Re: [PD] Best practice for abstractions with many parameters

13 Oct 2006

      Hi Jamie,
Nice to hear from you.  I've been having fun with a_grain, and I'm 
beginning to understand it a little better.
I've attached what I've done with it so far, which uses the 
no-wire/message method I described below.  I don't think this is always 
the best way to go about this (see discussion on this thread), but I'm 
finding it useful in this case, because it makes a complex patch with 
many inputs easier to read.  Also included is the test runner (derived 
from yours), which shows how the message sending objects (number boxes 
and toggles) send to prefix-tagged destinations in the a_grain 
abstraction (the prefix being passed to a_grain as its third argument).
I've only begun to "untangle" a_grain, as you can see.  But at least I 
can see what the various parts are doing at this point.  Very cool.

I've only included the two files I changed, by the way.  Anyone else 
wanting to actually try these changes needs to get the original folder from
http://www.puredata.org/Members/jb/a_grain%7E/view
then copy a_grain~.pd over its namesake, and add a_grainTest.pd to the 
folder and run it.
I'm enjoying a_grain and it's helping me understand granular synthesis à 
la PD; thank you for making it and putting it out there.
Phil Stone
UC Davis
Jamie Bullock wrote:
...
On Thu, 2006-10-12 at 11:24 -0700, Phil Stone wrote:
...
I've been playing with Jamie Bullock's 'a_grain' lately (see 
http://www.puredata.org/Members/jb/a_grain%7E/view ), and in order to 
understand it better, I've been refactoring it.
Great news!
...
A_grain has 14 inputs to control various parameters; my first approach 
to cleaning it up was to put all the inlets, in the correct order, at 
the top of the patch -- I then connected those inlets to 'send' objects 
with $0 variables, placing matching 'receive's close by where they are 
needed.  This really cleaned up the wiring quite a bit, and made it 
easier to "read".
Looking back at it I'm really glad I provided some documentation. The
patch is a complete mess!
...
Now it occurs to me that I could eliminate the inlets entirely, and just 
write to send/receive pairs directly (perhaps also passing in a "prefix" 
as an argument that is prepended to all receives inside the abstraction, 
which would allow multiple instantiations of the abstraction, with 
independent control of each).  At the UI-level patch, I could use named 
senders (from number boxes, sliders, whatever) just hovering nearby the 
a_grain abstraction; no wires, no mess.
The approach I am starting to use for all of my abstractions is to have
the first inlet, and first outlet for all control-rate data, and use
messages containing key/value tuples passed to [route] objects inside
the abstraction to pass data in. What I like about this that once
everything is connected up it is easy to see what parameters the data
coming into the abstraction correspond to. It is also possible to
implement a kind of pseudo-inheritance by nesting abstractions that
implement this approach.
Anyhow, I look forward to seeing the results of your refactoring. I
think it will inspire me to add some more features to [a_grain~] as per
the TODO...
best,
Jamie
...
I'm wondering what experienced PD architects consider the best practice 
here; if the second approach is better, I begin to question the 
advisability of wired inlets for more than two or three arguments.  The 
left-to-right ordering of them, along with the rats-nest wiring caused 
by high numbers of inputs, seem to argue against them.  The only 
downside I can see to the second method is that if it's not done neatly, 
i.e., the senders are placed indiscriminately and not necessarily near 
the abstraction they're sending to -- it could become very hard to 
understand/maintain the patch.
I'll be interested to hear other PD user's thoughts on this.
Phil Stone
UC Davis

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#X text 5 11 The two arguments to the a_grain~ abstraction give the
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Re: [PD] Best practice for abstractions with many parameters