Pd-list June 2010

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144 participants
304 discussions

Re: [PD] MIDI In-to-Out Latency
by Ingo Scherzinger 06 Jun '10

06 Jun '10

I've used the M-Audio 2496 (PCI) as well as RME HDSP. At the moment I'm using the onboard soundcard of the mainboard which is a Realtek ALC889 (8ch with SPDif out). No problem with either one. I don't like USB soundcards because latency is quite bad and they have a lot of overhead plus a tendency to drop outs. I have no experience with firewire cards on Linux but on windows the drivers are not nearly close to the PCI RME drivers. I also have a focusrite "saffire pro" which is a toy compared to the HDSP. The RME drivers are way (!) behind on Linux compared to the Windows drivers. In general it seems like Linux has a better audio system but Windows has better soundcard drivers. So you'll end up with a similar result once everything is optimized. On Linux ALSA drivers don't work for me at all. OSS is my personal choice. ALSA only works with the -nosleep flag on here. And that option is still not as good as OSS for my systems. So there are many things that add up to span from unusable to absolutely great. Low latency needs a certain combination of the right hardware components. Depending on your mainboard chipset things can change dramatically. I prefere Nvidia and AMD chipsets. And I stay away from VIA (maybe this has changed by now?). About hyperthreading: yes it can be disabled - and you still get 50% of the CPU. Doesn't help anything. If you use Pd you should go for AMD on Windows and Linux. On Mac you don't have that choice, of course. I'm wondering what the developers would say about that topic? Ingo ________________________________________ Von: anewkindofblue(a)gmail.com [mailto:anewkindofblue@gmail.com] Im Auftrag von Pedro Lopes Gesendet: Sonntag, 6. Juni 2010 19:22 An: Ingo Scherzinger Betreff: Re: [PD] MIDI In-to-Out Latency By the way Ingo Scherzinger, probably non-related but what RME do you use in Ubuntu? I need to purchase a soundcard compatible with Linux (since my Motu U.mk3 is a pain...) and looking for ideas... :) The ideal card would use USB2.0 and have a minimum of 4 in + 4 out, low latency, ASIO on Windows, and Linux support - the price is the tough part... I really wish that MOTU would consider opening drivers for Linux...bastards.. the card is really good and has internal DSP with great sound results in my consideration. thanks if you can share some thoughs about your soundcard+linux setup, Pedro On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 6:19 PM, Pedro Lopes <pedro.lopes(a)ist.utl.pt> wrote: Hyperthreading can be disabled - I never tryed it myself - but its in BIOS advanced options for most computers/motherboards I've seen. Depending on the situation that can be either good of bad, If you only run one intensive cpu program (i.e.: one instance of PD) is good to give a full cpu to it, but if you run for instance Renoise (which for me is cpu intensive) and Pd, disabling hyperthreading will result in even more buffer glitch. I think some game folks used to disable hyperthreading in intel's p4 and get better rates than with it turned on, just to serve as a mere example - but then again Software Engineers would argue that this is just a matter of how threaded the programs are, and how they make good use of that. Best regards, Pedro On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 6:08 PM, Ingo Scherzinger <ingo(a)miamiwave.com> wrote: Looks like there are some problems with the soundcard drivers. I'm running very heavy patches with 3 ms. Both on Windows XP and Ubuntu. Audio and MIDI. However, on Windows I am using a RME HDSP card which has very good ASIO drivers. Don't forget to set system options to "background tasks" (very important!). I also noticed that in general Intel CPUs are pretty bad for Pd since they use hyperthreading which makes Pd see two CPUs and uses only 50% of one core. AMDs are twice as efficient because Pd uses the entire core. Ingo > cyrille henry wrote: > > but since you don't like this, you should : in pd / startup add in > > "startup flags" : > > -noaudio -audiobuf 0 -mididev 3 > > than : "save all setting" and it should work for next reboot... > > > > That's fine but what if you want to trigger sound with the MIDI input? > I've been trying some settings and find that if I set the delay less > than 100ms the MIDI delay goes up to about 500ms, if it works at all. > > I usually only use Pd on WinXp to generate background tracks since the > latency is so awful compared to linux. > > Martin _______________________________________________ Pd-list(a)iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> <http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Pedro Lopes contacto: jazz(a)radiozero.pt website: <http://web.ist.utl.pt/Pedro.Lopes> http://web.ist.utl.pt/Pedro.Lopes -- Pedro Lopes contacto: jazz(a)radiozero.pt website: <http://web.ist.utl.pt/Pedro.Lopes> http://web.ist.utl.pt/Pedro.Lopes

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Re: [PD] MIDI In-to-Out Latency
by Ingo Scherzinger 06 Jun '10

06 Jun '10

Looks like there are some problems with the soundcard drivers. I'm running very heavy patches with 3 ms. Both on Windows XP and Ubuntu. Audio and MIDI. However, on Windows I am using a RME HDSP card which has very good ASIO drivers. Don't forget to set system options to "background tasks" (very important!). I also noticed that in general Intel CPUs are pretty bad for Pd since they use hyperthreading which makes Pd see two CPUs and uses only 50% of one core. AMDs are twice as efficient because Pd uses the entire core. Ingo > cyrille henry wrote: > > but since you don't like this, you should : in pd / startup > > add in "startup flags" : > > -noaudio -audiobuf 0 -mididev 3 > > than : "save all setting" and it should work for next reboot... > > > > That's fine but what if you want to trigger sound with the MIDI input? > I've been trying some settings and find that if I set the delay less > than 100ms the MIDI delay goes up to about 500ms, if it works at all. > > I usually only use Pd on WinXp to generate background tracks since the > latency is so awful compared to linux. > > Martin

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MIDI In-to-Out Latency
by Jim Aikin 06 Jun '10

06 Jun '10

I'm running 0.41.4 Extended on a 64-bit Windows 7 system. I've installed MIDI Yoke to route incoming MIDI from my keyboard through Pd and thence to Cubase 5.1. What I'm finding is that with the simplest possible notein-to-noteout patch, Pd's MIDI throughput latency is very consistently on the order of 100ms -- plainly unacceptable for real-time performance. Needless to say, Cubase is using ASIO, and has no problem producing low-latency MIDI response when I use a direct MIDI input. The sluggish response is clearly due to Pd. Also, it's consistent whether Pd's patch window is in or out of edit mode. To test whether MIDI Yoke might be the culprit, I opened MIDI-Ox and routed the physical MIDI input to a MIDI Yoke channel. The latency was maybe a tiny bit greater than via a direct routing into Cubase (maybe), but it was much, much less than with Pd. The section in the Pd manual on scheduling doesn't mention MIDI latency at all; it's strictly about audio DSP load. I can't find anything else in the manual that seems even faintly relevant. I did find (somewhere ... on the wiki?) a mention that the timing of metro would be improved if I ran with the command line pd -noaudio, so I opened a Command Prompt and tried that. It didn't change anything. It seems very odd to me that Pd can handle audio streams without glitching, yet it can't process three bytes of MIDI data in less than 100ms. Is this user error on my part? Can anyone suggest how I can reduce or eliminate the delay? Thanks for any tips! --Jim Aikin

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arduino and digital outputs
by Andres Ferrari 05 Jun '10

05 Jun '10

hello,When I use the abstraction [arduino] or [comport] object the numbers of the digital outputs (pins) of the arduino hardware don't match with the output's numbers of the patch. for example, when i send 1 to digital output "12" from puredata the led connected to digital out 12 don't turn on but ...but turn on in digital out "14"... only works pins from 10- 13 but 0- 9 dont't work. When I've tested from the arduino's software with a sketch there aren't any problem, all works fine. Is it a [comport]r or "Firmata" problem? I have osx 10.5 and arduino mega. Any suggestions?.....thanks a lot!!! Andrés Ferrari G. http://www.myspace.com/anfex

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Re: [PD] SSSAD Source?
by Ryan Trigg 05 Jun '10

05 Jun '10

> > On Fri, Jun 04, 2010 at 02:28:30AM -0700, Ryan Trigg wrote: > > I'm currently interested in testing out the sssad abstractions to see if > > they'll be useful for my needs. Unfortunately the site where they're > > normally found doesn't seem to be working: > > > > http://mccormick.cx/viewcvs/s-abstractions.tar.gz?root=svn&view=tar > > > > Maybe it's just down temporarily, but does anyone know another source in > the > > meantime? Thanks! > > If's it just sssad.pd you're interested in: sssad's official home is the > sourceforge subversion. (Or check out the rjlib from > http://github.com/rjdj/rjlib/ it includes a copy called "u_sssad.pd" > > Ciao > -- > Frank > Frank, thanks for the reply, but despite being quite apt at programming in Pd, I don't even know the first thing about real programming and dealing with source code. Is there an easy way to turn source code into a Pd object? P.S. I guess when I said "source" I meant a location on the internet where I could click to download the object then start using it instantly. Cheers, Ryan

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Megapolis Festival Documentation/ Education with Pd
by patrick mcnameeking 05 Jun '10

05 Jun '10

Hello List - I gave a workshop on using Pd at this year's Megapolis Audio Festival in Baltimore, MD. I created a patch that was meant to be used as a launch-pad to get people patching as quickly as possible. This is my first attempt at doing something like this, but I would really like to further the idea of creating self-contained introductory patches that get people excited about Pd. I think that this could be a great tool for one-day workshops in schools or at conferences where people have the interest in, but not necessarily the background in sound and/or programming. My idea with this patch was to have some examples of different ways to make sound, an easily accessible reference chart, and then a sub-patch containing a whole bunch of ready-made objects for people to copy/paste and string together. The hope was that eventually people would break down the objects I created in order to figure out their inner workings. Some of that started to happen at Megapolis but the workshop was fairly short and we had covered a lot of material. Feedback on the patch as well as ideas on this type of workshop would be greatly appreciated! Pat http://megapolisfestival.org/ -- 'Given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow.'

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CW_binaural~ for Mac OS?
by Julian Villegas 05 Jun '10

05 Jun '10

Hi list, does anybody have managed to port this object to Mac? if so, I'd like to use it. if not, where can I find the source code, I'd like to give it a try. Have a nice weekend. Julian Villegas, Ph.D. http://julovi.net Me pregunto de un modo pensativo Que significa ser Colombiano? No se le respondi. Es un acto de fe JLB.

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[PD-announce] PD-aUdiO noish vs automata cdr
by oskoff lovich 04 Jun '10

04 Jun '10

NOISH~ vs AUTÓMATA cdr nº205 H.A.K. Lo-Fi RECORD Hello list! a new cdr of noish and also <freeDownload> enjoy here >> <http://hakrecords.blogspot.com/> <http://hakrecords.blogspot.com/2010/05/n205-noish-vs-automata.html> noish~ vs automata Improvisación con autómata Live at Piksel Bergen Norway 2009 by noish~ Software : Pure data, Ardour, Ubuntu Infos + code : http://noconventions.mobi/noish/ about the automata :::::: Automata_Sonoro_v001 (generative sound machina) is a software programmed in Pure Data for generating real-time sound compositions. It creates compositions from 7 small sound seeds (samples of 5-15 seconds) with which it generates 7 files of 1 min, to be with those who play after, transforming and mixing them iteratively in a mechanical evolution, growth and deterioration. Its based on the Fractal model and somehow with more conceptual distance also inspired by the work of Alvin Lucier "I'm sitting in a room" 1969. All of this does not chase to carry out strictly fractal music, but born of an interest to know and experiment with these math-concepts and strategies looking for a king of organic unpredicatability, noncontrol and chaos with which creatively play during the live perfomance. salut!! oscar martin -- >>>http://noconventions.mobi/noish _______________________________________________ Pd-announce mailing list Pd-announce(a)iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce

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Re: [PD] Megapolis Festival Documentation/ Education with Pd
by patko 04 Jun '10

04 Jun '10

Patrice Colet - 06 32 66 03 57 ----- "patrick mcnameeking" <pmcnameeking(a)gmail.com> a écrit : > in Baltimore, MD. I created a patch that was meant to be used as a > launch-pad to get people patching as quickly as possible. very good, thank you.

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workflow
by tim vets 04 Jun '10

04 Jun '10

I just had this little idea that could improve my patching workflow: I don't know if anyone would care, but here it is: when doing ctrl+1 to create an object box, then changing your mind and typing nothing in it, but doing backspace deletes the created object immediately... so that you don't have to click outside the empty object to finalize it, select it again by dragging the 'lasso' over it to do backspace to remove it... as it is now, backspace in an empty object does nothing, so i guess it could be used for something? gr, Tim

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Pd-list June 2010