hi miller, some strange behaviour of pd happen in test14 for win2k. the positions of subwindows are not stored anymore (only the size is saved). they always open at the top left position. also the openpanel doesnot work as is should. i think the bang-message is not triggered when it is connected to the openpanel-object. maybe there are more problems in this connection, but that was what i detected. (both things are ok in test11). marius.