about the "easy to understand" Max/MSP - thing:
i have the impression that the vast majority of people using Max/Msp just for the use of other people's patches. they would never think of entering the "editing - modus" themselves. they would shit their pants. so the argument about it's practical and market- conform shape is not convincing
2nd, i made the experience that with a little effort in tidying your work up and packing all the necessary stuff in, you can produce "user-only"-works with PD as well, or even better. i gave some of mine to friends who are strictly users, and all worked without any problem, because (so much for "easier" installation"...) no installation process is needed.
just my 2 cents
oliver
13.02.2003 12:56:41, "mark" mark@junklight.com wrote:
Unix users don't mind 'apt-get install pd'. Windows users in general will get put out by anything other than setup.exe.
Installing externals requires command lines or editing batch files
- again unacceptable to a lot of users.
I am not saying that PD is not useable to its current users - what it is not is a PRODUCT. which is what would be needed to broaden its user base...
cheers
mark
-----Original Message----- From: pd-list-admin@iem.kug.ac.at [mailto:pd-list-admin@iem.kug.ac.at] On Behalf Of delire Sent: 13 February 2003 21:51 To: pd-list@iem.kug.ac.at Subject: Re: [PD] PD usability
errm, i believe the last time i installed pd was with the gruellingly challenging command:
'apt-get install pd'
for the similarly terrifying, strategically impossible debian distribution ;)
again, a progress bar does not make installation 'easier' only more comforting. this is the question here. anyway, i tend to distrust operating systems that allow me to install software with a double click.
yesterday a friend couldn't stop telling me "just how easy" using the planetCCRMA system was [30 free applications fresh from the web, one command]. the time it took him to install these applications is about the same amount of time [i hear] it takes to install Logic.
i understand however installing software under windows or macOSX is often more difficult.
julian
On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 22:59:41 -0000 "mark" mark@junklight.com wrote:
//If it where me that wanted to make PD more "producty" (technical //term that :-) - and its not - I already have enough joy with this //at work with users/support/testing/load testing/a development //team/a dept. head/etc. - Then I would try to establish a small group //of volunteers to do the work. I am sure the rest of the community //would support such an effort if it didn't mean much work on their //part. // //The key areas I see as being vital are; // //installer - not always an easy job 'cos of the platform thing (and the
//quality of the tools). As a guide I have had a team member put in //about 6 man months over the last two years on our installer. // //Config - midi/audio selection would have to be a preferences //dialog for the more casual user. I guess this would have implications //on how PD starts up too. // //GUI - you can argue its fine until you are blue in the face - people //are used to and expect pretty interfaces - if you want //minimalist/functional //then it needs to be *designer* minimalist functional (think Peter //Saville/factory //records). Its just the way it goes. // //Docs - there needs to be a reference manual. Again you can argue //about it all you like - not having one means that the beginner has to //do a lot more work to get into the product. // //Support - who is going to provide support to people. What happens when //the mailing list is full of people going - "it does't work on my //pc..why?" or //"I NEED feature X..why can't you make it do that" // //Don't get me wrong - PD is just great as it is as far as I am concerned //- what //I am talking about is making it accessible to a wider audience. It //will grow larger as time goes by and by having a high level of knowledge //needed for entry we make life easier for ourselves. // //Again - not trying to pour water on ideas but if you want to make PD //accessible to a wider audience you need to consider what is involved // //cheers // //mark // // // //> -----Original Message----- //> From: pd-list-admin@iem.kug.ac.at //> [mailto:pd-list-admin@iem.kug.ac.at] On Behalf Of Marc Lavallée //> Sent: 12 February 2003 22:37 //> To: 'pd-list' //> Subject: RE: [PD] PD usability //> //> //> Le mer 12/02/2003 à 16:59, mark a écrit : //> //> > Sorry to be blunt about this but I did say I had my day job hat on. //> > :-) //> //> I actually resigned from a well paid job in a university //> center because I was unable to bring artists to use free //> software and be more responsible. I had to manage a bunch of //> projects, buy computers and softwares, and program "art". It //> was a stupid and impossible mandate, because artists //> (especially students) must do their own stuff, not always //> rely on programmers to hold the mouse for them. Of course, //> most artists were asking for Macs/Max/MSP/Jitter, leaving //> little money for anything else, including humain brain juice. //> //> So for me, a "better" PD would have been cool. I won't accept //> such a job unless artists agrees to change their tools and //> their attitude toward technology. But we need to help them a //> little bit, or I might never work with them again. //> //> -- //> Marc //> //> _______________________________________________ //> PD-list mailing list //> PD-list@iem.kug.ac.at //http://iem.kug.ac.at/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pd-list // // //_______________________________________________ //PD-list mailing list //PD-list@iem.kug.ac.at //http://iem.kug.ac.at/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pd-list // //
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