Pd-list December 2007

pd-list@lists.iem.at

129 participants
239 discussions

first working [sql_query]
by Hans-Christoph Steiner 27 Dec '07

27 Dec '07

Hey, I got my first sketch of the [sql_query] object working. It should be in tomorrow's nightly build in my grab bag "hcs" library. Or it's in CVS: http://pure-data.cvs.sourceforge.net/pure-data/externals/hcs/sql_query.c .hc ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- You can't steal a gift. Bird gave the world his music, and if you can hear it, you can have it. - Dizzy Gillespie

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Re: [PD] complex metronomes sequencing problem (Frank Barknecht)
by Libero Mureddu 27 Dec '07

27 Dec '07

Thanks it worked (about the RTC-lib)! I have another question about your ioi-sequencer (very nice indeed!), my problem is that I would like to have a possibility to move forward (or backward) in time, especially if I give as messages value as [1.6( and [1.7( respectively: with the sequence you put, is quite easy to calculate when the pattern obtained is going to repeat, and then work with it compositionally. But with the "phasing" value that I want to use, the whole created pattern is very long in time, and I still would like to have a precise control into it. What I really like in your example is the possibility to send messages of any length on the fly, but how could I then have a master tempo counter (if it is what it is required) and still have this flexibility? Some suggestions? Thanks, Libero Hallo, Libero Mureddu hat gesagt: // Libero Mureddu wrote: > I have a question about how to install the RTC library on MacOs Pd-extended: > I made a folder called "my-pd-libraries" and added to the pd path (I > do this always with max, so it's easy for me to know which libraries I > have installed), I also put "rtc" in the "preferences->startup". > Unfortunately now the pd-window shows only the loading of "GEM" at > startup, the RTC seems to work, but the other libraries are not > loaded. Which is the right way to install it? It would be nice also to > have access to other libraries from the pd-browser; is there a way to > do that? The RTC-library is not a compiled library like Gem, but a collection of Pd patches. So you just add the "rtc" directory to your Pd path and that's it. Try to create a "RTC-Overview" object for the overview. Several objects are still missing, but most objects should create and work. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__

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Re: [PD] complex metronomes sequencing problem
by Libero Mureddu 27 Dec '07

27 Dec '07

Thanks Frank, in fact I started already to study some other examples of yours (the list-rhythm one posted on this list) and I was thinking to look at some list stuff. I will soon look your example, thanks a lot. I have a question about how to install the RTC library on MacOs Pd-extended: I made a folder called "my-pd-libraries" and added to the pd path (I do this always with max, so it's easy for me to know which libraries I have installed), I also put "rtc" in the "preferences->startup". Unfortunately now the pd-window shows only the loading of "GEM" at startup, the RTC seems to work, but the other libraries are not loaded. Which is the right way to install it? It would be nice also to have access to other libraries from the pd-browser; is there a way to do that? btw, thanks a lot for porting the RTC-library to pd! Libero Message: 3 Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 20:01:10 +0100 From: Frank Barknecht <fbar(a)footils.org> Subject: Re: [PD] complex metronomes sequencing problem To: pd-list(a)iem.at Message-ID: <20071226190110.GG5459(a)fliwatut.scifi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hallo, Libero Mureddu hat gesagt: // Libero Mureddu wrote: > thanks for your message, it clarified a lot my problem. > In fact I need a "time aware" synchronous system, could you send a > basic example of that? I can guess that I need a metro plus counter > and different [mod]s, but I dont get how to use [moses] and [change] > for that. > > In another attempt that I did, I made a select with many arguments, > each one representing a "playing point". Unfortunately it seems > impossible to send a list of arguments as message and set dynamically > all the values for set (at least I was unable to do that). > [multiselect] that should do that is broken. > > Do you have an example of the sample timing based idea that you > mentioned? In fact, the compositions I'm working on are not longer > than 4-5 minutes. The signal based approach Andy mentioned is in fact a very old one: Old voltage controlled analog synthesizers were sequenced like that. Miller's book has a little chapter on that "Audio signals as control" at http://crca.ucsd.edu/~msp/techniques/latest/book-html/node47.html Its advantage is that smooth tempo changes are possible. A disadvantage is, that syncing is a bit tricky because phasor~'s phase inlet is not sample accurate, but operates on block sizes. And you need to take great care when converting from control messages to signals, so often you're tied to do signal sequencing all the time. Another approach besides constant metro bangs and a global counter is working with so called inter onset times. IOIs are the delay times between two events. If the IOI between two events is 0, they happen at the same time, if it is > 0, one comes first, the other later. [qlist] works with IOIs but you can also build chains of IOIs yourself using [delay] or [pipe]. With IOIs you can build irregular metros. The basic idiom there is to "drip" or "serialize" a list of IOIs, either using [list-drip] from [list]-abs or manually using variations of the idiom in list-help.pd. So assuming you have an IOI-list like this: "2 2 1 2 2 2 1", where each number is the IOI in beats. Drip this list one by one into a [* 200]--[delay] where 200 is your beat length, and feed back the delay to list-drip. You get a nice little pattern, which you also can change through simple messages. Then the nice things come with the fact, that you can do various list operations on the lists you use as patterns, like reversing them of selecting random elements. A lot of this stuff is already implemented in the Rhythm abstractions of the Realtime Composition Library (RTC-lib). IOI is called "entry delay" (ED) time there, but it's the same concept. See attached patch for a simple example. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__

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Question about SQL Placeholder Implementation
by Mike McGonagle 26 Dec '07

26 Dec '07

Hello all, To give you an update on what is happening, I think I will have something to post tomorrow or the next day. I did diverge from the Object Model discussed, but that was because I couldn't quite figure out where Hans was outputting the result sets. It also may turn out to be a good thing, as it makes it possible to create the Server Object in any window, and the query objects can be in any other window, and they will still connect up (without patching). I like this as each query object can be isolated within its own subpatch, and you don't have to build additional objects just to connect to the server. So, I have not quite implemented the Placeholder version of inputting the SQL, and from reading some more about SQL injection, it sounds like it would be a good idea if we were to have these inlets created using the specific type of data to be inserted. This is also probably going to be required, as the database packages require the binding of a particular data type into these placeholders. So, we are going to need a means of defining these types at creation time. [query <srv_id> insert into mytable (id, name, token) values (?f,'?s','?s')] In this example, the first placeholder would expect a Float, with the next two expecting a Symbol (just think of this as a variation on the printf string substitutions). I am not quite sure if I remember correctly, but it sounded like Hans wants to set these inlets to be list inlets, but considering that the databases need to know the specific data types for each placeholder, I don't think this would be practical. Also, as the servers I have looked at so far, would expect this string in the form of "insert into mytable (id, name, token) values (?, '?', '?')" The external would be required to strip out the data type character. Also, from reading these things ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL_injection), it was stated that most database engines only allow the sending of a single SQL statement. This is done so that SQL injection can't be used to create additional statements that are embedded within a Placeholder replacement. So, this means that I won't get my multiple statement buffer. (Also, from some tests that I have done, there doesn't have to be a ';' terminating the statement, as the server appears to assume these things. Ok, so I am a little all over the board on this, but if you could focus on the stuff on the Placeholder things, as that is pretty much still to be implemented, that would be great. Thanks, Mike

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symbolatom: why does it not allow to type spaces?
by Roman Haefeli 26 Dec '07

26 Dec '07

hi why does the symbolatom not allow the user to enter spaces? or in other words: why is there a restriction, if it can be circumvented by using [makefilename]? people do it anyway, so why prohibit it in the first place? roman ___________________________________________________________ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de

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creating external on windows (again)
by altern 26 Dec '07

26 Dec '07

hi i was asking about creating an external on windows few weeks ago, here i am again, now i have detailed info about the error the engineer from my uni is getting. He says he is using microsoft dev estydio 6.0 and pd.lib library to try to compile the "hello world" example. The source code is #include <m_pd.h> static t_class *helloworld_class; typedef struct _helloworld { t_object x_obj; } t_helloworld; void helloworld_bang(t_helloworld *x) { post("Hello world !!"); } void *helloworld_new(void) { t_helloworld *x = (t_helloworld *)pd_new(helloworld_class); return (void *)x; } void helloworld_setup(void) { helloworld_class = class_new(gensym("helloworld"), (t_newmethod)helloworld_new, 0, sizeof(t_helloworld), CLASS_DEFAULT,(t_atomtype)0); // He tenido que hacer este para que el compilador no me de error class_addbang(helloworld_class, helloworld_bang); } he does not get error but some warnings when compiling: compiling... hello.cpp C:\Archivos de programa\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\m_pd.h(71) : warning C4091: 'extern ' : ignored on left of 'struct _array' when no variable is declared C:\Archivos de programa\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\m_pd.h(141) : warning C4091: 'extern ' : ignored on left of 'struct _class' when no variable is declared C:\Archivos de programa\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\m_pd.h(144) : warning C4091: 'extern ' : ignored on left of 'struct _outlet' when no variable is declared C:\Archivos de programa\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\m_pd.h(147) : warning C4091: 'extern ' : ignored on left of 'struct _inlet' when no variable is declared C:\Archivos de programa\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\m_pd.h(150) : warning C4091: 'extern ' : ignored on left of 'struct _binbuf' when no variable is declared C:\Archivos de programa\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\m_pd.h(153) : warning C4091: 'extern ' : ignored on left of 'struct _clock' when no variable is declared C:\Archivos de programa\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\m_pd.h(156) : warning C4091: 'extern ' : ignored on left of 'struct _outconnect' when no variable is declared C:\Archivos de programa\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\m_pd.h(159) : warning C4091: 'extern ' : ignored on left of 'struct _glist' when no variable is declared C:\Archivos de programa\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\m_pd.h(381) : warning C4091: 'extern ' : ignored on left of 'struct _widgetbehavior' when no variable is declared C:\Archivos de programa\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\m_pd.h(384) : warning C4091: 'extern ' : ignored on left of 'struct _parentwidgetbehavior' when no variable is declared C:\Archivos de programa\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\m_pd.h(571) : warning C4091: 'extern ' : ignored on left of 'struct _garray' when no variable is declared Linking... LINK : warning LNK4089: all references to "pd.dll" discarded by /OPT:REF helloworld.dll - 0 error(s), 12 warning(s) He is worroed about this warning LINK : warning LNK4089: all references to "pd.dll" discarded by /OPT:REF q He does not know what that means Once the dll is created he places it in the right location, tries to instantiate it on pd and he gets : helloworld ... couldn't create thats all info I could get from him, thanks for any help. enrike

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Question on Arduino and PD
by Mike McGonagle 26 Dec '07

26 Dec '07

I was wondering if there is anyone who is keeping a list of various projects that create Arduino devices that link up with PD? I would be curious to see what others have done, and if they would be willing to share the "blueprints" for the devices they have built. Thanks, Mike

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GEM nightly issue with Pd version 0.40.3.extended-20071224
by vade 26 Dec '07

26 Dec '07

Using pix_movie on OS X 10.5.1 Quicktime 7.3 / Intel results in weird YUV cruft on the rendered output, but it alternates between proper rendering and the weird YUV frame, back and forth and back and forth at the regular framerate. Also, within the helpfile: mode message does not work (console states pix_movieDarwin: no method for 'mode'), same for client_storage. How does one set the texture unit for pix_movie ? a texunit message would be nice. Thanks,

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Pd + asterisk?
by Hans-Christoph Steiner 26 Dec '07

26 Dec '07

Hey all, I just met the development team of Asterisk at a talk they gave. For those who don't know it, it's free software for building complete phone systems, including voicemail, touch tone menus, voice prompts, voice recogniztion integration, etc. It's very cool software, it allows you to do whatever you want with phones. Anyway, I was thinking that Pd and Asterisk would be a very natural pair, so I am wondering whether anyone has tried using the two together. http://asterisk.org/ .hc ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- "[W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from scarcity." -John Gilmore

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Re: [PD] complex metronomes sequencing problem
by Libero Mureddu 26 Dec '07

26 Dec '07

Hi Andy, thanks for your message, it clarified a lot my problem. In fact I need a "time aware" synchronous system, could you send a basic example of that? I can guess that I need a metro plus counter and different [mod]s, but I dont get how to use [moses] and [change] for that. In another attempt that I did, I made a select with many arguments, each one representing a "playing point". Unfortunately it seems impossible to send a list of arguments as message and set dynamically all the values for set (at least I was unable to do that). [multiselect] that should do that is broken. Do you have an example of the sample timing based idea that you mentioned? In fact, the compositions I'm working on are not longer than 4-5 minutes. Thanks Libero > From: Andy Farnell <padawan12(a)obiwannabe.co.uk> > Subject: Re: [PD] complex metronomes sequencing problem > To: pd-list(a)iem.at > Message-ID: <20071223205532.01f5fcb3.padawan12(a)obiwannabe.co.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > > > If you have two or more independent metronomes that form a polyrhythmic > relationship then stopping them will lose the relationship. Each will > begin its timing series from the same "zero point". > > A synchronous system is probably better if you want to start and stop > the composition at arbitrary points and have it resume. > > The general problem with a synchronous system is that the smallest timing > resolution is the division of the master clock at all points. > > But there are also two quite distinct approaches to synchronous sequencers in > Pd having different properties. > > One is based on bangs and built from many subsystems that each hold their own > state. These "state aware" subsequences use a local counter and a [select] > object. The advantage here is that if you stop the master bang message source, > each will remain in it's last state until new bangs start to flow. The > disadvantage is that no part of the system is "time aware", so you cannot > jump forwards or backwards a number of beats to see what the sequence is > like without explicitly going through all steps. > > The second kind is "time aware". Instead of sending bangs you send float > messages which represent the current time. You can use combinations of > [moses], [mod], [change] and simple arithmetic to make subsystems behave > in different ways. You can jump forwards, backwards or pause the sequence > in any way you like. > > If you want sample accurate timing you can try an interesting approach that > Chun Lee and I have both experimented with, composition entirely in the > signal domain. You start with a very slow [phasor~] or [vline~] and calculate > all sequence timings using a mixture of [wrap~], [rpole~]/[rzero~] and > [min~]/[max~] to constrain, integrate or differentiate the timebase. This has > some really nice features, like being able to warp the timebase and get swings > or extremely smooth tempo changes. You can also warp parts independently and > have them converge on some point in the future with sample accuracy (like > spinning back a sample table and having it land exactly on the beat... which > you cannot do in any other software afaik). The disadvantage to this is that > you're limited to songs of less than about 5 mins because of rounding errors. > > > > > > On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 21:08:08 +0100 > "Libero Mureddu" <libero.mureddu(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hello to everybody! > > > > I have a problem and I'd need that someone could point me at least to > > the right approach to solve it. > > > > > > Let's say I have three simple metronomes running, built with metro. > > Their speed is 1000 1001 and 1002 ms (in my case I have 88 of them, > > running at different speeds). > > I'd like to have the possibility to: > > > > a) keep the proportion constant between them and change the global > > tempo (i.e. 100, 100.1, 100.2 etc) > > b) I'd like to stop and restore the metros with their right time > > differences: if they start at the same time (from the same bang), they > > create a particular net of rhythms, that I'd like to control, analyze > > and change. I'd like to be able to stop them at a certain point and > > restart from another but keeping the same rhythmic combination. > > > > I know that this exist and is called sequencer :-) > > But I want to control this using pd but I don't know really how to do > > it, and also this is the simplest example: some parts could start at a > > certain point a change towards a different tempo in a certain time, > > having different dynamic according to a particular pattern etc. etc. > > So I think pd would a good platform to implement this. > > > > I was thinking to have a global metro running at 1 ms speed with a > > counter that reads many different arrays: the first of 1000 values > > (the first "1" and the other values "0"), the second of 1001 values > > and the third 1002 values and so on. > > > > But this works if I decide in advance the metros speed and leave it > > fixed, but I want to be able to modify the speed and still being able > > to restart, stop etc. > > Other idea was to have many qlists, but again, a note approach would > > give the problem of sync between the different notes. > > > > Any help appreciated! > > > > Thanks, best regards and > > > > Merry Christmas! > > > > Libero > > > > -- > > Libero Mureddu > > Vanha Viertotie, 21 as 417 > > 00350 Helsinki > > Finland > > http://webusers.siba.fi/~limuredd/ > > http://www.myspace.com/liberomureddu > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PD-list(a)iem.at mailing list > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > -- > Use the source > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > PD-list mailing list > PD-list(a)iem.at > to manage your subscription (including un-subscription) see > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > End of PD-list Digest, Vol 33, Issue 163 > **************************************** > -- Libero Mureddu Vanha Viertotie, 21 as 417 00350 Helsinki Finland http://webusers.siba.fi/~limuredd/ http://www.myspace.com/liberomureddu

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Pd-list December 2007