I don't want to get rid of the patches. What I want is a reference book I can browse through looking for ideas etc. *as well*. So basically assuming that authors will write help patches then it needs to be generated from those. PDF will look the same (but won't work but could be printed for example).
cheers
mark
-----Original Message----- From: Matthew Nish-Lapidus [mailto:mattn-l@rogers.com] Sent: 12 February 2003 23:24 To: mark; 'pd-list' Subject: Re: [PD] PD usability
i don't know if PDF is the best solution.. the best thing about good doc patches is that they're usable patches.. you can just copy parts of them to save time.
matt.
----- Original Message ----- From: "mark" mark@junklight.com To: "'Matthew Nish-Lapidus'" mattn-l@rogers.com; "'pd-list'" pd-list@iem.kug.ac.at Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 6:21 PM Subject: RE: [PD] PD usability
Indeed - this is something annoying me to. I want a reference manual. I'm working on two new externals and then I am going to look into this. There must be a way to autogenerate either the patches or reference pages. My ideal would be to take the patches and autocompile them into a PDF.
I will be reopening this debate in a week or two when I am ready to do something about it.
cheers
mark
-----Original Message----- From: pd-list-admin@iem.kug.ac.at
[mailto:pd-list-admin@iem.kug.ac.at]
On Behalf Of Matthew Nish-Lapidus Sent: 12 February 2003 23:13 To: 'pd-list' Subject: Re: [PD] PD usability
i would have to say the biggest issue that i have with PD is docs.
MAX's help files are amazing.. if PD had help files like that there would be a lot less difference between PD and MAX in the learning phase.matt.
----- Original Message ----- From: "mark" mark@junklight.com To: "'Marc Lavallée'" odradek@videotron.ca; "'pd-list'" pd-list@iem.kug.ac.at Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 5:59 PM Subject: RE: [PD] PD usability
If it where me that wanted to make PD more "producty"
(technical term
that :-) - and its not - I already have enough joy with
this at work
with users/support/testing/load testing/a development team/a dept. head/etc. - Then I would try to establish a small group of
volunteers
to do the work. I am sure the rest of the community would
support such
an effort if it didn't mean much work on their part.
The key areas I see as being vital are;
installer - not always an easy job 'cos of the platform
thing (and the
quality of the tools). As a guide I have had a team member put in about 6 man months over the last two years on our installer.
Config - midi/audio selection would have to be a preferences dialog for the more casual user. I guess this would have
implications on how
PD starts up too.
GUI - you can argue its fine until you are blue in the face
- people
are used to and expect pretty interfaces - if you want minimalist/functional then it needs to be *designer* minimalist functional (think Peter Saville/factory records). Its just
the way it
goes.
Docs - there needs to be a reference manual. Again you can
argue about
it all you like - not having one means that the beginner
has to do a
lot more work to get into the product.
Support - who is going to provide support to people. What
happens when
the mailing list is full of people going - "it does't work on my pc..why?" or "I NEED feature X..why can't you make it do that"
Don't get me wrong - PD is just great as it is as far as I am concerned
- what
I am talking about is making it accessible to a wider audience. It will grow larger as time goes by and by having a high level of knowledge needed for entry we make life easier for ourselves.
Again - not trying to pour water on ideas but if you want
to make PD
accessible to a wider audience you need to consider what is involved
cheers
mark
-----Original Message----- From: pd-list-admin@iem.kug.ac.at
[mailto:pd-list-admin@iem.kug.ac.at]
On Behalf Of Marc Lavallée Sent: 12 February 2003 22:37 To: 'pd-list' Subject: RE: [PD] PD usability
Le mer 12/02/2003 à 16:59, mark a écrit :
Sorry to be blunt about this but I did say I had my day
job hat on.
:-)
I actually resigned from a well paid job in a university center because I was unable to bring artists to use free software
and be more
responsible. I had to manage a bunch of projects, buy computers and softwares, and program "art". It was a stupid and
impossible mandate,
because artists (especially students) must do their own stuff, not always rely on programmers to hold the mouse for them. Of
course, most
artists were asking for Macs/Max/MSP/Jitter, leaving little
money for
anything else, including humain brain juice.
So for me, a "better" PD would have been cool. I won't
accept such a
job unless artists agrees to change their tools and their attitude toward technology. But we need to help them a little bit,
or I might
never work with them again.
-- Marc
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