Pd-list February 2016

pd-list@lists.iem.at

91 participants
131 discussions

Introducing GemmaLib
by Zack Lee 24 Feb '16

24 Feb '16

Hi guys, I'm Zack and I would like to share the release of GemmaLib with you. I've been working on GemmaLib for quite a while now and I'm happy to finally share it with you. GemmaLib is a set of Pd abstractions that allows you to easily create high-quality musical apps that run on mobile devices through the Gemma app (currently available on iOS). Feel free to check out this YouTube video to learn more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvPFKOkDOfo You can get GemmaLib via http://www.iceblinkdigital.com/developers/ or via https://github.com/iceblinkdigital/GemmaLib-1.0.1 I'm looking forward to hearing your feedback! Zack

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Re: [PD] Introducing GemmaLib
by Dan Wilcox 24 Feb '16

24 Feb '16

Congrats. Looks like a lot of work came together for this. -------- Dan Wilcox @danomatika <https://twitter.com/danomatika> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/> > On Feb 23, 2016, at 9:14 AM, pd-list-request(a)lists.iem.at wrote: > > From: Zack Lee <cuinjune(a)gmail.com <mailto:cuinjune@gmail.com>> > Subject: [PD] Introducing GemmaLib > Date: February 23, 2016 at 9:13:37 AM MST > To: pd-list(a)lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>, pd-dev(a)lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-dev@lists.iem.at>, pd-announce(a)lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-announce@lists.iem.at> > > > Hi guys, > > I'm Zack and I would like to share the release of GemmaLib with you. > > I've been working on GemmaLib for quite a while now and I'm happy to finally share it with you. > > GemmaLib is a set of Pd abstractions that allows you to easily create high-quality musical apps that run on mobile devices through the Gemma app (currently available on iOS). Feel free to check out this YouTube video to learn more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvPFKOkDOfo <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvPFKOkDOfo> > > You can get GemmaLib via http://www.iceblinkdigital.com/developers/ <http://www.iceblinkdigital.com/developers/> or via https://github.com/iceblinkdigital/GemmaLib-1.0.1 <https://github.com/iceblinkdigital/GemmaLib-1.0.1> > I'm looking forward to hearing your feedback! > > Zack >

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Messed font files
by Alexandros Drymonitis 24 Feb '16

24 Feb '16

This problem doesn't concern Pd only, but it started through Pd (well, I started it) and it is related to Pd, so I'm posting it here. I've recently dual booted my laptop with Debian Jessie XFCE and in general all is working fine. While doing some stuff in Pd (that's 0.46.2 from the Jessie repositories) I created a [text2d] and got this error message: [text2d]: cannot find font-file '/usr/share/fonts/truetype/ttf-dejavu/DejaVuSans.ttf' So I looked in /usr/share/fonts/truetype and saw there was a dejavu/ directory, which had some font files in it, including DejavuSans.ttf. Now, not being very linux-savvy, I changed the name of the directory to ttf-dejavu/. [text2d] worked fine, but ever since, when I open Pd, I get this message: WARNING: Font family 'DejaVu Sans Mono' not found, using default (Courier 10 Pitch) I tried to rename the directory back to dejavu/, but now the corresponding font file is a "broken symbolic link to ../dejavu/DejaVuSansMono.ttf" Renaming the directory back to ttf-dejavu/ doesn't work for [text2d] either. It's a bit annoying because Pd's font is now quite small, and even if I include the -font-size-12 flag in the Startup flags, if I open an existing patch, the font goes back to 10, and the letters are quite small. I now realize that this wasn't a very smart thing to do, but I did it... All this might make sense to people who know the Linux system well, but that's not the case with me and I'm experimenting. So, anyone knows a solution to this? It would be nice if I could solve both problems, Pd not finding DejavuSansMono.ttf and [text2d] not finding DejavuSans.ttf Thanks

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Re: [PD] How's Pd limited?
by Eugene Lazarchik 24 Feb '16

24 Feb '16

Where do I start? * Dynamic patching is officially not supported and bug/feature requests get ignored. I had to jump through a lot of hoops to use dynamic patching with GOP but I discovered a bunch of weird issues with subpatches not getting redrawn and connectors left hanging after object deletion. Had to build ugly hacks/workarounds since nobody's gonna fix the issues in PD. Sending loadbangs to dynamically created objects is a pain, as well as trying to dynamically connect them to something (most examples of using the "connect" message use hardcoded object ID's). * Support for lists is quite limited. Wanna create a multidimentional array? Build your own. Want a hash map? Build your own. Luckily there's list-abs but it's weird that such basic functionality (that's present in most programming languages) is not a core language feature. * Sends and receives are global which creates a potential for conflicts. $0 can be used to avoid that but it looks ugly and many libraries, patches, and I think even help files, don't use it. * Help files are *.pd which sounds neat at first, until you realize that they're not easily searchable and can't be viewed online. * Bugs and weird behavior when handling special characters. There's no consistent way of escaping them. Sometimes characters disappear when saving and loading a patch. * Limited support for comments. Special characters are not allowed (really? these are comments!). Automatic line wrapping doesn't work well since after saving/loading a patch often changes how text is broken into lines. So I have to put each line as a separate comment. * Dependence on font sizes. By default object boxes scale automatically depending on the text inside. When you add more text, all inlets/outlets move. I installed a different version of PD and font size is slightly different and all objects are of a different size now.* Want to add an outlet to the beginning of a trigger object? Enjoy disconnecting and connecting all other outlets since there's no way of automatically move them. * Want to print all messages flowing through a connection for debugging purposes? Remove the connection, then create a [t a a] object, then create a [print] object, then connect [print] to the second outlet, then connect [t a a] to the previous and next object (If you don't use the [trigger], messages will only be printed after they flow through the whole system). After you're done, delete the objects and re-create the connection. Not very convenient for quick debugging. * Vanilla provides only minimal functionality while most of the convenient objects are supposed to come from external libraries. There's multiple issues with that. First one is that libraries are less standardized and consistent. They have different approaches, sometimes duplicate each other, use different conventions for naming, inlets/outlets, etc. Second issue is that libraries often become dead/unmaintained. * Big patches/abstractions become unreadable really fast. Connectors are always straight lines and there's no support for dummy intermediate "points" for connecting stuff. I use [t a] and [+~] for these purposes but it'd be nice to have native support for this. * Standard GUI objects are ugly and have limited functionality. * There's no good support for the concept of functions/procedures. Let's say we need to take some input, do some transformations and produce output, and we need to do that in multiple places in our patch. We can copy the objects but that will make the patch use more memory and there will be no code reuse. Another way is to make that an abstraction, but it's silly to make abstractions for every little thing that we need in 2 places. Also, instantiating 2 abstractions still uses more memory. We can try reusing the same code but we'll have to make multiple output connections so we'll need proper routing in order to figure out where to send the result. I made an abstraction to simplify that but this should be a standard feature of PD. * *.pd format is not very friendly to Git. Try viewing diffs and resolving merge conflicts. Moving a subpatch on the screen causes different coordinates to be saved in the file, often resulting in conflicts. Cutting and pasting renumbers all objects and connections. This makes using branches and working on the same files impractical. * PD seems to be maintained by only a handful of people and new features/bug fixes are rarely released. I used to code in C and was thinking of contributing but I found no good guide for new contributors. I wasn't even able to compile PD on my Mac (there's multiple build scripts in the sources but none of them work). I'm also not sure what the testing process should be (to make sure I'm not breaking any existing functionality or support for operating systems or devices). * PD community uses mailing lists for communications, haha. In order to find useful information I have to view one message per page, with tons of distracting quotes from previous messages. These are just the first things that came to my mind... On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 6:30 PM, Niklas Reppel <nik(a)parkellipsen.de> wrote: > Hmm, i always thought that the dynamic creation and destruction of sound > sources (oscillators etc.) pretty inconvenient in PD, > compared to a source-code based approach. > > Maybe i missed some developments here, but the last time i checked (a year > ago maybe), this was clearly quite > a hassle, even though i know it's possible. > > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 03:49:43AM +0200, Matti Viljamaa wrote: > > Perhaps a bit of broad question, but I find it interesting in order to > speculate about future additions. > > > > How do you think Pure Data is limited? > > _______________________________________________ > > Pd-list(a)lists.iem.at mailing list > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > _______________________________________________ > Pd-list(a)lists.iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >

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Re: [PD] Cyclone future
by Dan Wilcox 24 Feb '16

24 Feb '16

If neither krzysztof not Fred plan to continue development, why can’t it continue under the same name? (Keeping attribution of course!) I’d argue multiple libraries is more confusing to the user especially when they all provide roughly the same functionality but the main one is now very out of date. That, plus the fact that urging people to use [declare -lib cyclone] now requires urging people to do a batch find/replace for “cyclone” when, again, the functionality is the same. -------- Dan Wilcox @danomatika <https://twitter.com/danomatika> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/> > On Feb 23, 2016, at 1:32 PM, pd-list-request(a)lists.iem.at wrote: > > i therefore ask both fred and alexandre to change the name of their > library, so that they cannot be confused with both the original cyclone > library and with each other: neither of the forks is an (or /the/) > "official" fork. > for what it is worth, git makes it easy to incorporate changes between > forks (using pull requests, cherry picking,...) even if the names are > different!

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Cyclone future
by Fred Jan Kraan 23 Feb '16

23 Feb '16

Hi Everyone, This mail is the last I will write about cyclone in the foreseeable future. There are serious plans to save Pure Data and cyclone by adding numerous objects. As I don't seem to be able to communicate my vision on cyclone maintenance and because my time and energy is limited, I decided to stop working on it. I don't want to, but there is no benefit for the community in having two diverging versions of cyclone. There are other useful ex-pd-extended libraries that can use some maintenance. If you have favorite candidates, let me know. Greetings, Fred Jan

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Re: [PD] How's Pd limited?
by Dan Wilcox 23 Feb '16

23 Feb '16

> Em ter, 23 de fev de 2016 às 00:56, Matt Barber <brbrofsvl(a)gmail.com <mailto:brbrofsvl@gmail.com>> escreveu: > Newest vanilla has basic object resize, which actually helps a lot with some of the issues brought up here. It's also very helpful that comments can be resized, so you can set the wrap point. > > Cool.. I'm using pd 0.46-7, what's that object? :) Hover your mouse over the right side of an object box and drag… -------- Dan Wilcox @danomatika <https://twitter.com/danomatika> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>

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Re: [PD] How's Pd limited?
by Dan Wilcox 23 Feb '16

23 Feb '16

> On Feb 23, 2016, at 11:19 AM, pd-list-request(a)lists.iem.at wrote: > > It's an incremental approach, so it still suffers from socket chatter problems that tcl/tk Pd has. But now that tcl/tk is removed from the C code, > logic is slowly making its way over to the GUI side. I’m hoping to build upon this work by looking into integrating this approach into libpd. Keep it up :) -------- Dan Wilcox @danomatika <https://twitter.com/danomatika> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>

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Compiling Externals using MinGW / MSYS on Windows
by Ricky Graham 23 Feb '16

23 Feb '16

Hi folks, I’m attempting to compile on a Windows 7 machine running the most recent version of MinGW. I’m using Katja's pd-lib-builder (https://github.com/pure-data/pd-lib-builder <https://github.com/pure-data/pd-lib-builder>). My MinGW installer states that I have Make v. 3.81 installed (required to compile using Katja’s project). However, when I check Make version on MSYS shell, it states that the version is 3.7, thus not allowing me to compile. I cannot find any documentation anywhere on how to upgrade Make. I suspect something isn’t pointing where it should. Does anyone have any ideas why MSYS shell would report an older version of Make despite what my MinGW installer is telling me? All the best, Ricky

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Pd Extended OSX App Bundle Makefile
by Jonathan Wilkes 23 Feb '16

23 Feb '16

Hi List,Can anybody point me to documentation that explains how to build Gem for the Pd-extended OSX app bundle? I see pd/packages/darwin_app/Makefile with `make install` and `make package`. These don't actually build Gem when I run them, but Gem is included in the Pd-extended app bundle so there must a step I'm missing somewhere. Thanks,Jonathan

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Pd-list February 2016