i don't think the list would have to be a lot friendlier, and splitting things into beginners and überusers would not make me happy. i've been lurking on the list for a while now, learning lots, enjoying the different angles, and happily skipping things that are too far over my head. also, by reading about topics of different kinds and levels, i'm getting a good feeling for where my own limits are, what i want to learn and what i'd rather leave to other people etc. so there, my two pennies as an absolute beginner who's enjoying the list. on to the real reason for my post.
did anything happen to the pan~ object? i upgraded to pd-0.39.2-extended-test5 a little while ago (if i'm correct this is the latest stable version, even though i got it from hcs' site rather than from www.puredata.org?), and pan~ doesn't create. i suppose i could drag it into the new app package? where does it reside in the old one? the os X search system isn't very helpful, it just doesn't show. because it's in the package?
then i was wondering whether there is a way to add more startup paths without using the -path flag, simply to keep things a bit tidy. i had some trouble adding paths to the flag, but now that i'm trying to reproduce the problem so i can quote the message i got in the pd window, it all seems to work fine.
re the tutorials (hcs and others): i'm trying to learn pd by going through msp's examples, and some other tutorials. not very systematically, as i find i've forgotten specific info when i need it. also, there seems to be quite a jump between learning about printing "hello world" and trying to get some musical results. i try to learn by looking at other patches, thinking lots, and finding / using the tutorials that will explain what i need. which usually gets me to learn about other things too. kind of circular learning (?). i find other people's patches very helpful and inspiring, but the idea of including The Patch with the distribution doesn't sound appealing at all. the reason why i'm attracted to pd is to figure out what i want and then how to get that. if i want to start producing music straight away, i'll get ableton live (which is of course a useful and inspiring application) or sth like that.
robbert