is indeed a noticable performance regression! Please open a
ticket on GitHub!
Christof
On 11.09.2025 00:56, Brady Sharp wrote:
> So yes, I've got LOTS of GOP's, and GOP's within GOP's, probably up to
> 3 layers deep in some places.
> I've eliminated the input streaming factor and just added a [osc~ 440]
> going direct to [dac~] within the patch.
>
> In PD-0.56-1:
> Running iem/dsp~, it shows a 38%-ish CPU load, and a 35%-ish Mean CPU
> Load when idle.
> As I mouse over the canvas, it goes crazy, like 190% Peak, 85% Mean,
> adn audio glitches, until I stop moving the mouse, or move off the canvas.
> But the oddest part is, I can freely drag around these multi-layer
> GOP's, and there are no audio glitches and the DSP metering stays the
> same.
> It's only when moving the mouse without dragging anything that it has
> the issue.
>
> In PD-0.55-1:
> DSP peaks around 40%-ish, with a mean of about 36%-ish, no matter what
> I do with the mouse. Audio stays consistent.
>
> Going back to PD-0.56-1:
> I put in the [osc~ 440] into the [dac~] again, and just started
> deleting swaths of my GOP abstractions.
> Picture these as modular guitar effects. Lets say I loosely have
> about 32 of them (with vastly different DSP requirements, but I really
> don't think that's the issue). These are GOP's within GOP's, mostly 2
> levels deep for the most part.
> I have to reduce them to about 6 before I stop getting dropouts while
> moving the mouse.
>
> After starting from scratch with a new patch with just an
> [osc~]->[dac~], I think I've found an abstraction that triggers it.Â
> It's basically a Midi Assign button. It IS a very small GOP
> abstraction, and of course I've got probably 120 of them in my
> performance patch. Basically [asnbtn 5] creates a button labelled
> "5." on the GOP, that can be used to assign a midi command to an
> effect parameter. There really isn't much to it. there is no audio
> DSP on it at all, just message routing. If I create a new empty GOP,
> and put 4 of these buttons in it, and duplicate that GOP 32 times, I
> start getting glitches when mousing around.
>
> Again, ONLY in pd-0.56-1.
>
> Abstraction is attached for reference.
>
> If this is appropriate to post to the github, I'm happy to, I'm just
> making sure it's nothing exclusive to my PC.
> I'm happy for more testing suggestions if there are any.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brady
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 10, 2025 at 2:27 PM Christof Ressi
> <info(a)christofressi.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>> Only starting in 0.56-1, whenever I move my mouse cursor, I'm
>> getting audio glitching that corresponds to the mouse movement as
>> it moves across the PD Canvas.
> Does it only happen if the canvas contains many objects or many
> GOPs? Or does it also happen with an empty canvas?
>
> What's the CPU usage of the "pd" process and the "wish" process
> when you're moving the mouse?
>
> Christof
>
> On 10.09.2025 19:29, Brady Sharp wrote:
>> Hi Folks,
>>
>> Only starting in 0.56-1, whenever I move my mouse cursor, I'm
>> getting audio glitching that corresponds to the mouse movement as
>> it moves across the PD Canvas.
>> Ironically, this is just when hovering the mouse over the canvas
>> and moving it. If I pick up a GOP subpatch and drag it, the
>> audio glitching goes away! If I move the mouse outside of the PD
>> Canvas, it also goes away.
>> I'm running on an old Core 2 duo 6300 laptop (8gb RAM) with a
>> reasonably complicated patch (takes about 10 seconds to load),
>> but adding any other apps in the background doesn't seem to
>> affect it in any way.
>> Increasing audio delay or audio block size settings has no effect
>> either. PD's DPS block size always stays at 64. I tried
>> recreating the preferences file as well.
>> Ruled out a USB Mouse and a USB Hub and all MIDI devices as
>> well. Those don't seem to matter.
>>
>> Running latest Manjaro with XFCE desktop (X11) with pd 0.56-1,
>> and using Pipewire (JACK)
>>
>> 0.55-1 still works great and has none of these symptoms under the
>> same conditions.
>> Both versions are compiled, ie. not using the pd packaged with
>> Manjaro.
>>
>> Because of the behavior above, it leads me to think something has
>> changed with either PD or TCL...
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> Thanks in advance!
>>
>>
>> --
>> Brady Sharp
>> bradysharp(a)gmail.com
>> bradysharp.com <http://bradysharp.com>
>>
>> ---
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> --
> Brady Sharp
> bradysharp(a)gmail.com
> bradysharp.com <http://bradysharp.com>
Hi Folks,
Only starting in 0.56-1, whenever I move my mouse cursor, I'm getting audio
glitching that corresponds to the mouse movement as it moves across the PD
Canvas.
Ironically, this is just when hovering the mouse over the canvas and moving
it. If I pick up a GOP subpatch and drag it, the audio glitching goes
away! If I move the mouse outside of the PD Canvas, it also goes away.
I'm running on an old Core 2 duo 6300 laptop (8gb RAM) with a reasonably
complicated patch (takes about 10 seconds to load), but adding any other
apps in the background doesn't seem to affect it in any way.
Increasing audio delay or audio block size settings has no effect either.
PD's DPS block size always stays at 64. I tried recreating the preferences
file as well.
Ruled out a USB Mouse and a USB Hub and all MIDI devices as well. Those
don't seem to matter.
Running latest Manjaro with XFCE desktop (X11) with pd 0.56-1, and using
Pipewire (JACK)
0.55-1 still works great and has none of these symptoms under the same
conditions.
Both versions are compiled, ie. not using the pd packaged with Manjaro.
Because of the behavior above, it leads me to think something has changed
with either PD or TCL...
Any thoughts?
Thanks in advance!
--
Brady Sharp
bradysharp(a)gmail.com
bradysharp.com <http://www.linkedin.com/in/bradysharp>
Hello,
I am happy to announce an update to Rabbitcontrol for Pd.
Most notably version 2.0 handles threading properly and solves a bug on
macos by switching to Boost.Beast.
Be aware: It uses the recently introduced function "pd_queue_mess" and
therefore needs Pd >= 0.56.0.
It now comes as statically linked individual externals instead of one
library.
OpenSSL got updated to 3.5.2 and it is using Boost in version 1.88.0.
Getter functions are now prefixed with "get" to allow parameters like
"max", "min", "order", etc.
Please see the changelog for more details:
https://github.com/rabbitControl/pure-rabbit
The formerly included websocket externals got moved into their own
project. I will announce it in an extra email.
It is up on deken for Linux, macos and Windows if you want to try it out.
(Search for: rabbitcontrol, rabbit or rcp)
If you wonder what RabbitControl is you can find some information here:
https://rabbitcontrol.cc/
Cheers,
Ingo
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Hello,
I am happy to announce two websocket externals: [wsserver] and [wsclient]
The externals support binary and text-data.
Both externals are statically linked using OpenSSL 3.5.2 and Boost.Beast
1.88.0
Be aware: It uses the recently introduced function "pd_queue_mess" and
therefore needs Pd >= 0.56.0.
Please find it on deken for Linux, macos and Windows or on github:
https://github.com/i-n-g-o/websockets-pd
Cheers,
Ingo
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Hi, after a test phase with Windows errors, it seems we solved the windows
compilation issues and here's the update I'm wrapping up for the PdMAXCon
in a few days! I just have to ship this, but I had a new [streamin~] and
[streamout~] objects for streaming and I'm leaving it out for now cause the
build for windows is still failing. Hold on for that. Note that older ELSE
versions are not working on Pd 0.56. This one requires 0.56-1!
My last update aimed at a PlugData update but that didn't happen yet,
though there's a PlugData 0.9-2 test release, based on 0.55-2. This new
ELSE update will hopefully come soon right after at PlugData 0.9.3, or
maybe even a newer update. I was hoping to better coordinate releases but
it's not happening :)
There's a lot of new stuff, but I'm mainly focusing on my MERDA modules,
which I'll show at PdMAXCon. They're coming out fancy with lots of stuff
and details I can't get into. There's lots of eye candy, like Implementing
a new mechanism for minimizing and maximizing the GUI or opening in a new
window. Added "tab" navigation for most knobs in the modules. This is just
the tip of the iceberg as there's lots of work to support this, so I made
several changes and updates to [knob] and [button]. The [knob] object also
gained several features and it became a feature-creep monster. Now I'm also
including mouse wheel scrolling, for one thing.
There's a new "Super Saw/Square" oscillator (a sum of 7 oscillators based
on JP-8000) abstraction object that also became a MERDA module. I wanna
highlight a new [mix~] object made for it that makes convenient mixing and
panning MC connections. There's also a cool [arpeggiator] abstraction, in
the next release I hope I'll have a new MERDA module with that included.
This is the main deal! There are 15 new objects, I'd like to also mention
mid/side encoding and stereo widening, and another one for envelope
following. Total number of objects now is 587! The tutorial now has 561
examples and an expanded subchapter about stereo imaging and improvements
to envelope following.
It's up in deken, let me know if something is wrong...
There are of course many many other numerous changes and fixes. Detailed
changelog in https://github.com/porres/pd-else/releases/tag/v.1.0-rc14
As of now, I started being more careful with breaking changes. I'm still
allowing old patches to run, but telling people to adapt to new stuff. For
instance, I had a [del~ in] and [del~ out] object now split into 2
([del.in~]/[del.out~])
thanks to a new functionality in Pd 0.56-0, but you can still call the old
[del~] object (for now). Like I've been saying, I'm just waiting for
PlugData 1.0 to call this a final release as well.
cheers
Alex
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hi all,
i've just setup a new (experimental) webservice, that shows some graph
about trends in the usage of Pd, based on deken queries.
as we all know, deken - Pd's built in package manager - can be used to
query <https://deken.puredata.info/> for available packages.
what some of you might now know is that deken sends the following
information along with the request:
- the Tcl/Tk version used (e.g. "8.6.10")
- the Pd version used (e.g. "0.55-2")
- the deken version used (e.g. "0.9.18")
- the deken architecture of Pd (e.g. "Windows-amd64-32")
all this information is send as the "user agent" string (just like, when
you access a webpage with your favourite browser, it will send its
version and whatnot, e.g. "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:128.0)
Gecko/20100101 Firefox/128.0").
sidenote: i think myself of rather privacy aware, and do not think that
collecting any of these data is problematic (nor is sending them from
within Pd).
also, because this is how the internet works, the web server knows about
your IP (and thus can make some educated guess about the country you
are currently accessing a webpage from), and whether you are using an
encrypted channel (https) or not (http); and of course the actual query.
i've finally decided to make this data public (and somewhat useful), by
extracting some time-series and creating nice graphs from them.
these are now available on <https://deken.puredata.info/trends>
the data should get updated automatically.
(since the data already covers about 7 years, it might look like it's
not being updated though; but this is about seeing long-term *trends*,
rather than short-term hypes, so I don't think it is a problem)
# data skew
the input data for the trend series is searches for externals via Pd's
built-in package manager.
this means, that specific use cases of Pd might not show up in the data
at all.
e.g. some Linux users might just prefer to install externals via their
package manager (and do all searches there), so they won't be
represented here at all.
Pd distributions that ship with a lot of externals, will not show up (as
the users will not have a need to search for externals).
esp. Pd-l2ork and Purr-Data do not show up, as they do not allow deken
search (and there's some binary incompatibility, so that's a good thing)
Plug Data does not show up either, even though you *can* use deken with
it, because Plug Data does not directly query our web server for caching
reasons.
early versions of deken would not send a specific user agent string (and
use just the default one of Tcl/Tk), that's why you sometimes see labels
like "Darwin?" or "i386?" - these values are just educated guesses,
based on the user agent string and the the time when the queries occurred)
# absolute vs relative data
the data presented is relative (in percent).
you can get graphs with absolute values by clicking on the images.
# oddities
the absolute data is very seasonal (whereas the relative representation
is more or less stable).
this *might* have to do with Pd being primarily used in educational
contexts (with holidays in between, where the Pd is little used).
but really, idk.
the other thing i found odd was that up to 2020 a considerable amount of
the webtraffic (between 50% and 70%!) was using https.
after that this dropped to between 5-10%.
after some investigation i found that this has mostly to do with us
upgrading the Tcl/Tk version included with Pd on macOS: up to Pd-0.51
(or so), the included Tcl/Tk was able to use system installed
tcl-libraries, and macOS comes with a library that allows us to do https.
newer versions of Tcl/Tk can no longer use this library, and since we do
not ship our own, this means that the traiffic is degraded to http :-(
cheers,
gasdmr
IOhannes
--
please do not CC me for list-emails
Hi, lots of people have been reporting issues with ELSE and Pd 0.56. I had
things sorted before this Pd release but I had to wait and wrap up an
update. Next week I'll be attending the PdMax conference and I now have a
test release ready! I plan to upload the actual final one by september 2nd!
This is just to see if people find issues with it...
By the way, Pd 0.56-1 is out with some important bugfixes, and this
actually needs it! It's already up in deken but you can also find a
download here. I'm owing a Raspberry pi release. I need help with that
actually...
Check the link for the details on what's new. I'll make another
announcement with the highlights when the final version is officially out.
https://github.com/porres/pd-else/releases/tag/v.1.0-rc14-test
Please download and open All_else_objects.pd - see if all the objects will
load just fine. Tell me if you see something funny. Thanks!
cheers
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Friends
I am using version 0.53.1 in this case (from Debian-12 archives) so apologies in advance if my problem is not apparent in more recent versions
I am using pd to implement guitar effects (https://github.com/worikgh/120Pedal.git)
To that end I want to start a pd process in the background and headless. I manage Jack audio pipes programmatically (it is how I switch between pedals in real time) and I do not connect directly to system:playback_1 as I have a volume control between my effects and playback
To this end I wish to start a pd process that creates jack I/O for itself but does not connect them to the system input and outputs
For example I run: `pd -path ./my_pd_library/ -nogui -jack -jackname pipename_mono -rt -send "; pd dsp 1" -channels 1 ./pd/myeffect~.pd`
This works very well, except for creating the connections "system:capture_1 -> pipename_mono:inut1" and "pipename_mono:output_1 -> system:playback_1"
I can use "jack_disconnect" after I start pd, but that is a bit tacky.
I studied the output of pd --help​ and I can see no suitable switch.
Can somebody please point me in the correct direction for solving this?
Worik
is it possible in a patch to get info about which Pd-version is running
the patch?
(i would like to conditionally use the [donecanvas( or the new [goprec(
message
so the patch can still run in older versions of PD).
rolf