Pd-list May 2018

pd-list@lists.iem.at

58 participants
66 discussions

Preferences=>audio: block size & sys_getblksize
by Alexandre Torres Porres 17 May '18

17 May '18

Hi, I never understood what the block size settings in audio settings (Preferences=>audio) does. Manual says "You can also specify the audio block size in sample frames. This is 64 by default (except for MMIO for which it's 256), and may be 64, 128, or 256." I don't know what MMIO is, but if I try different block sizes, I don't see any reflection in Pd's block size, which continues to be 64, and can only be controlled and set by block. Moreover, I'm using sys_getblksize() in a code, and I always get "64" as the result, even if I change the block size in audio Settings or with [block~]. So, what would sys_getblksize be then? cheers

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Fedora audio setup howto?
by Dan Wilcox 16 May '18

16 May '18

Does anyone have a basic how to on setting up audio for Pd on Fedora? I had a workshop last week with some people running newer versions of Fedora. There isn't currently a Prue Data package in yum, or least they didn't find one, but they were able to build Pd from source without issues. The problem is that Pd runs fine but cannot see any audio devices in the settings. I assume this is related to Pulseaudio and/or the Alsa devices not being configured and I remember earlier discussions on the list. It would be *great* to have this info on the puredata.info <http://puredata.info/> FAQ. -------- Dan Wilcox @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>

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Re: [PD] GEM & RPi
by Dan Wilcox 16 May '18

16 May '18

> I don't see how GEM could struggle with such a trivial task? I mean, taking a whole core to render some text? Sounds like there's something wrong... I've run several audio-visual installations (openFrameworks + Pd) on RPi3s in full HD which involved quite a bit more than drawing a number on a screen :-) OpenFrameworks is not comparable to GEM in this case, see my previous email. :) -------- Dan Wilcox @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>

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Re: [PD] GEM & RPi
by Dan Wilcox 16 May '18

16 May '18

> On May 16, 2018, at 1:34 PM, pd-list-request(a)lists.iem.at wrote: > > Date: Wed, 16 May 2018 13:30:35 +0200 > From: oliver <oliver(a)klingt.org <mailto:oliver@klingt.org>> > To: michael strohmann <itsnotfair9(a)gmail.com <mailto:itsnotfair9@gmail.com>> > Cc: pd-list(a)mail.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@mail.iem.at> > Subject: Re: [PD] GEM & RPi > Message-ID: <affda5cb3702ccef13c9e4a0a650ec60(a)mail.klingt.org <mailto:affda5cb3702ccef13c9e4a0a650ec60@mail.klingt.org>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > > i myself tried GEM some time ago on a PI but quickly gave up on > displaying images/movies. > i guess there was no GL support whatsoever. > but that was on a PI2 and i don't know about the openGL status on newer > raspbian versions. My 2 cents: A common misconception seems to be that RPI "doesn't support OpenGL". It does, including the original RPI. The issue is that they all use Open GL ES which is *not* the same as full blown OpenGL. ES is a subset of the spec for embedded systems and now mainly mobile devices. It simplifies and removes some extra functionality in order to run things better on lower specs machines, etc. The issue is more that software which is written for normal OpenGL doesn't generally work directly with OpenGL ES and some of the missing parts are done in software aka on the CPU the through X windows when running Linux. So in the case of GEM, you have to run X windows and some things run more slowly depending on what your doing as not everything is actually running on the GPU. And for movies, if you use the mechanism to decode compressed video on the GPU, an RPI 1 can play HD x264 movies *no problem* as well as with other light weight codecs. The problem comes when your software doesn't;t know how to do that and tries to do it all on the CPU. Now, GEM *could* be updated to support OpenGL ES directly and it could theoretically run on the commandline without needing X and run very much faster without some of the software emulation. It could also use the hardware movie decoding. However, we'd need someone to come along and do that work... OpenFrameworks has, on the other hand, a native OpenGL ES renderer and window handling on the commandline which is why I suggested it. As Ofelia is built using OpenFrameworks, that might be a good option as well. For the movie stuff, it would need to also include support for the RPI-only OMAP video player addon, I believe. An even cooler, old school solution to all of this could be to create a simple console app that loads the largest console font available in the system and simply clears the console buffer and writes the time each update ala ncsurses, etc. Now *that* would be fast :) -------- Dan Wilcox @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>

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Re: [PD] GEM & RPi
by Dan Wilcox 16 May '18

16 May '18

Yes, I'd definitely start there with a HUGE canvas font size. See how the performance is. However, I still standby not running X if you really want more performance on embedded. :) > On May 16, 2018, at 1:34 PM, pd-list-request(a)lists.iem.at wrote: > > From: Johnny Mauser <joson.android(a)googlemail.com <mailto:joson.android@googlemail.com>> > Cc: michael strohmann <itsnotfair9(a)gmail.com <mailto:itsnotfair9@gmail.com>>, Pd-List > <pd-list(a)lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>> > Subject: Re: [PD] GEM & RPi > Message-ID: > <CAMJUsDaTSO92dW4XzkWDpD0_m1oLWvXwXPPNYud=NpwMr6iryw(a)mail.gmail.com <mailto:CAMJUsDaTSO92dW4XzkWDpD0_m1oLWvXwXPPNYud=NpwMr6iryw@mail.gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Or you just use a big [canvas] and send the time as label. -------- Dan Wilcox @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>

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Re: [PD] GEM & RPi
by Dan Wilcox 16 May '18

16 May '18

Short answer: simple pygame script with an OSC receiver. I think GEM is overkill for just a text countdown timer. Another option is to make an OpenFrameworks app which you can run on the commandline without X windows and save lots of RAM and CPU. :) This may or may not require too much extra time, to set up though, but thats' who I'd do it. > On May 16, 2018, at 1:21 PM, pd-list-request(a)lists.iem.at wrote: > > Date: Wed, 16 May 2018 12:41:05 +0200 > From: michael strohmann <itsnotfair9(a)gmail.com <mailto:itsnotfair9@gmail.com>> > To: pd-list(a)lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at> > Subject: [PD] GEM & RPi > Message-ID: <064187E4-C8AA-41DD-99B7-E9F70629E871(a)gmail.com <mailto:064187E4-C8AA-41DD-99B7-E9F70629E871@gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi! > > the short question: > what would be the least resource intense method to display a 10min Countdown? > (need to listen to a trigger on netreceive) -------- Dan Wilcox @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>

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Re: [PD] Tcl 8.4 /8.5 on mac-ppc
by Dan Wilcox 16 May '18

16 May '18

> the Pd-tree of the 'regular' mac version differs from the ppc one. > it has a "frameworks" folder (with Tcl in it) that's not in the ppc one. > > furthermore, it's unclear for me what exactly is part of the embedded > Wish implementation. > i tried replacing the whole tcl folder, to no avail. Did you read the mac/README.txt? There really are "manuals" for most of this... That explains the layout of the Pd.app and the Tcl/Tk requirements. The main issue of things is that for the longest time, macOS only came with Tcl/Tk 8.4 preinstalled. Later it came with a buggy version of 8.5 which we avoid by embedding a newer, better 8.5 version within the app bundle. This version is for newer intel macs and the ppc compatible build uses the older 8.4 provided by the system. If you want, you can probably use the mac/tcltk-wish.sh script and set the --arch ppc flag to try and build for ppc specifically, but you will need to 1. have the 10.5 to 10.6 SDK available and 2. choose a version of Tcl/TK that will work on it. I mention #2 as I don't know if Tcl has dropped ppc support yet, perhaps not. A further option might be to find an old pre-compiled ActiveTCL download of 8.5 for ppc somewhere, install it on the machine, and update the Pd.app bundle with the wish for there, either using the mac/osx-app script or manually. i n any case, check out the readme and you can use the scripts to automate building Tcl/Tk and the app bundle. It's all there, just not tested on such an old system. -------- Dan Wilcox @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>

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GEM & RPi
by michael strohmann 16 May '18

16 May '18

Hi! the short question: what would be the least resource intense method to display a 10min Countdown? (need to listen to a trigger on netreceive) the long version : I am running pd and GEM on a RPi 3B+ i display a countdown with GEM and some “text2d” objects on 1920x1080 The RPi CPU meter says that it uses 24%, the RPi temperature is at around 65 degree. as the thing should run 24/7 in an exhibition i am a bit concerned regarding the temperature. i was trying to bring down the cpu load, yet without success. 1.) i was using pix_image to display a new jpeg every second …. this used >90% cpu. obviously it is difficult for pd or the rpi do disply jpegs ? 2.) so back to openGL: i don/t understand why the cpu load doubles if the gemwin window is in foreground? (as opposed to when the patcher window is in foreground…) cheers & Thanks!!! Michael

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Re: [PD] Tcl 8.4 /8.5 on mac-ppc
by rolfm＠dds.nl 16 May '18

16 May '18

> From: sebfumaster(a)aol.com > To: rolfm(a)dds.nl, pd-list(a)lists.iem.at > Subject: Re: [PD] Tcl 8.4 /8.5 on mac-ppc > Message-ID: <16361798739-179d-410e(a)webjas-vad222.srv.aolmail.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > I don't know the specifics but you could use the ox-app.sh script in > the mac directory of the the source tree after building pd. > e.g. osx-app.sh --tk 8.5.19 as the help option -h shows. (so just cd > to the /mac directory and run the script) great hint. very clear explanation what should be possible. however, it didn't work because of problems with SSL certificates, for which i don't have a solution. (the output is at the end of this mail) @IOhannes >> -should it then be necessary/possible to compile Pd with this Tcl 8.5 > > the good thing is, you don't need to compile Pd with Tcl/Tk *at all*. > Wish (the Tcl/Tk interpreter), is a standalone program that is started > by Pd and interprets Pd's tcl/tk commands. > you should be able to replace the embedded Wish implementation by a > newer version. i had a look at that. the Pd-tree of the 'regular' mac version differs from the ppc one. it has a "frameworks" folder (with Tcl in it) that's not in the ppc one. furthermore, it's unclear for me what exactly is part of the embedded Wish implementation. i tried replacing the whole tcl folder, to no avail. > btw, you could also consider installing Debian on your ppc to get newer > software. nice try. my cooperation is with other people with old and new macs, for whom Linux is out of the question. > i don't remember the details, but maybe kiosk-plugin doesn't *really* > require tcl/tk 8.5 (and just assumes it does). > you could try removing the version from kiosk-plugin.tcl:9 (so it only > reads `package require Tcl`), and see whether it bites back. i did that already. it bites back. rolf OUTPUT maccie:mac rolfmeesters$ ./osx-app.sh --tk 8.5.19 0.48-1 Using custom 8.5.19 Wish.app ==== Creating Tcl/Tk Wish-8.5.19.app % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed 100 345 100 345 0 0 21 0 0:00:16 0:00:15 0:00:01 0 curl: (60) SSL certificate problem, verify that the CA cert is OK. Details: error:14090086:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_SERVER_CERTIFICATE:certificate verify failed More details here: http://curl.haxx.se/docs/sslcerts.html curl performs SSL certificate verification by default, using a "bundle" of Certificate Authority (CA) public keys (CA certs). The default bundle is named curl-ca-bundle.crt; you can specify an alternate file using the --cacert option. If this HTTPS server uses a certificate signed by a CA represented in the bundle, the certificate verification probably failed due to a problem with the certificate (it might be expired, or the name might not match the domain name in the URL). If you'd like to turn off curl's verification of the certificate, use the -k (or --insecure) option. (i tried the suggestion of 'curl -insecure' but i needs an URL which i don't know)

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Tcl 8.4 /8.5 on mac-ppc
by rolfm＠dds.nl 15 May '18

15 May '18

i would like to use kiosk-plugin with Pd-0.48 on a mac-ppc (OSX 10.5.8). however, kiosk-plugin needs tcl 8.5 and the Pd-0.48-1.ppc uses Tcl 8.4. i was looking for info about tcl 8.5 and a mac-ppc, but it appeared to me like i had to enter a whole new jungle of terms, versions, websites, libraries etc. hopefully someone here is willing to give me a hint: -how to get Tcl 8.5 for a mac-ppc -should it then be necessary/possible to compile Pd with this Tcl 8.5 (other then the kiosk-plugin, everything works with my patches on mac-ppc as well as Windows 10). thanks in advance, rolf

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Pd-list May 2018