MB > Ok, but I don't think that the "_" character is so distinctive. I mean,
it's enough to distinguish unambiguously, but it's still looks pretty close to a space, and it doesn't seem to have the kind of appeal to it[...]
We used "!" (an upside down "i" that stands for interface) before instead of "_" but we had to continuously escape it in command lines and scripts. So we settled on "_" instead. Of course, we would have liked to use "#", but Gridflow's use of it is much better :)
MB > Ok, I don't particularly remember reading them back when they were posted.
Now that I read them I'd like to say that the part about namespaces is quite bad: if I make a more descriptive name for a class that is really a lot like [poil], it would be something that ends in "_poil". However this means that a prefix is added to the name. The same section says that prefixes are to be turned into geiger namespaces, that is, folders. Let's say that the folder is named "patate". But then I cannot use the original [poil] anymore in that folder because pd picks up the locally defined [patate/poil] as being poil itself, hiding the prefixless [poil] that I need. Therefore a prefix is required. Then I might call it patate/patate_poil.pd, but that's redundant, so I remove the folder so that it's just called [patate_poil], and then we're back to prefixes. However if pd wasn't doing that and if there wasn't [import] then the slash wouldn't be anything more than a tilted underscore. So what are those guidelines good for?
I have been using the pmdtl folder namespaces for a year now and have NEVER had a similar problem. I tried replicating the example in a practical context, but I cannot. This issue is a theoretical problem that never happens in a practical context. Also, this issue can only happen if you have abstractions that are not inside category folders (and this goes against the pdmtl folder architecture: all pdmtl abstractions require to be categorized). If you absolutely want to do this for absolutely no functionnal reason, simply prepend a "../" to the [poil] inside the [patate/poil].
You can even create an abstraction called [patate/counter] and instantiate a [counter] object in there and it will work correctly.
All abnormal abstractions will be renamed (thanks a lot for the work Mat :)
If you take a look at the pdmtl abstractions contents page ( http://wiki.dataflow.ws/PdMtlAbstractions/Contents ), you will see that all the abstraction names that contain two words are now separated by a "_".
MB > > The "synth" folder groups abstractions that are more like "complete"
"midi" instruments (or at least try to be). Think of the "generate" category as the building blocks for the "synth" category. If this still seems to confusing, please reply with an alternative.
All right then, I will probably move most of the stuff from [generate] to the [synth] category. The distinction is not clear enough.
MB > Why not put stuff outside of categories? (Does everything have to be in a
category?)
Yes, everything does have to be in a category. This constraint makes for an environment that is especially useful for newbies and resolves a lot of conflicts.
MB > I think that category names have to be figured out pretty quick if people
are expected to start using the names in backwards-compatible ways. Else you get into what is called "bit rot" - a program is not just the contents of source files, it's also a set of relationships with its environment, and especially, its direct dependencies.
I agree. I think we are almost there. We simply have to solve a few glitches.
MB > I don't know. We could have a head-scratching party in my apartment, if
you'd like some brainstorm about it. I didn't speak much when you made that presentation of pdmtl abstractions because that was my first exposure to it so I had to think about it a bit.
I would really appreciate that :)
T: You are obviously not using either of the official pdmtl abstractions help browsers ( hbrowser.pd or hpopup.pd) as they automatically exclude all files that they consider are not help files.
MB > I'm using /usr/bin/ls or the svn web interface. What's wrong with either?
I'm obviously not asking this as a simple user.
For newbies, the folder categorizing system really comes to life when using pdmtl's built in help browsers. See http://wiki.dataflow.ws/PdMtlAbstractions/Usage/Browsing I teach a lot of Max/Msp and the "new object" box is a godsend for them ( http://www.makingthings.com/teleo/products/documentation/teleo_user_guide/im... ). Browsing and selecting the right abstraction for the job is a lot simpler with this system.
By the way pdmtl's folder categorizing system is also compatible with Pd 0.4's help browsing system.
MB > Uh, my question actually is "why is _index.pd called an index?".
You are right. I will find a more proper name.
MB > I'd rather raise the issue before the [mapping] is even created.
A mapping category will not be created :)