Pd-list September 2015

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62 participants
88 discussions

Understanding the mechanics of rebuilding Pd's DSP graph
by Roman Haefeli 24 Nov '15

24 Nov '15

Hi all First, I'm not even sure if 'DSP graph' is the correct term. Pd's documentation[1] states that all DSP objects are internally arranged into a linear order which I believe is often called 'DSP graph'. There are apparently some actions that cause this DSP graph to be rebuilt. Rebuilding takes time and is often the cause of audio drop-outs. I would like to have a better understanding of the mechanics going on behind the scenes with the hope to be able to optimize my Pd programming. One thing I'd like to know: Is there one graph for all patches in a certain instance of Pd? It seems that adding a tilde-object to a patch causes the DSP graph to be recalculated. Now, if _everything_ is in the same graph, this would mean the whole graph needs to be recalculated when adding objects (or abstractions containing tilde-objects, for that matter), no matter where I put them. It would make no difference whether I have one big patch with 1000 tilde-objects loaded or 100 smaller patches with 10 tilde-objects each, when adding new objects, would it? Is the time it takes to recalculate the graph only dependent on the number of tilde-objects running in the current instance of Pd? If so, is that a linear correlation? 10 times more tilde-objects means it takes 10 times as long to recalculate the graph? Or is it even exponential? There is no way to partition the graph and update only one partition, is there? On a related note, I made the following observation and I'm wondering if/how that is related to the DSP graph: I create a minimalist patch with a small [table foo 100] and I measure the time it takes to 'resize' it to 99 with [realtime]. On my box, this takes 0.01 ms. I expected it to be fast, since memory access is very quick. Now, I additionally load a much more complex patch with many tilde-objects. I 'resize' the table again and it still takes only 0.01ms. Now I put a [tabread~ foo] somewhere in the patch. Now,'resize'-ing the table foo to 100 takes 20ms. Even if I remove the [tabread~ foo] again, resizing the table still takes at least 20ms. There is no way to make it fast again except restarting Pd. I also figured out that when only a non-tilde [tabread foo] is refencing the table I'm resizing, the resizing keeps being fast. Only when tilde-objects are referencing the table, resizing that very table becomes slow. The actual time seems dependent on the complexity of the loaded patch(es). And it also corresponds with the time it takes to send 'dsp 1' to pd (when dsp is switched off). Why is resizing tables so much slower, when tilde-objects are referencing it? I noticed that even resizing very small tables can be a cause for audio drop-outs. I wonder whether 'live-resizing' should be avoided altogether. Yeah, that's a bunch of questions... Even when knowing the answer to only some them, it might clear things up quite a bit. Roman [1] "Pd sorts all the tilde objects into a linear order for running." ( http://msp.ucsd.edu/Pd_documentation/x2.htm#s4.2 )

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How does vline~ work under the hood?
by i go bananas 18 Oct '15

18 Oct '15

I want to recreate the timing accuracy of vline~ in a c++ project, and there's something that i can't figure out exactly - how does it act, seemingly outside of the block construct, to get its accuracy? in the source code, there is a calculation for elapsed logical time, and i assume that has something to do with it? if i make a vline~ from 0 to 1, over 10ms, does this mean that it actually doesn't START right on 0, but rather starts at a slightly offset value to compensate for the block boundary? any help would be appreciated!

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Re: [PD] comport rxerrors
by rolfm＠dds.nl 06 Oct '15

06 Oct '15

dear list, i'm repeating my question because i'm totally stuck. [comport] reports RXerrors when trying to connect to an Arduino over an USB com port. the Arduino IDE works without fail. it's on a new Lenovo with Windows 10. i cannot fall back on my old W7 computer because it crashed. needless to say that everything worked on W7, XP, MAC. anybody who has experience with this? any hint is very much appreciated. rolf

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Font size on Windows and Linux
by Roman Haefeli 04 Oct '15

04 Oct '15

Hi all It's old news, but deken makes Pd-vanilla _the_ target platform and I do care about portability: Font sizes in canvasses are different between Linux and Windows. Some patches created on Linux break on Windows because symbol boxes are overlapping the GOP area and are not visible anymore. From the list of available sizes in the 'Edit'->'Font' menu, only a few sizes are actually affected. The sizes 8, 10 and 12 are one pixel per character wider on Windows than on Linux. The sizes 16, 24 and 36 are OK. Now the question is what is the correct way to fix that, I mean on what platform should it be changed? I'd say it should be changed on Windows, because I can't imagine that shrinking boxes would break any patches, while widening boxes might do. Pd-extended already dealt with the issue and apparently found a fix. What would speak against incorporating that fix into Pd? Roman

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how to expand time limit for video delay?
by Arturo Moya Villén 02 Oct '15

02 Oct '15

Hi, list members, I've been using Pd for several years, and till now I've been able to solve my problems by myself or consulting this list, so thanks very much everyone for your help in these years. But now I've got a problem that I can´t solve, so I´ll appreciate so much your help. I'm working with pix_delay, an object that allows me to move the real time image (with pix_video) between present and past changing dinamically the delay's lenght. I have made several installations with this concept and all them worked well, but I've always desired to expand the delay's lenght (1800 frames at this moment). In my imagination I can see a one year's delay. Even if I understand this is imposible rigth now, I would like to find a way to, at least, expand this limit, but when I increase the number in pix_delay and I create the gem window Pd crashes. I assumed this happened for a hardware limit, cause I was working with a not very powerful minimac (2.7 GHz Intel Core i7, 16 GB RAM, and a AMD Radeon HD 6630M 256 MB Graphic Card). But some days ago I bought a brand new Imac (Retina 5K, 27-imch, Mid 2015 with a 3,3 GHz Intel Core i5 processor, 32 GB RAM and a AMD Radeon R9 M290 2048 MB Graphic Card) and I get an almost identical problem,(I arrived to 1850 lenght) so I feel a bit desperate and without a direction to explore. Does anybody knows the reason for this limit, and if it´s possible to expand? It´s an issue related in somehow to the Pd architecture? I´ll appreciate so much your help. I prefer to work with 0.42.5 Pd extended version, but I've tried with the 0-43.4 version suffering the same problem. I send you in an attachment the smallest version of the patch, with the resolution I work with (if I increase the resolution the lenght must be smaller and viceversa). When you load the patch you have to wait a bit more than a minute, so the lenght's delay can be loaded. You can change the number in the right inlet and see the changes. Thanks a lot in advance! Arturo Moya -- Teléfono: 655333548 Skype: arturomoyavillen www.arturomoyavillen.com <http://es-mg42.mail.yahoo.com/neo/www.arturomoyavillen.com> EX, arte electronico y experimental <http://arteelectronico.net/> www.electrovisiones.com <http://es-mg42.mail.yahoo.com/neo/www.electrovisiones.com> www.silbeuysplight.com <http://es-mg42.mail.yahoo.com/neo/www.silbeuysplight.com>

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Re: [PD] how to expand time limit for video delay? -> ramfs
by jamal crawford 02 Oct '15

02 Oct '15

hi list > ssd buffer? if i remember correctly you can capture a video stream to a file and read it simultaneously and asynchronously (neologism?) using linux perhaps have a look for examples of that, or......use tapes :-) if you have some spare RAM, use ramfs, even faster then ssd cheers

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[PD-announce] 2nd Annual Web Audio Conference - submission deadline extended to October 15
by Jason Freeman 29 Sep '15

29 Sep '15

The 2nd Web Audio Conference (WAC) will be held April 4-6, 2016 at Georgia Tech in Atlanta. The keynote speakers <http://webaudio.gatech.edu/node/25> for WAC 2016 are Helen Thorington and Frank Melchior. Submissions for papers, talks, posters, demos, performances, and artworks are due October 15, 2015 at 11:59 PM Pacific Time. To submit your work, visit http://webaudio.gatech.edu/node/22 <http://webaudio.gatech.edu/node/22>. WAC is an international conference dedicated to web audio technologies and applications. The conference welcomes web developers, music technologists, computer musicians, application designers, researchers, and people involved in web standards. The conference addresses research, development, design, and standards concerned with emerging audio-related web technologies such as Web Audio API, Web RTC, WebSockets and Javascript. It is open to industry engineers, R&D scientists, academic researchers, artists, and students. The first Web Audio Conference <http://wac.ircam.fr/> was held in January 2015 at IRCAM <http://ircam.fr/> and Mozilla <http://www.mozilla.org/> in Paris, France. The Internet has become much more than a simple storage and delivery network for audio files, as modern web browsers on desktop and mobile devices bring new user experiences and interaction opportunities. New and emerging web technologies and standards now allow applications to create and manipulate sound in real-time at near-native speeds, enabling the creation of a new generation of web-based applications that mimic the capabilities of desktop software while leveraging unique opportunities afforded by the web in areas such as social collaboration, user experience, cloud computing, and portability. The Web Audio Conference focuses on innovative work by artists, researchers, and engineers in industry and academia, highlighting new standards, tools, APIs, and practices as well as innovative web audio applications for musical performance, education, research, collaboration, and production. Contributions to the second edition of the Web Audio Conference are encouraged in the following areas: Web Audio API, Web MIDI, Web RTC, and other existing or emerging web standards for audio and music Development tools, practices, and strategies of web audio applications Innovative audio and music based web applications Client-side audio processing (real-time or non real-time) Audio data and metadata formats and network delivery Server-side audio processing and client access Client-side audio engine and audio rendering Frameworks for audio synthesis, processing, and transformation Web-based audio visualization and/or sonification Multimedia integration Web-based live coding environments for music Web standards and use of standards within audio based web projects Hardware and tangible interfaces in web applications Codecs and standards for remote audio transmission Any other innovative work related to web audio that does not fall into the above categories We welcome submissions in the following tracks: paper, poster, demo, performance, and artwork. All submissions will be single-blind peer reviewed. The conference proceedings, which will include both papers (for papers and posters) and abstracts (for demos, performances, and artworks), will be published online in SmartTech, Georgia Tech’s archival open-access repository. Papers: Submit a 4-6 page paper to be given as an oral presentation. Talks: Submit an abstract to be given as an oral presentation. Posters: Submit a 2-4 page paper to be presented at a poster session. Demos: Submit an abstract to be presented at a hands-on demo session. Demo submissions should include a title, a one-paragraph abstract and a complete list of technical requirements (including anything expected to be provided by the conference organizers). Performances: Submit a performance making creative use of web-based audio applications. Performances can include elements such as audience device participation, web-based interfaces, WebMIDI, WebSockets, and/or other imaginative approaches to web technology. Submissions must include a title, a one-paragraph abstract of the performance, a link to video documentation of the work, a complete list of technical requirements (including anything expected to be provided by conference organizers), and names and one-paragraph biographies of all musicians involved in the performance. Artworks: Submit a sonic web artwork or interactive application which makes significant use of web audio standards such as Web Audio API or WebMIDI in conjunction with other technologies such as HTML5 graphics, WebGL, and/or interactivity. Works must be suitable for presentation on a computer kiosk with headphones. They will be featured at the conference venue throughout the conference and on the conference web site. Submissions must include a title, one-paragraph abstract of the work, a link to access the work, and names and one-paragraph biographies of the author(s). Tutorials: If you are interested in running a tutorial session at the conference, please contact the organizers directly (webaudio at gatech dot edu). Important Dates October 15, 2015 at 11:59 PM Pacific Time: submission deadline December 1, 2015: author notification March 1, 2016: camera-ready papers and abstracts due April 4-6, 2016: conference At least one author of each accepted submission must register for and attend the conference in order to present their work. Submission Templates and Submission System Submission templates are available on the conference web site at http://webaudio.gatech.edu/node/22 <http://webaudio.gatech.edu/node/22> The submission system is open at https://cmt.research.microsoft.com/WAC2016/ <https://cmt.research.microsoft.com/WAC2016/> _______________________________________________ Pd-announce mailing list Pd-announce(a)lists.iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce

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libpd + CocoaPods
by Dan Wilcox 29 Sep '15

29 Sep '15

Howdy all, For those of you using libpd, we seem to finally have a working CocoaPods podspec. Please test it out. https://github.com/libpd/libpd#cocoapods <https://github.com/libpd/libpd#cocoapods> -------- Dan Wilcox @danomatika <https://twitter.com/danomatika> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>

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Denver-area people?
by Dan Wilcox 29 Sep '15

29 Sep '15

Howdy all, Are there any Pd practitioners in the Denver area? I’m here for a year on a visiting prof gig and the wife and I are looking to start/join an experimental art/music soiree kind of deal … that or a plain jain patching circle. -------- Dan Wilcox @danomatika <https://twitter.com/danomatika> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>

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Re: [PD] Pd-list Digest, Vol 126, Issue 118
by John Benson 27 Sep '15

27 Sep '15

crazy day at the caffee again \ On Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 5:23 PM, <pd-list-request(a)lists.iem.at> wrote: > Send Pd-list mailing list submissions to > pd-list(a)lists.iem.at > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pd-list-request(a)lists.iem.at > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pd-list-owner(a)lists.iem.at > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Pd-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: How does vline~ work under the hood? (Jonathan Wilkes) > 2. Re: How does vline~ work under the hood? (Matt Barber) > 3. Re: How does vline~ work under the hood? (Jonathan Wilkes) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 22:08:16 +0000 (UTC) > From: Jonathan Wilkes <jancsika(a)yahoo.com> > To: Frank Barknecht <fbar(a)footils.org>, "pd-list(a)lists.iem.at" > <pd-list(a)lists.iem.at> > Subject: Re: [PD] How does vline~ work under the hood? > Message-ID: > <655463103.1338937.1443305296609.JavaMail.yahoo(a)mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi Frank,The [1, 0 50( message will almost always trigger differentoutput > when fed to [line~] and [vline~]. The only exceptionis when the ramp ends > exactly on a block boundary--otherwise [line~] will stretch the final part > of the ramp tothe block boundary. > > In fact, I'm willing to bet that if visualized this [line~]quantization to > new users at the outset they'd almostalways use [vline~]. After all, who > wants imperfect lines? :) > -Jonathan > > > > > > On Saturday, September 26, 2015 12:57 PM, Frank Barknecht < > fbar(a)footils.org> wrote: > > > Hi, > > On Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 11:24:40PM +0900, i go bananas wrote: > > In that case, maybe an even simpler question: > > > > What is the difference between sending a [1, 0 50( message to vline as > > opposed to line ? > > There will only be a difference in how line~ and vline~ react to this > message > when the message was triggered by something with a "clock" inside. These > kinds > of messages are called clock-delayed messages. > > Clock-delayed messages originate in objects like [metro] or [delay] or > [qlist]. > Messages that originate for example in mouse clicks are not clock-delayed > (i.e. > if you click a [bng] or move a slider). > > vline~ evaluates clock delayed message with high, sub-sample timing > accuracy. > line~ quantizes even clock delayed messages to block-boundaries or to 64 > samples, I'm not sure ATM which it is. But line~ quantizes. > > So depending on when the message was issued any by what, the ramp > generators > may act the same or different. > > Try delaying the message: > > [bang( > | > [delay 0.3] > | > [1. 0 50( > | > [line~ or vline~] > | > [print~] > > Ciao > -- > Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__ > > _______________________________________________ > Pd-list(a)lists.iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > >

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Pd-list September 2015